Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[welldaft]

I said in a post during Alexander reign. Would people be happier if we were playing nice football and losing games. Looks like we are about to find out. Missing absolute sitters. How McGinn misses I will never know.

We beat Hearts at home twice last season

Before they scored the second I would say we should have been winning the game.

I also said central defence needed urgent attention.

The football has been and is easier on the eye but we seem to have gone from scoring from few chances to missing a barrow load.

[Handsome_Devil]

I think people will tolerate this for a while given the extent of the Alexanderball and the fact it's Hammell. At least until we look in relegation bother.

We're clearly not far away from being an ok side - mainly a first pick CB and being a bit more clincal up front - but this looks like being a hugely frustrating season in terms of walking away from games lost we should have won.

On the balance of play we obviously should never have lost today but ultimately if you can't defend and can't score you'll get beat and can have few complaints.

[welldaft]

Nearly 3 times as many shots as Hearts and 3-0 defeat looming.

It is hard to fault the players. We have had no luck at all today. We have played well up until the final 3rd.

But yes playing nice football and losing 3-0 will test the patience.

[Handsome_Devil]

6 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Nearly 3 times as many shots as Hearts and 3-0 defeat looming.

It is hard to fault the players. We have had no luck at all today. We have played well up until the final 3rd.

But yes playing nice football and losing 3-0 will test the patience.

We definitely had no luck and some chances you just write off and say next week that goes in...others - plenty of them - were just poor play though, KVV's swipe in the first half and McGinn not finding the net were absolutely criminal.

Also the number of times we played a reasonable pass to someone who wasn't making the run due to poor communication or left the ball between two players was unreal.

[capt_oats]

On 17/09/2022 at 12:59, YassinMoutaouakil said:

They're trying to jinx us, the p***ks. 

Fair play. Their jinx worked.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I’m as unagitated (is that a word) as I’ve ever been after a 0-3.

Plenty of positives and everything that could have gone against us did. Defensive errors are bound to happen now and again and that’s the first Lamie has made in a while. Hearts would’ve struggled to get the lead without a mistake.

One downside to today for me was Barry Maguire. Really want to like the guy and give him extra leeway being an academy player etc, but we really do drop off in quality when he plays, to the point he impedes us. Cornelius got on the ball far better when he came on.

Wonder if Shields and Morris’ omission from the squad means either are going on a championship loan.

[Handsome_Devil]

Not that I want to be unduly pulling the brakes on the Hammell express train, I wonder if we'll all be quite so relaxed if we lose or even draw at County given the run with the OF coming up.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Handsome_Devil

[capt_oats]

22 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Wonder if Shields and Morris’ omission from the squad means either are going on a championship loan.

I mean, Morris was last on the bench against Killie on the 27th.

We've played 3 games since then plus a Reserve match and he hasn't been involved in any of those squads. That seems quite a while.

I suppose it kind of depends whether Hammell's still actively looking to recruit and we need to shift some bodies (the bold Rolando pulling up seems...ominous - given his injury record).

[capt_oats]

36 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Not that I want to be unduly pulling the brakes on the Hammell express train, I wonder if we'll all be quite so relaxed if we lose or even draw at County given the run with the OF coming up.

Depends on what our ambitions are this season tbh. If it's 10th and above then roughly 1 point per game average over the season should see that happen.

Right now we still have a ppg average of 1.42 although obvs we still have Celtic and Rangers still to play. As it goes we're 4 points worse off than we were after 7 games last season (and we'd already played - and drawn with - the **** at that point).

These were our results for the opening round of fixtures - our total for R1 was 15 points so we're 5 short of that just now.

Stating the obvious but the St Johnstone, Killie and United games have fucked us a bit (especially as we were level in injury time against Saints, up against Kilie and missed a penalty against United).

Comparing with last season:

Hibs = TBC
St Johnstone = down 1 point
Livi = no change
Dundee/Killie = down 3 points
Aberdeen = no change
Rangers = TBC
Ross County = TBC
Hearts = no change
Celtic = TBC
United = up 1 point
St Mirren = up 2 points

Edited September 18, 2022 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

5 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Depends on what our ambitions are this season tbh. If it's 10th and above then roughly 1 point per game average over the season should see that happen.

Right now we still have a ppg average of 1.42 although obvs we still have Celtic and Rangers still to play. As it goes we're 4 points worse off than we were after 7 games last season (and we'd already played - and drawn with - the **** at that point).

Aye, I'm not expecting another European push or even the top six - though given the state of Hibs and United there's no reason why not - but if you assume we lose to the OF, leaving even more points against County and Hibs having already chucked so many will see us at or around a PPG of 1. Which is relegation battle stuff however nice the football is...

