Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

Don't get me wrong it was tremendous entertainment. The Higdon season was a great, big laugh at all times. 

Still get annoyed about our cup performances though. 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

The "I enjoyed myself in the early 2010's, so Stuart McCall is alright by me" hill is one I'm quite happy to die on, presumably on my own

Nah, I'd be with you on that one.

Could we have done better in the cups? Absolutely. But you consider how many folk feel now, while on the brink of Europe (no snickering at the back) and I just can't help but think 'cheers' for those two seasons (not 2013/14, amazing as the end was). Not only were you turning up confident of winning, you were turning up confident of winning by two or three while being fair entertained...it's not quite once in a lifetime stuff for us but rare enough that for me the good still outweighs the bad.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

Either way I really, really fucking hope we don't get another season of this eye-bleeding pish. 

See, I reckon at the end of season review there are some pretty unavoidable questions. There's going to be some sort of resolution one way or another.

The whole 1 win in 15 in the league is the obvious one but beyond that, because the season has been so weirdly polarised there's pretty much zero grey area.

Since the winter break we've scored markedly fewer goals and have conceded more (conceding 1.8 GAPG vs 1.35 in the opening 20 games). Regardless of whether everyone's happy that KPIs have been met, the root causes need addressed.

It's been said often on here that we're not sacking a manager because of the style of play. However if it's framed in a different way ie: "Dude, 1 win in 15?! What the actual f**k?!" and "how, precisely, do you address that and fix it?" then it really depends on whether we like/accept the answers.

To be clear up to the winter break in the league we were:

P 20 GF 25 GA 27 PPG 1.55

Number of games failed to score: 4

Number of clean sheets: 6

Post-winter break:

P 15 GF 14 GA 27 PPG 0.6

Number of games failed to score: 6

Number of clean sheets: 1

One is legitimate European qualifying form, the other is actual relegation form.

The irony isn't lost on me that County have effectively had our season in reverse (1 win in their opening 12, 8 losses) so despite only being a point ahead of us everyone's blowing smoke up the big ol' racist and anti-semite because they've hit form towards the end of the season while everyone and their dug are queuing up to give Alexander pelters because we're very much not in form.

Edited May 4, 2022 by capt_oats

[RostokMcSpoons]

50 minutes ago, Swello said:

The "I enjoyed myself in the early 2010's, so Stuart McCall is alright by me" hill is one I'm quite happy to die on, presumably on my own

With you on that.  Especially when you remember him rolling over so we could tickle his belly through those two crucial play-off games.   Cheers pal!

[Hoose Rice]

11 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

So who felt up Leeann? Us or someone at yours?

I’m going for Shagger Broon or Stu McCall when pissed (always).  Stubbsy was too interested in our physio and Dempster loves Petrie. Could be creepy jack I suppose. 

[Ron Aldo]

Despite the Albion Rovers and Rangers games, the angriest I've been at the football both happened under him, I can't bring myself to slate McCall TBH.
That was probably the most fun I've had following us all over the place and a wee clip of a Higdon goal, or Faddy scoring against Hibs or seeing Ojaama's shitey wee pistols celebration still gives me the rosy glow years later. McCall wasn't a managerial genius but he gave us a really good team to watch which happens really rarely (to my mind, his best team was one of only 4 genuinely good teams we've had in our current top flight spell of 35 years+)
That team was a result of overspending and so was McGhee's first team - but you'd have to go way back to McLean in the pre-bosman 90's to find a great team that was built without going into the red.
The "I enjoyed myself in the early 2010's, so Stuart McCall is alright by me" hill is one I'm quite happy to die on, presumably on my own [emoji4]

This sums it up for me. The games were generally great fun regardless of the result, the likes of Higdon and Ojamaa were brilliant and there was a genuine feeling that if the opposition scored 3 we could score 4. Basically the 12/13 Motherwell team was pretty much everything our current team isn't.

I'm still unsure how to describe Mccall as a manager. I sometimes think he got lucky with the players he had / could bring in but the squad that he took to 2nd place in 13/14 was genuinely shocking when you look back at it so maybe he did have something.

