Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[welldaft]

45 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

I'm not advocating opening the wallet just for that one game against higher quality opposition. I'm just suggesting using some of what we've got to strengthen to at least give it a chance. McGinley starting and a bench with Goss and Efford on it does not inspire any confidence.

Getting players in early does not equate to a poorer standard than if we get them in later in the summer. A player secured for Q3 is with us to May 2023 at the earliest, that's 38 league games and you'd hope at least half a dozen in the cups.

While there was a bit of a gulf this season, I'd look at the targeted next step for us would be to get closer to and potentially challenge Hearts and not be papped out the cup by Dundee and Hibs. Europe is a lucrative but very tough sideline. Progression in the ECL brings with it cash windfalls beyond what a Cup Final would bring domestically. However, we need to show up on our best day and we've not been on song at all under Alexanders tenure.

I'd be surprised if Spittals wage isn't covered by and large by O'Hara's now he's off the books. A top end starter for us must command around the £3k a week/£150k a season mark. If we do secure the couple of positions Alexander talks about, I'd be wondering what's happening with the extra +£500k that must be in the coffers.

There's nowhere that says you can't do your business before Q3 and do it well. Of course some players will hold off to exhaust all opportunities and come deadline day some may take offers they wouldn't have countenanced months before and we could benefit from that. But as conveyed in countless articles and reference sources, UK based footballers are getting snapped up because of Brexit. I don't see the same number being around in late August as previous years.

I have it on good authority that the playing budget will be cut back. GA had a very healthy budget last year and to be fair despite the quality of the games he did achieve top 6 and Europe. 

My concern is that (he knows and admits) the defence was simply not good enough. Will Sol and Ojala benefit from pre season and become better and more reliable players. Quite possibly. But to have little or no movement in or out in that area surely means we can expect more of the same.

As has been pointed out if we are incredibly lucky and good we may make Europa Conference play off round. But group stages just ain’t going to happen. 

Hibs and Aberdeen are going to throw money at their problems. Hibs already have. They seem to have a bottomless pit. Kilmarnock will likely be better than Dundee. I expect a tough season next year if we do not strengthen over the next few weeks. 

In other news I see this beauty is now on sale in the Club Shop. Obviously trying to keep under the radar for some reason. As it will sell incredibly well imho…Trying to upload image.  But Covid had fried my brain. It is the 1/4 Zip Blair Spittal Training top 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by welldaft

[stu92]

25 minutes ago, welldaft said:

My concern is that (he knows and admits) the defence was simply not good enough. Will Sol and Ojala benefit from pre season and become better and more reliable players. Quite possibly. But to have little or no movement in or out in that area surely means we can expect more of the same.

 

Lamie and Mugabi were two players that very few fans would've wanted near the starting lineup when Alexander came in, but he seems to have turned them into pretty competent defenders. Love him or hate him as a manager he was obviously a half decent defender as a player, I don't think it would be beyond comprehension that he helps Sol and Ojala find another level this season.

I'm not expecting it, but it'd be nice.

[Kapowzer]

18 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I have it on good authority that the playing budget will be cut back. GA had a very healthy budget last year and to be fair despite the quality of the games he did achieve top 6 and Europe. 

My concern is that (he knows and admits) the defence was simply not good enough. Will Sol and Ojala benefit from pre season and become better and more reliable players. Quite possibly. But to have little or no movement in or out in that area surely means we can expect more of the same.

As has been pointed out if we are incredibly lucky and good we may make Europa Conference play off round. But group stages just ain’t going to happen. 

Hibs and Aberdeen are going to throw money at their problems. Hibs already have. They seem to have a bottomless pit. Kilmarnock will likely be better than Dundee. I expect a tough season next year if we do not strengthen over the next few weeks. 

In other news I see this beauty is now on sale in the Club Shop. Obviously trying to keep under the radar for some reason. As it will sell incredibly well imho…Trying to upload image.  But Covid had fried my brain. It is the 1/4 Zip Blair Spittal Training top 

Yeah that was a point I actually had typed and deleted. While we always officially and publicly budget for 10th the board privately expected top 6 which was achieved but did we speculate last summer to get us there? Was it a stipulation of GA coming in the January he'd have access to a certain warchest in 2021/22? We did probably push the boat out on Kelly and Slattery question is some of the pot we think we have this summer already been ringfenced to cover the activity of last summer?

