Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

['WellDel]

Why has 'leadership' not been identified as a major deficiency in the squad, and steps taken to source a ruthless b*****d who's willing to bawl c***s out and demand 100% from them every game?. Watching spineless p***ks like Goss and Spittal being played through like schoolboys has got beyond frustrating. It's heads gone stuff every fucking week. Then when the ball reaches the rearguard it's just one calamity after another. 

Hammell repeating his same post match shtick ad nauseum of how hard they work through the week is going to fix f**k all. The players are obviously incapable of improving and at least one born leader is required to give us half a hope.

They don't need the grace of Beckenbauer, the likes of Craigan and Hartley in the recent past prove that.  Organisation, commitment and the ability to motivate others goes a long way. I know we're number heavy in defence, but they're mainly heavy shite. If we don't address adding some grit and fight in the next coupleof days, we're down.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I'd like to see Lamie's xG this season. He seems to get himself into great positions to head narrowly wide at least once a game.

[Jonnylosqualo]

Can we replace claret and amber pound with Steelyen.

Also, Hammell went straight up the tunnel at full time. Shitebag. 

[welldaft]

Just watched the highlights. 

To be fair there was nothing in the game. The goal was not as bad as I first thought. Not great defending but not as woeful as many before.

Kelly was not as much to blame as I had gathered from comments online.

The Lamie tackle could have been a penalty but to be honest not too shocked it was not given.

In summary. f**k all is going for us at the moment. Have to hope that changes and soon.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'd like to see Lamie's xG this season. He seems to get himself into great positions to head narrowly wide at least once a game.

Its free to view figures here - Linky

Or here for totals rather than p90 - Linky2

Edited January 28, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

42 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Its free to view figures here - Linky

Or here for totals rather than p90 - Linky2

Seems like Lamie's is fairly unremarkable. Mckinstry scoring 4 with an xG of 1.9 sounds quite impressive statistically?

[thisGRAEME]

58 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Seems like Lamie's is fairly unremarkable. Mckinstry scoring 4 with an xG of 1.9 sounds quite impressive statistically?

Skewed, I'd imagine, by stuff like Laidlaw completely cunting it.

[ropy]

A few have mentioned Tierney and I like him coming off the bench but I didn’t think he was at it today.  He didn’t get close enough to Van Veen.  He found himself with the ball out on both wings and at no point did I think he could swing the ball over or beat his man.  We are grinding him down.

[ropy]

Another bugbear of mine is not getting the subs on.  Cornelius was stripped, St Mirren we’re making subs but we did nothing then eventually threw him on in the last minute.  Pointless.

[redstarcvedza]

14 minutes ago, ropy said:

Another bugbear of mine is not getting the subs on.  Cornelius was stripped, St Mirren we’re making subs but we did nothing then eventually threw him on in the last minute.  Pointless.

Would also argue that today he took off the wrong forward. Shields was at least mildly threatening whilst Van Veen was maddeningly anonymous. Was also weird that Goss and Spittal swapped sides on more than one occasion in first half meaning our left side was loaded with right footers and left side loaded with right footers

[Munoz]

3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'd like to see Lamie's xG this season. He seems to get himself into great positions to head narrowly wide at least once a game.

These fine lines can be the difference between relegation fodder or top 6 wannabes. 

[Kapowzer]

2 hours ago, Munoz said:

These fine lines can be the difference between relegation fodder or top 6 wannabes. 

Perhaps but there is a gulf between Lamie's odd goal from a set piece and the 1 definite he ships per week.

[Busta Nut]

Didn't make the game but I've a few general thoughts.

We really need a midfielder. People are suggesting Hammell has to beat St J or he deserves to go. I'm giving him until midnight the night before as if we don't shore up the midfield then him and the whole recruitment team need to go. That's if we even have a recruitment team given what had been rumoured. I said earlier it's sometimes how these things play out that maybe Mandron/Crankshaw/Danzaki end up getting over the finishing line first while other stuff goes on in the background but this is getting dangerously close to nothing happening. The midfield is a joke, Goss is one of the worst regularly picked players I think I've witnessed at FP, Slattery seems to have lost it since his sexist homophobic "do you know who I am?" thing went public and for all Spittal is "meh" I think he's the least of our pronlems when pushed a bit further forward. We've known for a few weeks Penny wasn't wanting to be here, rumoured he'd been speaking to English clubs for a while too.Yet we end up with Paul McGinn out there.