['WellDel]

8 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

See, I reckon at the end of season review there are some pretty unavoidable questions. There's going to be some sort of resolution one way or another.

The whole 1 win in 15 in the league is the obvious one but beyond that, because the season has been so weirdly polarised there's pretty much zero grey area.

Since the winter break we've scored markedly fewer goals and have conceded more (conceding 1.8 GAPG vs 1.35 in the opening 20 games). Regardless of whether everyone's happy that KPIs have been met, the root causes need addressed.

It's been said often on here that we're not sacking a manager because of the style of play. However if it's framed in a different way ie: "Dude, 1 win in 15?! What the actual f**k?!" and "how, precisely, do you address that and fix it?" then it really depends on whether we like/accept the answers.

To be clear up to the winter break in the league we were:

P 20 GF 25 GA 27 PPG 1.55

Number of games failed to score: 4

Number of clean sheets: 6

Post-winter break:

P 15 GF 14 GA 27 PPG 0.6

Number of games failed to score: 6

Number of clean sheets: 1

One is legitimate European qualifying form, the other is actual relegation form.

The irony isn't lost on me that County have effectively had our season in reverse so despite only being a point ahead of us everyone's blowing smoke up the big ol' racist and anti-semite because they've hit form towards the end of the season while everyone and their dug are queuing up to give Alexander pelters because we're very much not in form.

I think the contrast is in how both teams' differing forms have come to be. From County's point of view, McKay was new in the door so, with new manager, new players and new system/style etc, it's understandable that they took a bit longer to get going. After that 10 game run though, they've proved to be on the whole a very decent, solid outfit and deserve to be where they are. On the few occasions I've seen them I've got to say I've been fairly impressed by how he has them playing. From that point of view, big racist Malk' deserves a bit of credit for how he's made an undoubted success of it.

Alexander, on the other hand, despite a bit of player churn, already had 6 months under his belt and had already worked with a fair amount of the squad, yet his system has remained the same turgid shite throughout, and gets worse to watch with each passing week. We undoubtedly lucked our way to a few points pre-Christmas, but the tail off since the restart has been truly shocking. He's got the great Laminho to thank for that late, late winner at Livi, because if he didn't have his "We don't get enough credit for making the top 6" schtick to hide behind after every defeat and we'd been in the bottom half, I think fan pressure and an honest admission that it's failing by the board would have had him removed already. 

He's lost his way to the same level results wise as both McCall and Robinson did before they ducked out. It's time he admitted it and made the same decision. 

[Handsome_Devil]

16 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

He's lost his way to the same level results wise as both McCall and Robinson did before they ducked out. It's time he admitted it and made the same decision. 

One of the things which surprised me about Monday's rumour was, to coin the cliche, we're not a sacking club. Both McCall and Robinson - having been here for a while, they were obviously done - had been talked out of resigning at least once and would have been kept on had they not insisted it time to go.

GA, as awful as we've been this year, has been here half the time, and has various alibis to call on his defence. He may well believe he's fucked it and needs to bail but should he believe in his excuses and circumstances, and insist he can turn it round over summer, us deciding otherwise and sacking him with three years on his contract is a hell of a change from the approach to McCall/Robbo.

[santheman]

2 hours ago, well fan for life said:

Don't get me wrong it was tremendous entertainment. The Higdon season was a great, big laugh at all times. 

Still get annoyed about our cup performances though. 

First time in years I went to away games expecting to win rather than just hoping

[capt_oats]

Something that I'd completely forgotten until the other day when I was looking up the 17/18 season was that we made pretty much the same contract move with Robinson as we did with Alexander albeit Robinson's was a shorter initial deal.

We actually extended Robinson's deal after 7 months in the job.

When Robinson got the job permanently it was in March 2017 on a deal until May 2018. https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2017/03/15/robinson-appointed-motherwell-boss/

That was then extended in October 2017 to 2020. https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2017/10/13/robinson-signs-extended-deal/

He subsequently signed an additional extension in 2019 through to 2022. https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2019/07/18/management-duo-extend-their-stay/

Edited May 4, 2022 by capt_oats

[one m in Motherwell]

Any recollection of who was in for the job before Robinson getting it permanently?

