capt_oats Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) I mean, I'd prefer to avoid finding out how we'd get on in the Championship altogether tbh. Along with others on here I'm one of the "never seen us relegated" (but have see us win the Scottish Cup) crowd and it's a nice group to be in IMO. I imagine it's one thing to be relegated because we're broadly shite but another to be relegated because we're obviously shite and didn't do anything about it. It'd be even more mind blowing if we chose not to do anything about it out of some sort of misplaced loyalty to an inexperienced manager who, as I type, is on a run of 1 league win in 15 and stands as having our 3rd worst win % since 1911. Let's not do that. On one hand I don't get Hammell decision to leave the relatively secure Academy role but at the same time I can see how you could lose the run of yourself and over commit - especially after winning the opening game against St Mirren. That said, it takes some amount of chutzpah to think "Yeah, I've no first team managerial experience but how hard can it be?" Edited February 5, 2023 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 43 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: See tbh, I'd be amazed if you can find a player in the league that will take responsibility on the field and do something other than what the manager has told them to, regardless of how daft or wrong they think it is. It's a selfish business. Aren't you confusing footballer with fishmonger? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get relegated either and would be binning Hammell now to try to avoid it whether we decide to go short or long-term with his replacement. I just don't think it'll definitely be the apocalyptic event some predict. It might be but doesn't have to be by any means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 I wasn't expecting him to be sacked on a Sunday but I sort of assumed ITK folk would be on by now saying he's as good as gone tomorrow. Like... this is not a fucking normal way to manage a football team you plan on remaining in charge of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RostokMcSpoons Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 We'd have been on his back even more if he'd left the team as it was, wouldn't we...? Most of those subs should've been the starters in my eyes. Maybe Hammy thought this was a tactical masterstroke, saving them up all as 'impact subs' when Aberdeen had run themselves out. (It wasn't, obvs) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, eliphas said: We absolutely cannot be accepting relegation. I genuinely think it will be the beginning of a long road down for us and a long long time out of the top flight. The whole romantic idea of going down, seeing some different grounds, crowds swelling I'm size is an absolute fantasy in my opinion. Funding will drop across the board, player quality will be worse, the academy will take a hit and be cut in places, the fans won't suddenly bump up WS subs to fund a quick return, we will be quickly on par with the majority of the championship clubs and become a Partick Thistle. That's the reality (albeit a little half glass empty I admit...) This is how I feel. I think it's really how we all feel but folk are giving it the bravado of "good away days" etc. It's a bit of a silver lining tbh but here are my issues. Over the last few years we've seen Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd, Killie all go down and back up. When they pick up wins their crowds all increased. We're not guaranteed to pick up wins with our team but even if we did out crowd doesn't get above 5k. We're gonna have to give it a go in that first season, overspending and willing to risk it. If we don't then get promoted we're screwed. I fear we really could become a Falkirk like team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 I don't think anyone is romanticising a season in the Championship at all, and I don't think anyone is looking forward to anything about it. I think people are coming from the angle of realising "this is happening", so can i find any sort of positive about it to try and keep me from chucking myself out a window. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Just now, Al B said: I don't think anyone is romanticising a season in the Championship at all, and I don't think anyone is looking forward to anything about it. I think people are coming from the angle of realising "this is happening", so can i find any sort of positive about it to try and keep me from chucking myself out a window. The Championship is a great league that receives a great deal more media attention than the Premiership. There has been more live Championship games on the BBC than there has been Premiership games this season. The notion that the Championship is a lesser league than the Premiership is pathetic IMO and has to stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 The 2nd tier is a shite slog of a division filled with players worse than you think, including at your own side. In saying that being involved in a genuine title challenge is more exciting than chasing Europe. Our season chasing Gretna remains the most enjoyable season ive seen as a Saints fan i think. What Dunfermline/Falkirk have done isnt easy to do, i wouldnt think youll get near that unless you replace Burrows with an absolute clown. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: The notion that the Championship is a lesser league than the Premiership is pathetic IMO and has to stop. It quite literally is a lesser league 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: It quite literally is a lesser league Why are Premiership teams competing to qualify for next season's Championship then? 