Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Kapowzer]

8 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

IIRC the reports from the folk who were at the AGM in February were that we were looking at 5 max.

I have no issue with only 5 coming in if we use 10 current wages to fund them and therefore potentially get a higher quality player.

The issue this summer is to find 5 starters from that 5 limit, we have enough "could do a job in a pinch" or backups already on longer contracts. Most of us would be happy for a number our current squad to drop to the bench if we have any aspirations of improvement. Put it this way if McGinley does any more than warm it next season I'll just give up football and take up golf again.

Europe would always help get us on a few more radars. 2 games to show how much we really want it.

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

I have no issue with only 5 coming in if we use 10 current wages to fund them and therefore potentially get a higher quality player.

The issue this summer is to find 5 starters from that 5 limit, we have enough "could do a job in a pinch" or backups already on longer contracts. Most of us would be happy for a number our current squad to drop to the bench if we have any aspirations of improvement. Put it this way if McGinley does any more than warm it next season I'll just give up football and take up golf again.

Aye, that's the way I see it.

If we're bringing in 5 to go into the starting XI and it means say, McGinley, Goss and Efford are being bumped down to the bench then fine. That's kind of how I imagined it going forward when Burrows was making his sales pitch for the thinking behind the change in strategy when he did the interview on the MFC Podcast last summer.

[Kapowzer]

That's the rub though, very hard to get your recruitment to all collectively work from day one.

looking at this seasons acquisitions:

• Kelly - 100% worked
• Ojala - When he's not been crocked he's generally been used
• Sol - Only really of late he's been dropped
• Nierrnold - Fail
• Slattery - Rollercoaster, no need to revisit
• Goss - Solid 90' every week from signing but that's dropped off a bit in the past 10 games
• Woolery - Same as above, kinda, been used more off the bench as an impact player. Certainly improved from July
• Connor Shields - GW11 to nail down a run of starts then it has been bitty until the last three games where he's got significant game time
• KVV - Pretty much involved in most he's been available for
• Amulazor - Fail
• Roberts - Fail
• Parker - Fail
• Efford - Based on his selection (not always contribution) he does fulfil the direct entry requirement
• Tierney - Been drip fed in like Shields

Others:

• Mahon - Too early to say
• Shaw - Loan but fail

So we're looking at 2 work in progress but hopeful (Shields and Tierney)

4 failures (possibly three as Parker was never more than the wildest of punts)

8 wins of which only Kelly you'd argue hit the ground running and showed consistency, could have argued that for Slattery if it wasn't for Jan to March, 4 others have got significant game time partly through avoiding injury.

 

Based on that if we get only 5 in, we're looking at 1 reliable definite starter, 3 in the mix and one dud.

We are also due back a few who may be able to do a job in Maguire, Johnson, O'Connor (maybe) and Devine

[capt_oats]

Fwiw, here's the squad in order of minutes played this season.

['WellDel]

21 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

That's the rub though, very hard to get your recruitment to all collectively work from day one.

looking at this seasons acquisitions:

• Kelly - 100% worked
• Ojala - When he's not been crocked he's generally been used
• Sol - Only really of late he's been dropped
• Nierrnold - Fail
• Slattery - Rollercoaster, no need to revisit
• Goss - Solid 90' every week from signing but that's dropped off a bit in the past 10 games
• Woolery - Same as above, kinda, been used more off the bench as an impact player. Certainly improved from July
• Connor Shields - GW11 to nail down a run of starts then it has been bitty until the last three games where he's got significant game time
• KVV - Pretty much involved in most he's been available for
• Amulazor - Fail
• Roberts - Fail
• Parker - Fail
• Efford - Based on his selection (not always contribution) he does fulfil the direct entry requirement
• Tierney - Been drip fed in like Shields

Others:

• Mahon - Too early to say
• Shaw - Loan but fail

So we're looking at 2 work in progress but hopeful (Shields and Tierney)

4 failures (possibly three as Parker was never more than the wildest of punts)

8 wins of which only Kelly you'd argue hit the ground running and showed consistency, could have argued that for Slattery if it wasn't for Jan to March, 4 others have got significant game time partly through avoiding injury.

 

Based on that if we get only 5 in, we're looking at 1 reliable definite starter, 3 in the mix and one dud.