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

Any recollection of who was in for the job before Robinson getting it permanently?

I'm going to hazard a guess at Big Mitch and Simo...was Luc Nijholt still a thing then?

[capt_oats]

22 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

Any recollection of who was in for the job before Robinson getting it permanently?

Simo - https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15124784.exclusive-simo-valakari-makes-case-motherwell-job-mark-mcghee-exits/
Hughes - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/motherwell-shortlist-five-in-manager-10031015

Quote

Hughes admits he could have abandoned Raith to succeed Mark McGhee at Motherwell before Stevie Robinson got the job in March.

"“When I was at Raith Rovers I had the chance to go to Motherwell but didn’t because of my loyalty and honesty. How could you walk out when they’ve asked you to come in and help them out? They were struggling so I stayed there. That was one opportunity."

Link

Was there not chat that Lasley had thrown his hat in as well?

Edited May 4, 2022 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

46 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

One of the things which surprised me about Monday's rumour was, to coin the cliche, we're not a sacking club. Both McCall and Robinson - having been here for a while, they were obviously done - had been talked out of resigning at least once and would have been kept on had they not insisted it time to go.

GA, as awful as we've been this year, has been here half the time, and has various alibis to call on his defence. He may well believe he's fucked it and needs to bail but should he believe in his excuses and circumstances, and insist he can turn it round over summer, us deciding otherwise and sacking him with three years on his contract is a hell of a change from the approach to McCall/Robbo.

Aye, I think failing to make the top six, on top of the 1 win in 15, might have been enough to tip the scale against him with the added unrest that would have caused and with season ticket renewal due etc. . As it is, he won't be punted with so long left of his contract and base targets met.

A frank admission behind the scenes from both parties that it's not working and an amicable public parting of the ways is the only way he will move on. As said before, if he fancies his chances at a vacancy back south during the summer, that might be our out once the season concludes.

Hopefully......

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Was there not chat that Lasley had thrown his hat in as well?

I'd be surprised if he hadn't but I think Aaron Chapman day put many, many nails in that coffin. 

[Desp]

I see they've removed the regionalisation from the League Cup group stages next season.

If we end up in at that stage, I bet we'll still get Morton & Annan in our group.

[Neil86]

2 hours ago, one m in Motherwell said:

Any recollection of who was in for the job before Robinson getting it permanently?

Craigan was it not?

[capt_oats]

29 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

Craigan was it not?

Nah, Craigan ruled himself out pretty early that time around.

Quote

Craigan said: “I’ve said clearly that it’s not for me, I don’t want it.

“Stephen Robinson will take the game on Saturday. Myself and James McFadden will give him all the support that he needs.

Link

His name was more around the job when he was caretaker after Baraclough left. Even then he was always pretty arms length about it,

Quote

"Asked if he wanted the job full-time, Craigan said: “If you told me that for the next five years I’d have to go through that every Saturday I’d probably say no, not for me. That’s my instinct at the minute. You can’t enjoy that. My Saturdays over the last three years have been a lot more enjoyable than what that one was.”

“It’s something I’ll really have to sit down and look at,” he said. “I’ve got some good jobs at the minute. My job with the Motherwell under-20s. My work with BT Sport is terrific. So there would be a lot for me to give up. I understand the bug of winning. That’s the drug, that’s what football is all about. That’s the feeling you want every week."

Link

Edited May 4, 2022 by capt_oats

[Swello]

23 minutes ago, Desp said:

I see they've removed the regionalisation from the League Cup group stages next season.

If we end up in at that stage, I bet we'll still get Morton & Annan in our group.

My ambition to see us achieve a game at Links Park has just taken a step closer....

Peterhead, Elgin, Cove also acceptable.

[ropy]

34 minutes ago, Swello said:

My ambition to see us achieve a game at Links Park has just taken a step closer....

Peterhead, Elgin, Cove also acceptable.

Almost worth chucking the next 3 games to see it happen