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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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3 hours ago, well fan for life said:

I feel for Hammell. Fucked by injuries and stuck with some of Alexander's honking signings.

True to some extent, but I get the feeling that everything, mostly bad, is happening to him rather than him being in control and making things happen. Would you agree? We're losing games by fine margins, but worryingly, its becoming a habit. I'm not panicking yet but another few losses, especially on Tayside, and I'll be losing sleep. 

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Just seen the highlights on sportscene. Initially I was raging that they'd called the game without a check on the defender going over the top of kvv right at the death, and don't think I was alone in wondering if I should leave or not yet as was convinced there would be a decision to overturn ,  but seeing the Lamie incident now has me absolutely fizzing ! 

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7 hours ago, Dosser2014 said:

True to some extent, but I get the feeling that everything, mostly bad, is happening to him rather than him being in control and making things happen. Would you agree? We're losing games by fine margins, but worryingly, its becoming a habit. I'm not panicking yet but another few losses, especially on Tayside, and I'll be losing sleep. 

One of the toughest things being a manager is you can do the best work possible over the week and if your number nine misses a literally empty net and you lose you carry the can.

Everyone said when Hammell took over his first goal was not being cut adrift by the WC. He was charged with getting fans back onside and doing what rebuilding he could in August then, when he has his feet under the desk, January.

And if the sum total of that work is survival in 10th and a fresh start in 2023 he would have been deemed to have done 'ok' given the circumstances in which he took over.

That was a calm, rational view back then and despite the panic it should remain the calm, rational view now.

Hammell might be a great manager or he might be shite but the time to judge him on that is at least 18 months away - the obvious exception being should we be five points adrift in March!

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1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

One of the toughest things being a manager is you can do the best work possible over the week and if your number nine misses a literally empty net and you lose you carry the can.

Everyone said when Hammell took over his first goal was not being cut adrift by the WC. He was charged with getting fans back onside and doing what rebuilding he could in August then, when he has his feet under the desk, January.

And if the sum total of that work is survival in 10th and a fresh start in 2023 he would have been deemed to have done 'ok' given the circumstances in which he took over.

That was a calm, rational view back then and despite the panic it should remain the calm, rational view now.

Hammell might be a great manager or he might be shite but the time to judge him on that is at least 18 months away - the obvious exception being should we be five points adrift in March!

That’s pretty much it for me. I think the initial bounce we got under Hammy wearing off + injuries + a stinking run of fixtures have led us into a spell now that I think most sensible heads were accepting would happen back in August. 
 

I very much like the general ideas behind what Hammy is looking to do but realistically it’s going to take him 2/3 windows to get the players required for it and rid of the others, therefore what’s the best approach in short-term given that first and foremost we absolutely need to stay in the division? Keep doing what we’re doing or tweak things slightly (or significantly)? 
 

On the KVV conundrum, he’s had a good season up until the last few games (as @thisGRAEME pointed out earlier probably no coincidence that he’s dropped off since Moults injury) but he’s always been erratic. The biggest issue is our current over-reliance on him which obviously isn’t his fault. 

Feels like there’s more questions than answers just now, WC and then the transfer window can’t come quick enough tbh. 

Edited by Reidy
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For me it all goes back to the decision in the summer by the board to neither back or sack Alexander. 

We had a torrid 2nd half of last season and we only actually invested in 4 permanent signings this summer. Which included a couple of journeyman in their 30’s and a back up goalkeeper. Which left us scrambling about taking punts on crocks at the end of the window.  

We stumbled along in some sort of weird purgatory for far too long seemingly just waiting on the inevitable. Which eventually happened when Alexander got punted just a day before the season started. 

So Hammell undoubtedly walked into a mess not of his own making but to be fair so did Alexander when he took over from Robinson. And Robinson from McGhee. McGhee from Baraclough and so on. That’s the job I suppose and you’d have to go back over a decade to McCall for the last time a Motherwell manager wasn’t coming in to clear up someone else’s mess.

We are where we are and we can’t change how we got here. We have a squad lacking in depth as well as quality(particularly in the forward areas) on a dreadful run with a rookie manager trying to stem the tide. I must admit, I didn't envy Hammell looking at his options on the bench yesterday as it was pretty fucking grim. 

I said at the start of the season that for me survival was the aim and that hasn’t changed. If anything from what I’ve seen so far, I actually think it’ll be more of an achievement now than I did back then. 

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Loved the sound of Moult coming back but always had the fears that he was done, surely he had to pass some type of health assessment before he came back or was it just a fingers crossed signing? Aaron's also being crocked has lost the options that Hammell looked to bring in to help us up front and the lack of those options are totally killing us just now especially given the type of player KVV is.

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For all it's the case that we've conceded at least 2 goals in 7 of our 12 league games, in the interest of balance 6 of our 7 losses have only been by 1 goal. Them's fine margins.

The first thing Hammell set about doing when he got the job was identifying that our forward options weren't good enough. The positive I guess is that KVV's in double figures already despite being a fairly erratic player and that's McKinstry starting to chip in now (that's 2 smashing goals he's scored).

We also emptied big Juhani and haven't replaced him.

Beyond that the two players we brought in as solutions for the forward area are now apparently broken (to the surprise of no one) so we're kind of back to square one.

