Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

21 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Problem is, you just can’t see where the goals are going to come from.

We’ve played 11 games so far this season,  only in 1 of them(Pittodrie) has anyone other than Van Veen actually scored. Yesterday was the 3rd own goal we’ve ‘scored’ this season, that’s more goals than the rest of the squad outside KVV has contributed combined. 

It’s mental Alexander actually said he was happy with the ‘firepower’ he had at the start of the season- he was surely fucking at it. The likes of Morris, Shields and Efford just won’t do. Unfortunately despite Hammell’s attempts to bring in more quality, his signings haven’t really improved things so far either. 

It does seem a bit early to be hitting out with the big game patter however with Celtic twice, Hibs and Hearts away as well as Rangers to come in the next month or so, things could get quite grim pretty quickly if we don’t pick up a win from somewhere.

We're definitely a work in progress although perhaps in a different way to how many might have expected.

The transition to "good football" has actually been a lot quicker and smoother than the folk who were losing their minds about us apparently having the worst Motherwell squad ever would have imagined. I mean, maybe they still think that, IDK they're exactly the type of terrible takes I muted on Twitter ages ago.

The long and the short of it is that we've created plenty clear cut chances, had a ton of possession and have seen a change of shape to a 4231. There's been a fundamental change and in that respect I don't think we've seen a new manager bounce as such - it's not like we're just doing the same thing but trying a bit harder.

The key part is clearly that while we're that bit more open and on-the-front-foot we're losing games - the Hearts game being a case in point.

From my POV the transition has been quicker than I was expecting especially given Hammell's inexperience and the circumstances that led to him getting the job.

Where folk may have envisioned us getting taken to the woodshed this season based on the Sligo debacle we've actually been relative competitive. We've only lost 1 game by more than a single goal. In broad terms that's a sort of positive.

Equally though, we've only won 1 game by more than one goal - and that was against a Championship side.

The concern I have is that this is the squad Hammell has to work with and yeah, it's difficult to see where the goals are coming from.

We've a markedly smaller squad and Hammell seems to be advocating putting out as consistent an XI as he can, certainly compared to Alexander's tombola. Unless we've got some wunderkind cutting about the Young Team we're pretty much relying on Connor Shields and Joey Efford to come good. 

After 8 games last season we'd scored 11 goals and conceded 9.

This season we've scored 8 and conceded 11.

As an aside it was vaguely interesting to see that when Morris came on yesterday he was used as one of the two pivots in our midfield rather than being flung on out wide.

Edited October 3, 2022 by capt_oats

[joewarkfanclub]

Football fans in general are all sugar or shite. I dont know whether ours are any better or worse, but some of the reactions to our recent results are somewhat depressing.

The majority wanted to see the end to the eye bleeding, mind numbing shite we had to endure under Alexander. We have had that and some.

Its unfortunate that we took only 1 point against Dundee United and Hearts given the performance levels, the chances created and entertainment provided. But we cant be losing our shit right now when we are a work in progress.

This is a tough run of games, and yes we might slip down the table during this period. But the fixtures will even out over the season, and hopefully by the time they do our form will kick in and our important players will hit top form.

Goals are an issue right now, but we have signed Moult in that regard and he has barely been seen as yet.

Hammell is having to manage a squad not of his own making and I trust him to get it right. We just need to stay calm and show some patience.

That said, 3 points on Tuesday night would be huge and by us some time.

Edited October 2, 2022 by joewarkfanclub

[capt_oats]

Noticed that @PauloPerth had made a similar post in the St Johnstone thread re: their start. 

FWIW: here's how our current start compares with the previous 10. Not the best, not the worst.

22/23 - P 8 W 3 D 1 L 4 F 8 A 11 Pts 10
21/22 - P 8 W 4 D 2 L 2 F 11 A 9 Pts 14
20/21 - P 8 W 2 D 2 L 4 F 6 A 8 Pts 8
19/20 - P 8 W 5 D 1 L 2 F 15 A 10 Pts 16
18/19 - P 8 W 1 D 1 L 6 F 8 A 14 Pts 5
17/18 - P 8 W 4 D 1 L 3 F 13 A 10 Pts 13
16/17 - P 8 W 2 D 3 L 3 F 11 A 12 Pts 9
15/16 - P 8 W 2 D 1 L 5 F 5 A 10 Pts 7
14/15 - P 8 W 2 D 1 L 5 F 4 A 12 Pts 7
13/14 - P 8 W 5 D 1 L 2 F 11 A 9 Pts 16
12/13 - P 8 W 3 D 4 L 1 F 13 A 10 Pts 13

Edited October 3, 2022 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

Kettlewell takes over from Kerr with #YoungMotherwell.

His County u20s won the league and won the Championship when he was their actual first team manager.

On the face of it that seems like a...good appointment?

Edited October 3, 2022 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

16 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:

Football fans in general are all sugar or shite. I dont know whether ours are any better or worse, but some of the reactions to our recent results are somewhat depressing.