Some of the spending last year could have been avoided, Amulazor, Niernnold while not breaking the bank came to the club as very outside punts and turn out they lived up to that. I just wish we'd stop padding out the squad with mediocre and pish filler.

Also, for the boys who need it for the w**k bank:

[Doctor Manhattan]

2 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

Also, for the boys who need it for the w**k bank:

I get the worrying feeling that that might be HIS cum face! 

[Ron Aldo]

Lamie and Mugabi were two players that very few fans would've wanted near the starting lineup when Alexander came in, but he seems to have turned them into pretty competent defenders. Love him or hate him as a manager he was obviously a half decent defender as a player, I don't think it would be beyond comprehension that he helps Sol and Ojala find another level this season.
I'm not expecting it, but it'd be nice.

Harsh as it may sound as he definitely did us a turn last season and was much improved from when he first joined but, a lot of the time, it struck me that Lamie simply seemed to be the least worst option.

We know what Lamie is capable of at both ends of the spectrum. At his very best he's nothing more than a serviceable defender at our level and at his worst he's a complete bombscare. He showed enough last season to the extent that I'm happy enough we're keeping him around but I'll start to get slightly worried if it seems we're going into the season having him as a first choice defender.

[CoF]

 

21 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Harsh as it may sound as he definitely did us a turn last season and was much improved from when he first joined but, a lot of the time, it struck me that Lamie simply seemed to be the least worst option.

We know what Lamie is capable of at both ends of the spectrum. At his very best he's nothing more than a serviceable defender at our level and at his worst he's a complete bombscare. He showed enough last season to the extent that I'm happy enough we're keeping him around but I'll start to get slightly worried if it seems we're going into the season having him as a first choice defender.

I seem to be in the minority in thinking Lamie is more than a serviceable defender. After a shaky start, I'd say he's proved himself as first choice. There isn't a defender in our budget who doesn't have a mistake in them, and he's no exception but there were plenty of games where he looked absolutely solid. 

Mind you, our defensive record was absolutely shite last year so maybe my eyes have deceived me. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

There’s a part of me that would be more worried about this season if Alexander did have the same budget / squad size as I think having lots of options last season had Alexander tying himself in knots finding his best team.

I think a lot of the problems in the team stemmed from the unsettled nature of the team.

Granted, there are certain players in the squad who aren’t ideal to have on the books for next season, but at least we’ve more chance of finding a rhythm in the team.

[eliphas]

I don't believe anything Alexander says to the press at all. He loves keeping stuff close to his chest. 

[thisGRAEME]

If you're under the impression that Nathan McGinley won't be playing a minimum of 25 to 30 games for us next season then you've only yourself to blame when you're disappointed.

I'd also be hugely surprised if we're aiming for the "quality" market ahead of the "educated punts" market this summer. 

[Kapowzer]

Ha yeah, I know there is a very strong possibility of that and I still don't understand his perseverance with him especially as a former defender himself. There is hope as he played Lamie & SOD there that penny has dropped with Carroll at least. My rage on a matchday can only cope with one bottle merchant on the park at a time so the idea of a Goss & McGinley combo gives me the seethe already.

As for the second point, I don't see why we shouldn't. The 9 players off the payroll easily cover Spittal, AN Other and a few punts if squad reduction is what is on the cards. The UEFA & SPFL money should open up the quality.

I don't know what to make of it Alexander is always cagey AF but he can't look at that team with the record since January and not think that he needs to get at least 4 decent acquisitions this summer otherwise I think he knows the fans (if not the board) was be baying for him.

[welldaft]

Well we have got Jubillee coming to Fir Park and we have signed two female players the past week….

Meanwhile Hibs and Aberdeen seem to signing one player a day or in the case of the Dons several players today.

No need to panic yet and we can always take solace in the apparent truth that GA thinks McGinley is one of the best defenders in the top flight….yeah I know. 

Been very quiet the social media team. Are the players back for pre season yet ? 

[capt_oats]

14 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Bevis as well, and fair play.

I see he's in Venice now. Absolutely fair play to him. He looks like he's having a lovely time.

[Marinello]

Seeing some speculation that Turnbull may be off to West Ham . 11 million being mentioned.

What part of the sell on are we due?