Lots of chat about "we've filled Hammell's old job" as if it was were he was surely going if we pumped him out. It's rare that happens and it's rare that persons sacked would be willing to take up a "lesser" role. I know it has happened on the odd occasion in the past elsewhere but I think it's stuff of fantasy, regardless we're not gonna get rid of Hammell. It would probably be April and too late before it was considered.

Liam Kelly is dugshite. Sure he's got the odd save for the cameras in him but that goal yesterday was a stinker and it's not his first stinker. If he's anywhere near the Scotland team come March they're in trouble too.

I've probably had more thoughts reading the last few pages but I've forgot them already.

[Handsome_Devil]

Dropping Kelly on Wednesday wouldn't be the worst idea.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

We really need a midfielder. People are suggesting Hammell has to beat St J or he deserves to go. I'm giving him until midnight the night before as if we don't shore up the midfield then him and the whole recruitment team need to go. That's if we even have a recruitment team given what had been rumoured. I said earlier it's sometimes how these things play out that maybe Mandron/Crankshaw/Danzaki end up getting over the finishing line first while other stuff goes on in the background but this is getting dangerously close to nothing happening. The midfield is a joke, Goss is one of the worst regularly picked players I think I've witnessed at FP, Slattery seems to have lost it since his sexist homophobic "do you know who I am?" thing went public and for all Spittal is "meh" I think he's the least of our pronlems when pushed a bit further forward. We've known for a few weeks Penny wasn't wanting to be here, rumoured he'd been speaking to English clubs for a while too.Yet we end up with Paul McGinn out there.

All of that is true.

We needed to address the forward area because Hammell signed Arrons who we only got 50 mins out of before his injury and Moult who managed a solitary start. In that respect the Crankshaw/Mandron/Danzaki signings were absolutely needed.

Someone like Spittal and Goss are...fine if we have the right mix but we don't have the right mix of other players playing around them to balance out their shortcomings.

Spittal's return has been decent enough, we've got 3 goals and 4 assists out him, Goss has shown in spells that he has something to contribute and actually made our midfield work through a run of games when Alexander was here but we've done nothing to address the other stuff except loan out Barry Maguire and reduce the numbers further.

We heard from the AGM that the Penney deal was originally agreed as a season long loan between the two clubs but the player only wanted 6 months. That's fine, it's his career if his preference is to play in England then crack on.

He did us a turn while he was here but it's absolutely wild that we didn't take a fucking hint.

Fwiw, Penney confirmed all of that in the local press the other day:

Quote

He was aware of Charlton’s interest as the winter transfer window opened.

“It’s been on and off for two or three weeks, maybe a bit longer,” Penney told the South London Press.

“I spoke to the gaffer [Dean Holden] a couple of weeks back and we had a really positive chat. But then other things happened in terms of Ipswich and Motherwell, there were bits to sort out.

“[Last] Thursday lunchtime it was off and then Thursday evening it was on. Thankfully I was able to get down the training ground on Friday morning, get it all sorted and crack on and train.

“The initial loan to Motherwell was only until January. I know they wanted to extend it, but I wanted to come back and play in England. When that opportunity arose, it was a bit of a no-brainer.

“There is no bad blood. I loved my time up there. I can only thank Motherwell.”

Link

Edited January 29, 2023 by capt_oats

[Gianfranco]

It goes without saying but it’s a massive few days for Hammell and the club.  We’ve all had enough of the hard luck stories. 

[wellboy1991]

Good post Busta.

Re Slattery which can also be I think spoken about with Goss and Spittal, the midfield balance really does not help them. 
 

Slattery I personally think is a great midfielder, when he is allowed to get on the ball, create, push forward etc. However in this set up he also has to do the donkey work, pass backwards and sideaways and is stifled in creating. He really needs someone behind him to tidy up, protect the defence and play a simple pass to him to let him move forward. An Alex Gorrin type or even when he was on form and pre injury a Liam Donnelly type player. Or even let him sit deeper and control the play without the need to get forward also. 
 

Playing him beside the cowardly lion of Goss who has the physicality/heart/fight of a mouse and Spittal has in my opinion been one of the main sources of our problems.
 

The midfield should be the area of the team that dictates the tempo, the intensity and the style of play. Playing three weak, slow, ‘nice’ ball players means that’s exactly what we are going to get. Everything slowed down, played at the one pace and there is absolutely zero support for KVV or the other forward players as they are too bloody slow to get up and down the pitch. 
 

One thing Dean does gives is energy and workrate and gets forward to support. With him the balance is better, far from perfect but certainly better. 

[MP_MFC]

If we’re going all in with the faults of where we are now, allow me to add my own with the airing of the grievances.
 