We are also due back a few who may be able to do a job in Maguire, Johnson, O'Connor (maybe) and Devine

I think your summation of the likelihood of success in the summer recruitment is pretty accurate. Of every 5 brought in in recent seasons, 1 good, 3 average and 1 diddy is close to our usual hit rate, but there are so many IF's going forward. 

IF Sol and Ojala can stay fit and live up to the partnership that looked so promising earlier in the season. 

IF Slattery and Woolery can gey a run and perform consistently, and KVV regularly hit the level he is capable of.

IF the likes of O'Connor and Johnson can come back and provide adequate cover from the bench.

IF Tierney and Mahon can fulfill the potential they have. (I think Tierney, at least, definitely will).

IF we are looking in the regions of 5 additions, 3 'in the mix' and a dud simply isn't an option. At least 2 or 3 need to come in and instantly nail down a place and raise the standard. It's crucial that he gets a couple, at least, of his signings bang on the money, otherwise we'll be sitting here this time next year with the exact same gripes, or worse.

[D-Fens Foster]

Was at the game yesterday and i just can’t deal with this anymore. What is it now still one win since boxing day ?? 
Really hope he leaves asap. When we hit the post in the first half ye just knew it was a United victory all day long. 
Had a few other Well fans say “If Alexander goes who do we bring in ?” 
Fucking anybody outside Malpas !! Alexander is an absolute weapon

[fat_tony]

  Page 1482

Awww. Look how young and naïve we were. So full of optimism. [emoji23]

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, 'WellDel said:

IF we are looking in the regions of 5 additions, 3 'in the mix' and a dud simply isn't an option. At least 2 or 3 need to come in and instantly nail down a place and raise the standard. It's crucial that he gets a couple, at least, of his signings bang on the money, otherwise we'll be sitting here this time next year with the exact same gripes, or worse.

I'd imagine that's the driving factor behind the change in strategy. The way we were operating with Robinson was unsustainable.

It feels like it's stating the obvious but if you're looking at needing to sign fewer players then you can actually spend more time working on those deals. Although that didn't exactly work out in the end for McCall in 14/15.

If you're having year on year rebuilds then it's an unfortunate fact that some of those players are simply going to be squad filler.

This season for example, it's almost certain that we signed a handful of players simply to allow us to get through the Betfreds as up to that point we were running with actual school weans on the bench.

In terms of numbers these are what we've signed each summer window (or close to it in Samson, Lucas, Mugabi and Chapman's case) over the past 10 years:

21/22 (Alexander) - 12 (Shields, Amaluzor, Woolery, Van Veen, Kelly, O'Connor, Parker, Slattery, Ojala, Goss, Johansen, Roberts (loan))
20/21 (Robinson) - 11 (Lamie, White, McGinley, Fox, O'Hara, O'Donnell, Cole, Chapman, Hastie (loan), Lang (loan) Crawford (loan))
19/20 (Robinson) - 13 (Gallagher, Polworth, Carroll, Sloth, Hylton, Long, Seedorf, Ilic, Manzinga, MacIver, Cole (loan), O'Hara (loan) Mugabi)
18/19 (Robinson) - 8 (Gillespie, Donnelly, Johnson, Taylor-Sinclair, Gorrin, Mbulu, Sammon (loan), Aldred (loan))
17/18 (Robinson) - 14 (Fisher, Bigirimana, Tanner, Carson, Rose, Griffiths, Dunne, Kipré, Newell, Plummer, Ferguson, Petravicius, Grimshaw, Hartley (loan))
16/17 (McGhee) - 9 (Heneghan, Tait, Blyth, Brill, McHugh, Clay, Bowman, Belic (loan), Lucas)
15/16 (Baraclough) - 11 (Chalmers, Clarkson, Fletcher, Laing, Moult, Kennedy, Robinson, Ripley (loan), Taylor (loan), Grimshaw (loan) Samson)
14/15 (McCall) - 5 (Law, Twardzik, Ainsworth, Ojamma, (loan), O'Brien (loan))
13/14 (McCall) - 8 (Lawson, Vigurs, Sutton, Kerr, Nielsen, McManus, Anier (loan), Ainsworth (loan))
12/13 (McCall) -  2 (Ramsden, Kerr (loan) 
11/12 (McCall) - 9 (Devlin, Higdon, Law, Cummins, Hetherington, Francis-Angol, Mekongo, Clancy, