Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[wellboy1991]

I have been contemplating putting this out their due to the usual comments that it would get. But I’m going to risk it anyway and take the hit. 

About 6 months ago, I got a new next door neighbour. Current Well player, from down south. Absolutely lovely guy, just a genuine nice guy. Down to earth and no airs and shits about him.
 

Have become quite good mates with him and despite my previous attempts he doesn’t usually talk much about the club. Wee bits here and there. Rest of the neighbours are **** and Tim’s so they don’t care who he is . 

However this week he did say a few things. He came home from training the other day and was out with his dog, I asked ‘hard session today’. He laughed and exact words ‘never a hard session mate’. I looked at him and laughed.

He then said basically training it’s  an utter shambles, no one has a clue what the f**k is going on. Basically he has seen better organisation at the juniors or as he put it non league teams.
 

Utterly amateurish with little emphasis on the graft in the game. He genuinely seemed gutted about it all. Hammell is not respected by the players and seemingly his ego is out of control. Big split amongst the players which has resulted in Burrows being approached bye multiple senior players. Burrows is a rabbit in the headlights and doesn’t have a clue what to do.
 

Kerr is stuck in the middle and can’t bridge the gap with players and managers. However there is a  big split with Kerr over something that happened with Barry Maguire, no clue what. He didn’t elaborate. 
 

Sounds pretty far fetched until you watch our team and it all makes sense tbh. We are an utterly divided team from top to bottom. Rudderless off and on the pitch.

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by wellboy1991

[Busta Nut]

It's Aston or Josh. They must be the only two from then that came from down south still here.

[Kapowzer]

3 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

It's Aston or Josh. They must be the only two from then that came from down south still here.

Did Josh Morris even bother getting a house?

[ZX1886]

7 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

 

Aye, just to clarify as my wording was poor.

If the decisions not made to pop him by the time the bus arrives back, then the board need a look at themselves.

Despite how things have panned out I still like Hamnell as a guy. Wouldn't like him having a Goodwin-esque undignified departure. A warm handshake, thanks for his efforts and on his way.

The board will be patient with him. It seems now that patience has ran out for 80% of the fanbase, similarly to Alexander around this time last year.
 I find it hard to believe the board would be able to defend his position following a cup exit next week.
For me, he needs to win our next two games, beating Raith Rovers isn’t enough if we’re unable to compete with teams in the Premiership. 

[Well Fan]

The auld saying was good preparation on the training pitch replicates itself during matches. It feels like this is one part of the issue. 

It's obvious that what's happening presently is below requirements for an SPL team. 

No tactical awareness, competitively passive and no  press or fight. Add in standard of players? and both combined, no amount of team tinkering will resolve these issues. 

To me, the players have gave up and downed tools. Probably no trust in management and coach? 

Something stinks in the background and it needs flushed immediately. 

No sentiment required for SH/BK etc (sad as it is) Motherwell FC established in 1886 comes first. 

I expect an announcement on Monday, otherwise we risk relegation and the consequences that brings. 

Over to you, The Current Occupiers of Motherwell FC, Board of Directors. 

 

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, Marinello said:

Whatever happens with SH will be.

But however dreadful we are I offer hope today that we can at least be optomistic in finishing above Kilmarnock.

Took in the Livi Killie game today and I can safely say that Killie are truly awful. They were totally overrun by a committed Livi side . 

Livingston done to Killie what they done to us a few weeks ago.

[wellboy1991]

4 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

It's Aston or Josh. They must be the only two from then that came from down south still here.

Nah, it’s not mate.  Also didn’t say he only arrived at the club in the summer….. 

Also it’s a rental, so not exactly putting roots down. 

[Handsome_Devil]

Slattery my guess...

But aye, there's nothing there that doesn't sound unfamiliar with dozens of previous sides in the past who got relegated.

I imagine the club reluctant to obviously bow to player power and make it seem like they're running the place but when do managers ever come back from this sort of scenario? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Hammell saying in the media he had the backing of senior players was a massive red flag at the time last week.

[EK2DK]

The full thing stinks of deep rooted problems.