It’s hardly a surprise we are where we are with this team when you step back and look at it.

It’s an almost identical first team than we had last year when we did not win a single league game between Boxing Day and April 2nd. This year, we are on our second long run with poor results one league win between 20/08 and 29/10 and that folks was the last time we won a league game. Two league wins in 18 (EIGHTEEN) games. The only reason we are not absolutely cut adrift is because we have picked up a fair few draws in the second part of this horrendous run - that is sackable form in anyone’s book and the only reason Hammell is still in the job is that the he got off to a good start so built up even more goodwill with the fans and the board know they made a rip roaring c**t of it in the summer. 
 

Since Alexander came in, how many of the players we have in our squad have progressed under either him or Hammell?  Arguably Efford but we need more data to know if that is a purple patch or genuine progression meanwhile we’ve seen huge regression at worst (Kelly, SOD and getting close to adding slattery to this) or players playing at or below the level required. 
 

We have a team of players in a starting XI especially who would genuinely not got near starting for any other top flight team- Lamie should be in the championship with Dundee, McGinn should be on the bench alongside SOD, we don’t have a left back and Blaney is still new. I’m not going to go near the midfield as it’s been done to death revtheir flaws, all I’ll add is that there is surely a reason why teams with Blair Spittal as a key component in them are always in or around the relegation zone. Up front we have Shields who is not near the required standard, McKinstry who is an absolute project but one I’m not particularly enjoying other than the odd glimpse, he is so one footed it’s not real and van Veen who is clearly not 100% fit and even when he is goes games without doing anything. Kelly should be dropped if nothing more than to give him a boot up the arse and maybe focus the minds of the idiots infront of him but given how much we have invested in him it’s not going to happen. 
 

The club made an arse of the Alexander situation and didn’t press the reset button early enough with him and compounded this by then not backing him in the summer (Josh fucking Morris) and are arguably making the same mistake with Hammell although they seem to be at least backing him to sign some players but I’m hugely concerned he’s signing entirely the wrong type. We need help all over the park but he only seems to be addressing the attacking options - now perhaps there is a new brick wall centre half waiting in the wings, a competent left back and a ball winning scrappy centre mid alongside him but we seem to be focussing on attackers and *shudder* players who can play across the front three and I’m not sure that is what is going to fix our woes and keep us in the division this year we only have to look at County yesterday to start to worry that this is the start of their traditional mental post Christmas run when they motor up the table.

My main concern with our management team and coaches is that they seem wed to playing the same players in the same roles and expecting different results, now who knows if that was about to change yesterday going by Hammell’s comments in that he had planned a front 2 with KVV and Mandron but the fact he then chucked that entirely out the window and went back to Shields gives me the absolute fear that he really is unable to think outside the box and offer us anything other than the same old pish and the same old sob stories week after week until we get flushed sometime in early April. 
 

The next 4 days are going to determine our season and probably the next five years one way or the other. We need to get it right on and off the park, at player, coaching and board level. I’m not sure right now I have faith in any of them to get it done. 

[wellboy1991]

Agree with the above post by MP_MFC Never mind improving under Hammell, I think it’s also fair to say plenty of players have regressed under him.

Generally hate being one of those guys but things just seem completely off, on and off the pitch just now. Really concerned about the future.

[capt_oats]

46 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

Since Alexander came in, how many of the players we have in our squad have progressed under either him or Hammell?  Arguably Efford but we need more data to know if that is a purple patch or genuine progression meanwhile we’ve seen huge regression at worst (Kelly, SOD and getting close to adding slattery to this) or players playing at or below the level required. 

I mean, strong agree with that entire post but this bit in particular is where I have my problem with Hammell and Kerr.

In Alexander's case you can point to the fact that we were bottom of the league when he took over and he lifted us to 8th (on the same points as 7th) by the end of the season.

He got Devante Cole scoring goals, he got a tune out of Ricki Lamie in a way Robinson couldn't, Liam Kelly was very good for us when he came in. Fast forward to the next season and he had Tony Watt literally the top goalscorer in the league at the point he fucked off for his £5k a week gig at Tannadice.

Then things went sideways from January 22. It's been covered well and resulted in Alexander being launched.

In Hammell's case I genuinely struggle to think of a player that he's either signed or inherited that has actually improved - which for the sort of team that generally leans heavily on being greater than the sum of their parts is a pretty big fucking problem.

On the flip of that the list of players who seem to have regressed on his watch is quite the fucking laundry list.

Edited January 29, 2023 by capt_oats