Tbh, even bringing in an experienced coach to support Hammell and Kerr with the first team might be a step in the right direction to fixing some of our problems.

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11 hours ago, ropy said:

First goal - Kelly ran to the 18 yard line and stood tall.  I thought he could have made a race for the ball and either beaten the Aberdeen player to it or at least made him win a challenge. Who knows?

Spot on with this . I sit right in line with the 18 yard box and I saw Kelly start to come and then stop leaving him in no man's land giving the Aberdeen player time to pick his finish. Poor decision making .

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47 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Look forward to everyone being disappointed by Efford when he returns. 

Please remember he is utter horse shit really and just because he's not llayinf doesn't make him better.

Nah. Before he was injured folk were definitely saying he'd come onto a good game under Hammell. He really did look like a different player, skinning folk n that.

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27 minutes ago, CoF said:

Nah. Before he was injured folk were definitely saying he'd come onto a good game under Hammell. He really did look like a different player, skinning folk n that.

Aye I saw folk say that and he definitely started playing a little better. But that really wouldn't take much from where he was. He will get my support but my stance is he's still utterly utterly honking. 

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I got tore into Efford at half time at Dingwall and he turned into a superstar.  Yesterday I was just finished saying that McKinstry is not as good as I had hoped he would be and we will get nothing from Shields, when we got an assist from one and a good goal from the other.

Next Saturday I will slate KVV.

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24 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Aye I saw folk say that and he definitely started playing a little better. But that really wouldn't take much from where he was. He will get my support but my stance is he's still utterly utterly honking. 


Got to remember, he came in in January just as Alexander’s reign of terror was in full swing and every single player didn’t have a clue what was actually being asked of them. As Efford himself said, we’ve actually got a game plan now and I think he’s clearly benefitted from that. 
 

You might be right, but I do think there’s a decent player in there. 

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1 hour ago, well_said said:

Spot on with this . I sit right in line with the 18 yard box and I saw Kelly start to come and then stop leaving him in no man's land giving the Aberdeen player time to pick his finish. Poor decision making .

I kind of thought that as well. But then i give him the benefit of the doubt. And I don’t think he is playing as well as he has been. If he comes out any further he is outside the box and may well be sent off if he handles the ball or impeded the player or both. 

I have had time to reflect and whilst still worried about state of play I think we have been out of luck. In reality Aberdeen probably should be beating us but there was not a lot in that game. Their 1st goal comes from a fluke deflection into the the path of the Aberdeen player. Yes from there it is well played and well finished for the goal. I though at the time we gave it away. 

The second goal was a good finish. 

We are too dependant on Kev. Any striker at Motherwell and in general will miss more then he scores, but some of the chances are quite simple. Which is why he is under pressure. 

We will be in mix for the drop but hopefully we can pick up 4 or 6 points before the WC break. Get the rub of the green. 

 

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3 hours ago, welldaft said:

I kind of thought that as well. But then i give him the benefit of the doubt. And I don’t think he is playing as well as he has been. If he comes out any further he is outside the box and may well be sent off if he handles the ball or impeded the player or both. 

I have had time to reflect and whilst still worried about state of play I think we have been out of luck. In reality Aberdeen probably should be beating us but there was not a lot in that game. Their 1st goal comes from a fluke deflection into the the path of the Aberdeen player. Yes from there it is well played and well finished for the goal. I though at the time we gave it away. 

The second goal was a good finish. 

We are too dependant on Kev. Any striker at Motherwell and in general will miss more then he scores, but some of the chances are quite simple. Which is why he is under pressure. 

We will be in mix for the drop but hopefully we can pick up 4 or 6 points before the WC break. Get the rub of the green. 

 

I see what you mean regarding Kelly, But the fact that he stopped dead gave the attacking player more time whereas if he continued running toward the attacker it cuts down his thinking time and the possibility of making a mess of it. Who knows maybe the attacker would crap it at the sight of the onrushing keeper. However I guess we'll  never know the answer to that. I just felt it was poor goalkeeping.

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Kelly would’ve been better either staying further back or rushing the boy completely. He did neither. 

Van Veen’s open goal miss and pass back to the keeper look worse in the highlights than they did at the time. The guy is getting gilt edge chances laid on a plate week after week. 

Edited by Allroy for Prez
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45 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Kelly would’ve been better either staying further back or rushing the boy completely. He did neither. 

Van Veen’s open goal miss and pass back to the keeper look worse in the highlights than they did at the time. The guy is getting gilt edge chances laid on a plate week after week. 

But the problem is he is almost our only option. Which is a shite state of affairs to be in quite frankly.

Moult and Aaron’s are f*cked. Efford is injured for how long ? And well Shields is not up this level at all 🤷‍♂️

 

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52 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Kelly would’ve been better either staying further back or rushing the boy completely. He did neither. 

Van Veen’s open goal miss and pass back to the keeper look worse in the highlights than they did at the time. The guy is getting gilt edge chances laid on a plate week after week. 

Aye, after watching Sportscene those two KVV chances are guilt edged, they looked bad at the game but even worse on the telly. All the endeavour is there, just not getting the run of the green right now. Also the amount of time wasting by Aberdeen the whole game was embarrassing, especially bringing on 3 subs in the space of about 5 minutes. And don't get me started on the VAR speculation at the end of the game, as I said nothing seems to be going our way at the moment. 

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