I was never in the camp that thought Hammell should get the job. He wasn’t what we needed. We needed someone with some experience given the real low point that Alexander left us in - someone that knew instinctively how to lift teams and players when the going gets tough - SH simply doesn’t have that ability having never managed anywhere else. 

When I started in my career, I joined the company that I’d dreamed of working for, directly from the start. About two weeks in, a guy in passing in the office said to me, it’s great you want to work here so much but if you really want to help the company, go and work elsewhere for 5/10 years and come back; then you’ll bring us something we don’t have.

It was sore to hear but ultimately, completely correct and SH should have had enough people around him and the club to say much the same. 
 

We look lost, he took over a team that was eye bleedingly poor to watch and we had a bounce, but the way we’ve fallen off a cliff can only be attributed to management. 
The players might not like you, but if the results are good then you’re at least doing something right, or indeed, you’d say okay, he’s recruited clearly very well, let’s give him a run - none of that’s true. 

Everything that has happened is totally scattergun from last minute signings to piling on subs. 
We’re no longer actually competing; we’re just getting pumped.

No clear tactics, no clear plan and perhaps most concerningly , this mantra of “it’s not what I want to be associated with” he’s hit out with a few times now, screams of distancing yourself rather than really taking responsibility. 
 

I’m positive that Burrows going is a good thing. We’ve needed a proper strategy and plan as a club for years and neither he nor the board seem capable of doing that. We’re a club run by accountants and a guy who has been blind to systemic problems with the first team for years at this point so freshness is needed.

My only hope is that they find the courage to pull the plug and give ourselves a chance of making the structural changes so badly needed whilst looking ahead to another premier league season and not one in the championship. 
 

[Ron Aldo]

6 hours ago, wellboy1991 said:

I have been contemplating putting this out their due to the usual comments that it would get. But I’m going to risk it anyway and take the hit. 

About 6 months ago, I got a new next door neighbour. Current Well player, from down south. Absolutely lovely guy, just a genuine nice guy. Down to earth and no airs and shits about him.
 

Have become quite good mates with him and despite my previous attempts he doesn’t usually talk much about the club. Wee bits here and there. Rest of the neighbours are **** and Tim’s so they don’t care who he is . 

However this week he did say a few things. He came home from training the other day and was out with his dog, I asked ‘hard session today’. He laughed and exact words ‘never a hard session mate’. I looked at him and laughed.

He then said basically training it’s  an utter shambles, no one has a clue what the f**k is going on. Basically he has seen better organisation at the juniors or as he put it non league teams.
 

Utterly amateurish with little emphasis on the graft in the game. He genuinely seemed gutted about it all. Hammell is not respected by the players and seemingly his ego is out of control. Big split amongst the players which has resulted in Burrows being approached bye multiple senior players. Burrows is a rabbit in the headlights and doesn’t have a clue what to do.
 

Kerr is stuck in the middle and can’t bridge the gap with players and managers. However there is a  big split with Kerr over something that happened with Barry Maguire, no clue what. He didn’t elaborate. 
 

Sounds pretty far fetched until you watch our team and it all makes sense tbh. We are an utterly divided team from top to bottom. Rudderless off and on the pitch.

 

Don't have any reason to doubt this tbh. It certainly makes sense. 

However to play a bit of devil's advocate, regardless of what the players think of Hammell or Alexander before him, they should still take a bit of pride in their own performances which have been shambolic on an almost weekly basis since this time last year. 

We're all Motherwell fans on here and, generally speaking, we know our place in the modern game. Guys can play here and, if they do well, the exposure could get them a move to Rangers, Celtic or down south where they'll earn the big bucks. What some of them should probably realise as well is that a year or 2 of abject performances is just as likely to see them drop down the ladder. 

TL:DR - Hammell may well be an arsehole but the players need to look at themselves too. 

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, EK2DK said:

I’m positive that Burrows going is a good thing. We’ve needed a proper strategy and plan as a club for years and neither he nor the board seem capable of doing that. We’re a club run by accountants and a guy who has been blind to systemic problems with the first team for years at this point so freshness is needed.

Yes, new blood is needed but I hope the collapse over the last 12 months doesn't colour all of Burrows' reign.

We have been exceptionally well run for years and dismissing that now due to recency bias would be a real shame and absurdly unfair.