I'd still be saying we're playing well enough things will turn in our favour and there's no need for panic but the honeymoon phase will be well and truly over.

[Casagolda]

I mean Hammell really can’t legislate for Lamie’s decision making at the first or McGinn missing an open goal from 6 yards out. 

Two massive blunders from experienced pro’s that change the course of the game. Especially with Hearts going up the park and scoring the 2nd minutes after the McGinn miss. 

Van Veen missed his customary sitter first half. We hit both posts including the aforementioned open goal miss at the start of second. Gordon made two cracking saves from Van Veen and Penney. Penney also hits the bar. 

I mean it’s not as if it’s possession for possessions sake. We are creating plenty of chances but we’re simply not taking them. I’m not an XG nerd by any means but we must be setting records these last two games for chances created and somehow failing to score any of them.

I’m conflicted, part of me is happy with how we’re playing and optimistically saying it’s surely only a matter of time until we absolutely batter somebody. However when I look at our upcoming fixtures, I also fear we are in for potentially a tough month and will be ruing all these missed opportunities to put points on the board. 

[Swello]

I know football fans are all fickle hypocrites (me included) - but we all moaned like f**k about the style of play under GA and wished for some decent football to watch - and I think we really have that now, so I think we need to allow things to develop a bit. 

Today, we never really resorted to humping it aimlessly - we tried to play the right way and if we can try and calm things down in the box, I think we'll be absolutely fine this season (but probably won't finish that high up the table)

[capt_oats]

19 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

I mean it’s not as if it’s possession for possessions sake. We are creating plenty of chances but we’re simply not taking them. I’m not an XG nerd by any means but we must be setting records these last two games for chances created and somehow failing to score any of them.

Funny you mention xG (it's not for everyone, I know) as this came up on the TL and honestly, some laugh like...

Edited September 18, 2022 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

Hammell's post-match there saying the injuries "look likely to be bad ones"...

[rowsdower]

Hope Lamie's isn't included in that. The break may help us a little, but we're looking at either having mckinstry start, or switching to 2 up top.

I'm a traditionalist, so I'm all for the latter.

[Doctor Manhattan]

22 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

Hope Lamie's isn't included in that. The break may halpnis a little, but we're looking at either having mckinstry start, or switching to 2 up top.

I'm a traditionalist, so I'm all for the latter.

Imagine circumstances pretty much forced us to play 2 up top with Moult and van Veen? It could be stellar - while it lasted.

[Dosser2014]

3 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I sense a frustrating pattern to this season when we play nice stuff box to box but can't finish and can't defend...

Thats it for me. Hammell and Alexander are 2 opposite extremes. I might be reading this wrong but sense that most fans, not including me, will be happy with us struggling to 10th place, getting turfed out of both cups, but playing attractive football. 

[_MFC_1886]

Our lead up to the world cup looks like this

 

Celtic (A)

County (A)

Hibs (A)

Rangers (H)

Celtic (H) (Cup)

Aberdeen (H)

Utd (A)

Hearts (A)

Celtic (H)

St Johnstone (A)

 

That's going to be really tough but from what we've seen so far its not impossible we pick up points from County, Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Hibs or Utd. (Also not impossible we pick up none from then).

After that we'll have a better run of fixtures outwith the game at Ibrox that lasts until March. Fans just need to accept the upcoming fixtures are gonna be tough and they shouldn't turn on players or Hammell. Then after the break we'll be playing the likes of St mirren, Killie and Livi again.

[Allroy for Prez]

Our points total doesn’t reflect a lot of the good play we’ve produced so far but we’re chucking in far too many easy goals all over the place sadly as such we’re going to need to get something from Ross County and Hibs to atone for the glut of chances we’ve been unable to convert the past 2 games. 
 

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, Dosser2014 said:

Thats it for me. Hammell and Alexander are 2 opposite extremes. I might be reading this wrong but sense that most fans, not including me, will be happy with us struggling to 10th place, getting turfed out of both cups, but playing attractive football. 

I'm not sure tbh.

It's the sort of thing that folk invariably say they're fine with until they actually find themselves watching a team free-flowing their way into a relegation scrap. That said, it's far easier to get behind a team that's actually creating chances and I'd argue that for quite a few folk we're probably ahead of where they expected us to be after Sligo bodied us out of Europe.

I think Hammell's likely to get more leeway given who he is and also the circumstances around how he's landed in the job but ultimately his job is to actually manage.

Given the direction of travel at the moment ie: we're creating a shitload of chances but not converting them and coughing up cheap goals - then it's up to him to address and fix that. It's a different problem to solve than the one he had when he was appointed and had to pick up the pieces Alexander had left behind.

Listening to his post-match his chat about our defence is almost verbatim of what he said about the St Johnstone and Killie games....there's a point at which he's going to have to do something about it.