Has there really been much of a negative reaction? 

Admittedly I generally try to avoid Motherwell fans on social media, especially after a defeat but from what I have seen I haven’t really thought that to be the case. The team were even applauded off after a 0-3 defeat at Fir Park the other week and that doesn’t happen very often. 

I’d say almost everyone I’ve seen or spoken to is firmly behind Hammell and haven’t seen many if any dissenting voices so far. 

[Phillips455]

As long as we get some good results in our next 2 games, I don't think there will be too much to worry about. Target practise is a must however.

 

Looking at the table, it is currently split into 3 distinct groups. There is the Bottom 3 of Dundee United, Kilmarock and Ross County who have 2, 4 and 5 points respectively.

Then we have ourselves in 9th on 10 points all the way up to St Mirren in 3rd on 15. Yhe same points total seperates us from 10th and 3rd.

Finally is the two old firm teams in their own league title battle.

realistically, its a season of repairs so anything that isn't a relegation battle and possible good cup run(s) would be a decent success in my own eyes.

Let's hope we don't drop points to teams who are struggling around us again.....

[joewarkfanclub]

42 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Has there really been much of a negative reaction? 

Admittedly I generally try to avoid Motherwell fans on social media, especially after a defeat but from what I have seen I haven’t really thought that to be the case. The team were even applauded off after a 0-3 defeat at Fir Park the other week and that doesn’t happen very often. 

I’d say almost everyone I’ve seen or spoken to is firmly behind Hammell and haven’t seen many if any dissenting voices so far. 

I think within the wider support that is definitely the case. But you only need to read some of the reponses in the Celtic game thread and on Steelmen Online to get my point. As for Twitter, deary me! I guess its maybe just a trait of human nature that people are more likely to post something when they are unhappy about something rather than when its going well. I just get frustrated that there is often no balance or understanding shown. Im not for a minute saying everything in the garden is rosy, or we couldnt very quickly find ourselves in a tricky situation if results dont improve. But give me where we are right now over "murderball" every time.

Edited October 3, 2022 by joewarkfanclub

[joewarkfanclub]

21 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

As long as we get some good results in our next 2 games, I don't think there will be too much to worry about. Target practise is a must however.

 

Looking at the table, it is currently split into 3 distinct groups. There is the Bottom 3 of Dundee United, Kilmarock and Ross County who have 2, 4 and 5 points respectively.

Then we have ourselves in 9th on 10 points all the way up to St Mirren in 3rd on 15. Yhe same points total seperates us from 10th and 3rd.

Finally is the two old firm teams in their own league title battle.

realistically, its a season of repairs so anything that isn't a relegation battle and possible good cup run(s) would be a decent success in my own eyes.

Let's hope we don't drop points to teams who are struggling around us again.....

For me this is it.

Imagine we had got a draw v Hearts, which is the very least we deserved on the quality of our play and chances created.

We would then be be above St Johnstone and level with Hearts and within striking distance of Hibs come the weekend.

Had KVV converted our penalty v Dundee Utd it would be another deserved 3 points and we are sitting quite nicely thank you.

Its all fine margins. I think folk are panicking as we are in the middle of a tough run of games and should we lose them all, things would start to look a little bit tricky.

However, my experience of following Motherwell for nearly 50 years is that we nearly never ever win the games we expect to and always seem to pull a result out of nowhere when you least expect it. 

So we didnt get what we wanted from our last 2 home games. But Im willing to bet we get more than 0 points during this current difficult run of fixtures. 

[PauloPerth]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Noticed that @PauloPerth had made a similar post in the St Johnstone thread re: their start. 

FWIW: here's how our current start compares with the previous 10. Not the best, not the worst.

22/23 - P 8 W 3 D 1 L 4 F 8 A 11 Pts 10
21/22 - P 8 W 4 D 2 L 2 F 11 A 9 Pts 14
20/21 - P 8 W 2 D 2 L 4 F 6 A 8 Pts 8
19/20 - P 8 W 5 D 1 L 2 F 15 A 10 Pts 16
18/19 - P 8 W 1 D 1 L 6 F 8 A 14 Pts 5
17/18 - P 8 W 4 D 1 L 3 F 13 A 10 Pts 13
16/17 - P 8 W 2 D 3 L 3 F 11 A 12 Pts 9
15/16 - P 8 W 2 D 1 L 5 F 5 A 10 Pts 7
14/15 - P 8 W 2 D 1 L 5 F 4 A 12 Pts 7
13/14 - P 8 W 5 D 1 L 2 F 11 A 9 Pts 16
12/13 - P 8 W 3 D 4 L 1 F 13 A 10 Pts 13

You’re much better starters than us going by that.

I generally think of Motherwell as either being really good in the first half of a season, then failing away after Christmas, or the complete opposite where you look doomed up to Christmas then find great form in the second half of the season.