[wellboy1991]

2 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Don't have any reason to doubt this tbh. It certainly makes sense. 

However to play a bit of devil's advocate, regardless of what the players think of Hammell or Alexander before him, they should still take a bit of pride in their own performances which have been shambolic on an almost weekly basis since this time last year. 

We're all Motherwell fans on here and, generally speaking, we know our place in the modern game. Guys can play here and, if they do well, the exposure could get them a move to Rangers, Celtic or down south where they'll earn the big bucks. What some of them should probably realise as well is that a year or 2 of abject performances is just as likely to see them drop down the ladder. 

TL:DR - Hammell may well be an arsehole but the players need to look at themselves too. 

agree with this. Said player himself has said on more than one occasion he is playing awful just now. His head also seems well down. 
 

I think the man management is at an all time low. To me highlights something we have all mentioned, Hammell needs an experienced head beside him. 

One really interesting point he has said to me before is how badly the club miss Lasley. Essentially he was the glue that kept everyone together on and off the pitch. Socially and footballing. Created a brilliant team spirit and was loved by all.  A proper captain even after retirement. 

I think you can see that with what is going on at St Mirren. They seem to have a brilliant dressing room just now and a good vibe off the pitch. I wouldn’t be surprised if Las has a lot to do with that aswell as Robbo.

[wellboy1991]

9 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Yes, new blood is needed but I hope the collapse over the last 12 months doesn't colour all of Burrows' reign.

We have been exceptionally well run for years and dismissing that now due to recency bias would be a real shame and absurdly unfair.

Agree with this also. I think the major issue is the timing of him leaving. If he left when we were on a high or even end of last season a lot of folk would be gutted but wish him all the best etc. 

However with the current on field turmoil it could have a feel to some of rats leaving a sinking ship essentially getting out because he knows we are fecked.
 

I am not for one minute saying that it is, just that it’s how it could be perceived by some. 

[capt_oats]

56 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Slattery my guess...

But aye, there's nothing there that doesn't sound unfamiliar with dozens of previous sides in the past who got relegated.

I imagine the club reluctant to obviously bow to player power and make it seem like they're running the place but when do managers ever come back from this sort of scenario? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Hammell saying in the media he had the backing of senior players was a massive red flag at the time last week.

I'm not sure it even matters who it is tbh.

I mean, even allowing for confirmation bias on my part, as anonymous "sources" on a Scottish Fitba' Forum go that information probably falls at the 'least surprising' end of the scale.

It's not exactly Deep Throat levels of scandal. 

You only have to look at the extreme level of regression on the park to work out something's not right. The sheer number of players whose form has gone off a cliff means I'm not even sure this is a circumstance where I can blame the players much.

Ultimately if feels like we're at the stage now where everyone does their wee dance and we go through the motions until eventually the manager gets (rightly) launched. I said it the other day but Hammell's comments about still having "backing" was very vote-of-confidence-y and you're right it seemed like a huge red flag.

At the very least, it suggested that someone at board level has had a word in his ear about results.

I thought the latest in his line of "yeah, disappointed..." videos was a guy who is completely fucking lost.

34 minutes ago, wellboy1991 said:

I think you can see that with what is going on at St Mirren. They seem to have a brilliant dressing room just now and a good vibe off the pitch. I wouldn’t be surprised if Las has a lot to do with that aswell as Robbo.

This is something I had been thinking about as well. Not specifically about Lasley but just about the change in "culture" we saw at the club when Robinson took over properly from McGhee in 17/18.

We seem to be a million miles from that just now under Hammell and it's been brought into focus by what Robinson seems to have built in Paisley.

Team building and man management is a skill in itself and one that Robinson, certainly initially, seems to be good at and it seems like he has the personality that he's effective in cultivating and growing a "culture" amongst a group.

I know it's an obvious bit but when you look at the number of his former players he has at St Mirren and the turn he's getting out of them it's fair to say that a decent % of players seem to want to play for him.

Hammell, on the face of it so far, less so.

Edited February 5, 2023 by capt_oats

[eliphas]

I was out yesterday at The Stand with no signal while the game was on thankfully.

For some reason just watched the highlights. Every one if those goals is awful. Defensively awful. Boak. Seeing Goss, McGinn, SOD all have a shout at each other or other team mates after the goals shows some sort of passion...I suppose..or it's the final straw. 