[Archie McSquackle]

I heard that earlier but didn't see anything online coming up so assumed it would be pish. Remember if we have a sell-on clause it's likely only to be on the profit over and above what we sold him for. I'm hoping his recent cap meant something came our way from Celtic.

[rowsdower]

Everyone is signing unknowns at the moment, so it's hard to tell if the numbers coming in at Aberdeen and hibs mean anything. I have to assume that the law of averages mean these signings won't also be shite, but who knows.

Considering where we are in the food chain, we may not be the first option for players who have the extra bit of quality that we need, so we may have to wait for movement elsewhere before we can get our targets.

Or, everyone is rejecting us because they saw that reply guy say GA is burning us to the (less sloped than before) ground.

Oh, some sell on clause money would be nice, as well as the option to enjoy watching DT again.

[CoF]

21 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

Oh, some sell on clause money would be nice, as well as the option to enjoy watching DT again.

Aye, would be nice to be able to hope he does well without simultaneously hoping his team are shite. 

As for the sell on fee, all sorts of assumptions here but if it's still active (they do expire) could be a decent sum - most seem to be 15-20%, if it's on the £8m above what Celtic paid then that's over a million. 

 

[eliphas]

9 hours ago, welldaft said:

Well we have got Jubillee coming to Fir Park and we have signed two female players the past week….

Meanwhile Hibs and Aberdeen seem to signing one player a day or in the case of the Dons several players today.

No need to panic yet and we can always take solace in the apparent truth that GA thinks McGinley is one of the best defenders in the top flight….yeah I know. 

Been very quiet the social media team. Are the players back for pre season yet ? 

Players back next week I believe but not 100% on that.

[capt_oats]

7 hours ago, CoF said:

Aye, would be nice to be able to hope he does well without simultaneously hoping his team are shite. 

As for the sell on fee, all sorts of assumptions here but if it's still active (they do expire) could be a decent sum - most seem to be 15-20%, if it's on the £8m above what Celtic paid then that's over a million. 

Sell-ons are generally worked out on profit so it wouldn't be over a million if it's an £8m fee.

It's been acknowledged that since he's been at Celtic some (possibly all?) of the add-ons in his deal have been triggered. It was rumoured that the total value of the deal was £3.5m so the sell on (let's say 15% for arguments sake) would be 15% of the profit £8m - £3.5m = (£4.5m /100)*15 = £675,000.

We're also due a % of the total transfer fee as part of FIFAs solidarity payment.

Basically 5% of any fee (through his entire career) is set aside and distributed pro-rata to his development club(s) up to the age of 23 so in this case us and Celtic. I can't remember the precise split but he was 21 when he left us and he turns 23 next month so I think it'd work out as something like 4% us and 1% Celtic as I've a feeling it's worked out in 0.5% increments.

Given we're due a solidarity payment you add in 4% of the £8m. So (£8m/100)*4 = £320,000.

Sell on = £675,000
Solidarity payment = £320,000

Total = £995,000

On the solidarity payment point it means that with Allan Campbell regardless of whether we negotiated a sell on % with Luton (IIRC the news story implied we'd agreed some sort of benefits) we're still due 5% of any fee he generates through his career.

Edited June 22, 2022 by capt_oats

[thisGRAEME]

9 hours ago, welldaft said:

Well we have got Jubillee coming to Fir Park and we have signed two female players the past week….

Meanwhile Hibs and Aberdeen seem to signing one player a day or in the case of the Dons several players today.

No need to panic yet and we can always take solace in the apparent truth that GA thinks McGinley is one of the best defenders in the top flight….yeah I know. 

Been very quiet the social media team. Are the players back for pre season yet ? 

Aberdeen and Hibs were also dreadful last season so very much need players. Given Hibs recruitment over the last 18 months, I'm less than terrified about them accidentally signing a centre half and a guy from the Portuguese second tier as well.

Our plan is clearly to not have to overhaul the squad every 12 months, and with the pandemic restrictions ending the need for a bigger squad does too.

Don't blame the social team for a light touch atm either, there's about 6 weeks a year where nothing is happening in scottish football, so you're either prepping for next season or taking the chance to sit still.

[CoF]

53 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Sell-ons are generally worked out on profit so it wouldn't be over a million if it's an £8m fee.

Ah, the rumour is £11m. That's where I got the £8m ish from.