We’re at killie on Wednesday and you’ve got county on Tuesday; a win for both of us in midweek gives a very comforting  gap above the bottom three. 

[Ron Aldo]

I think within the wider support that is definitely the case. But you only need to read some of the reponses in the Celtic game thread and on Steelmen Online to get my point. As for Twitter, deary me! I guess its maybe just a trait of human nature that people are more likely to post something when they are unhappy about something rather than when its going well. I just get frustrated that there is often no balance or understanding shown. Im not for a minute saying everything in the garden is rosy, or we couldnt very quickly find ourselves in a tricky situation if results dont improve. But give me where we are right now over "murderball" every time.

It's been a long time since I last looked at Steelmen Online but from what I recall it's full of the absolute worst of our moaning arsehole fans. We could be winning the treble and they would still find something to moan about on there.

I certainly wouldn't be referencing it in any meaningful way to highlight the feelings amongst our support which, IMO, are still largely positive.

[Gianfranco]

I quite like Kettlewell on Sportsound and the likes.

[thisGRAEME]

3 hours ago, Gianfranco said:

I quite like Kettlewell on Sportsound and the likes.

Yeah. I'd be weirdly quite disappointed if he was aff that now, haha.

[capt_oats]

27 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Yeah. I'd be weirdly quite disappointed if he was aff that now, haha.

Fear not.

Quote

"He left the club in December 2020 and had been heavily involved in the media, something he will continue to do whilst leading Motherwell’s young guns."

Link

Edited October 3, 2022 by capt_oats

[Dosser2014]

11 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

It's been a long time since I last looked at Steelmen Online but from what I recall it's full of the absolute worst of our moaning arsehole fans. We could be winning the treble and they would still find something to moan about on there.

I certainly wouldn't be referencing it in any meaningful way to highlight the feelings amongst our support which, IMO, are still largely positive.

I wouldn't get too introspective and worked up about others in our support. They're quite entitled to their views, whatever they may be. More pressing matters to focus on in my view. Every forum, including this very one has its fair share of moaners and trolls. Thats the t'internet fur ye. Each to their own. 

I don't detect much negativity at the moment, especially about Steven Hammell, but he's much loved as a former player and has quite a bit of credit in the bank, even in these times of turmoil and turbulence. However, if he doesn't start picking up points soon and we head towards the bottom then the honeymoon period will be over.   

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I know Kettlewell won't be picking the team or anything but having a guy around the club that has actual managerial experience can't be a bad thing, given the relative rawness of the other coaching staff.

[dezz]

Aye I was thinking the same thing, getting someone of Kettlewell's experience and standing (relatively to Scottish football) in to lead the academy feels like a good appointment. The fact he has experience in both youth and first team management should help out Hammell and Kerr, and fit into the overall 'strategy' we've heard a fair bit about since SH took over. 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, dezz said:

Aye I was thinking the same thing, getting someone of Kettlewell's experience and standing (relatively to Scottish football) in to lead the academy feels like a good appointment. The fact he has experience in both youth and first team management should help out Hammell and Kerr, and fit into the overall 'strategy' we've heard a fair bit about since SH took over. 

I was genuinely quite surprised to learn that Kettlewell's younger than Hammell but aye, it's an interesting pivot given the coaches we've had in various iterations of the role recently have been Johansson, Craigan, Ross and Kerr (albeit the Reserves league was mothballed when he was in position).

Bringing in a guy who won the u20s league with County and managed at Premiership level with their first team is definitely a change in terms of experience.

Also seems notable that, like N.Alexander, he's someone who has no prior connection with the club (AFAIK) - between Lasley, Clarkson, Craigan, McManus, Hammell, Kerr, McFadden and even Mo Ross it's not like we've been shy in getting former players in for coaching roles in the past.

Curious to see who gets the Academy director job now as, like I say, Kettlewell isn't a name I'd have even thought of for the LDC.

Edited October 4, 2022 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

I don’t know why anyone thinks he gonna be in post for any significant amount of time.

If it’s anything other than a 6-12 month gig until he gets a role with more responsibilities elsewhere I’d be surprised. Tam Cowan runs our temp agency after all.

He is well positioned to be a caretaker however …. sincerely hope he's not required.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Kapowzer

[joewarkfanclub]

23 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

It's been a long time since I last looked at Steelmen Online but from what I recall it's full of the absolute worst of our moaning arsehole fans. We could be winning the treble and they would still find something to moan about on there.

I certainly wouldn't be referencing it in any meaningful way to highlight the feelings amongst our support which, IMO, are still largely positive.

Having read back this and the match thread, you are right. My feel for the repsonse to the Celtic result is definitely being negatively influenced by sources elsewhere. Think I need to hang out here more to retain a more balanced perspective! 

[joewarkfanclub]

Kettlewell seems like a good appointment. Surprised its the lead coach job he has got. Makes you wonder who is going to get the Academy Director role.......