There's a joke here about a comedy show in Aberdeen I refuse to make 

Edited February 5, 2023 by eliphas

[Bigaldo]

Tam Courts saying he wants back into management? Did well with Dundee Utd although I've accepted the best we could do is the playoffs and we could have almost a full new team next week I think SH has to accept he can't do the job with the players we have

[fat_tony]

1 hour ago, wellboy1991 said:

One really interesting point he has said to me before is how badly the club miss Lasley. Essentially he was the glue that kept everyone together on and off the pitch. Socially and footballing. Created a brilliant team spirit and was loved by all.  A proper captain even after retirement. 

This is something I've been thinking about a bit recently with the clear lack of leadership both on and off the pitch. Not just Lasley but under Alexander's tenure we saw an emptying of a lot of "characters" who had either been around long enough to become part of the club or at least showed some genuine love for the club.

The likes of Campbell, Dunne, O'Hara, Grimshaw and Watt were a mixed bag in a footballing sense but all noticeably contributed to the team spirit we seemed to have.

Coupled with a lot of staffing changes with GA bringing in a load of his own people there's been a shift from what was a fairly established framework of people who "were" Motherwell FC to a load of, for want of a better word, mercenaries for whom MFC is just the next job.

There's been a massive loss of identity all through the club and I think we're feeling the effects of this on the pitch right now. Totally academic point, but with that framework and identity intact I wonder if Hammell may have been more successful.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Don't have any reason to doubt this tbh. It certainly makes sense. 

However to play a bit of devil's advocate, regardless of what the players think of Hammell or Alexander before him, they should still take a bit of pride in their own performances which have been shambolic on an almost weekly basis since this time last year. 

We're all Motherwell fans on here and, generally speaking, we know our place in the modern game. Guys can play here and, if they do well, the exposure could get them a move to Rangers, Celtic or down south where they'll earn the big bucks. What some of them should probably realise as well is that a year or 2 of abject performances is just as likely to see them drop down the ladder. 

TL:DR - Hammell may well be an arsehole but the players need to look at themselves too. 

I don't disagree, to an extent, but I suppose the counter to is that regardless of what we think, players play to instruction. If they don't then they get papped out the team.

If they follow the manager's instructions and they under perform - I'm not entirely sure that certain managers are going to own that while fans generally only see it as the player fucking up.

If the manager is setting the team up in such a way that doesn't play to their strengths but is still playing these players anyway (*waves at Sean Goss and Callum Slattery*) then it's a problem. Even more so if it becomes a consistent thing.

It's partly why, IMO, Hammell's post-match line of "Disappointing. We had a good week in training and were well prepared. So yeah, disappointing." has increasingly felt like he's telling on himself.

As I've said, IMO there are currently far too many players who have gone off a cliff from where they were (even under Alexander) for this to be a case of some players needing to take a look at themselves (although there's an element of that). To me it suggests entirely fundamental issues that are generally only rectified in one way.

Besides the winning games of football thing part of Hammell's brief is to develop and get the best out of the players he has at his disposal. The fact that there's barely a player in the squad that you can say has improved since he has been in the job and the list of those who have regressed is as long as your arm doesn't reflect well on him or his staff.

Edited February 5, 2023 by capt_oats

[eliphas]

It's both for me - something isn't right and it's more than likely a combination of the management team approach not working but also players not performing/being good enough regardless of set up.

This mob of players do not get a free pass from me just because the management team aren't doing their job particularly well either.

The core of the team - Lamie, Sol, Mugabi, Goss, Slattery, Spittal, Shields, Efford..I could go on...weren't good enough in Alexander's time when we were sneaking results even... let alone now. 

If we could we should wipe the whole lot and start again. But the only realistic option is a change in management to try and get something out of them all and then see what we can do in the summer.

[Derry Alli]

2 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

TL:DR - Hammell may well be an arsehole but the players need to look at themselves too. 

I've long thought this too. If the players aren't happy with training etc.. put the extra work in yourselves. Don't just dien tools and not do the job you've already proven you're capable of doing. If the manager then decides to take you all out the firing line - then that's solely on him.