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: I wasn't expecting him to be sacked on a Sunday but I sort of assumed ITK folk would be on by now saying he's as good as gone tomorrow. Like... this is not a fucking normal way to manage a football team you plan on remaining in charge of. I'd be surprised if he didn't get next week but out of curiosity I had a look at the runs preceding recent managers leaving and respective league positions: Alexander (sacked/mutual consent - 29th July 2022) (N/A previous season 5th) - 3 wins in 18 league games Robinson (resigned - 31st December 2020) (10th) - 0 wins in 8 league games McGhee (sacked - 28th February 2017) (10th) - 2 wins in 13 league games Baraclough (sacked 23rd September 2015) (9th) - 2 wins in 8 league games McCall (resigned - 2nd November 2014) (10th) - 2 wins in 12 league games I mean, Hammell is currently 11th with 1 win in 15 and no prior track record to fall back on. That...doesn't look good? Edited February 5, 2023 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boozyBJ Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 This run of form is appalling. It was ok’ish when the football was not bad but that is a new level of appalling now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowsdower Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Hammell has a couple of things going for him right now. First, he's a club legend, which is always going to be an advantage. Second, we've already sacked a manager this season, and we're probably reluctant to pay out again, and also don't want the stigma of getting it wrong twice. We also have a CEO that probably wants to get out of there without having to go through a manager change again. Finally, signing all those players, then firing hammell before he gets a chance to use them doesn't look very good. As much as many of us are ready for a change at this point, I agree with some of the posts above that he is getting at least another 2 games with this squad. If he didn't have a 1 in 15 record, I'd agree with that process, but I think (and hope to be proved wrong) that we're being a bit naive in this case. There has been no indication that this management team knows how to use it's resources effectively. If we're not taking what we do in training onto the pitch, that's a manager problem. The same with the stupid mistakes we make, that's 100% his job to fix, and he openly admits how clueless he is at doing something about it. Outside of the left back being a child who looks like he doesn't know where he is, I think we've addressed the balance of the squad during this window, and have enough for a new manager to come in and use if we make a change in two weeks. On an unrelated note, Butcher's announcement photo is awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, ZX1886 said: We’ve gambled with relegation for a few years now. One of these times we were bound to get caught out. This year it seems the case. I don’t think we’ll end up like Dunfermline / Falkirk but instead similar to Dundee just stuck in a constant loop. Hammell must give the new boys a chance in Kirkcaldy. Playing the same players that have let him down all season would be an indictment that he doesn’t know how to fix this. I think we have already reached this point and most probably beyond. No doubting he is a great guy. He is. We sponsored his jersey a few seasons in a row. As a result he came as a guest for dinner (in a bigger group) a couple of times. He did not have to do that and had time to talk to everyone. But…..To repeat Hammell now has the worst record of All Managers since we were last relegated. Our record over the past few months has been woeful. 20 games is maybe not a lot in the grand scheme of things, but there are no signs that he has the wherewithal to turn it around. Leaving him in charge will jeopardise any remote chance we have of survival. The Board must see this. Just because there are new players in the building is not enough of a reason. As agreed by most on here the other players have been slowly but surely regressing which suggests a bigger problem. I am not sure the Board will have the cohones to make the decision. But they should and in the next couple of days. Edited February 5, 2023 by welldaft 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, capt_oats said: I'd be surprised if he didn't get next week but out of curiosity I had a look at the runs preceding recent managers leaving and respective league positions: Alexander (sacked/mutual consent - 29th July 2022) (N/A previous season 5th) - 3 wins in 18 league games Robinson (resigned - 31st December 2020) (10th) - 0 wins in 8 league games McGhee (sacked - 28th February 2017) (10th) - 2 wins in 13 league games Baraclough (sacked 23rd September 2015) (9th) - 2 wins in 8 league games McCall (resigned - 2nd November 2014) (10th) - 2 wins in 12 league games I mean, Hammell is currently 11th with 1 win in 15 and no prior track record to fall back on. That...doesn't look good? Barraclough was binned for 2 wins in 8 games? I mean, you’d kill for that type of form right now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: Barraclough was binned for 2 wins in 8 games? I mean, you’d kill for that type of form right now! Tbf, outside the league he was also taken to ET by East Fife in the LC and bodied out the competition by Morton. His sacking felt very much a result of bad vibes though. His final league game was a 1-0 loss to Accies (of course it was). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZX1886 Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 57 minutes ago, welldaft said: Leaving him in charge will jeopardise any remote chance we have of survival. The Board must see this. Just because there are new players in the building is not enough of a reason. As agreed by most on here the other players have been slowly but surely regressing which suggests a bigger problem. I am not sure the Board will have the cohones to make the decision. But they should and in the next couple of days. Fully agree, It’s my increasing worry that we leave it too late. We have our most winnable games (pre-split) on the horizon So it would be the perfect time to make a change given we have the cup break first. However, it’s simply not something the board are going to do. They will back him until it is too late unfortunately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliphas Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Tere's two things in Hammy's favour over the next week or 10 days that are also decisive factors for the board. - He's still to bring into the team the two players everyone was calling out for i.e. a big defender and a defensive mid. It really is over the next two gamea a case of, you have the players, you've had a a couple of weeks to bed them all in...so deliver. - He's got a cup game before the next league game. It's really quite as simple as he will stay on if we win, if we don't he won't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 The St Mirren game at Fir Park feels like it has the potential to be a pretty grim night. Wouldn't really surprise me if we lose by 3 or 4 with increasingly annoying ex-players scoring all of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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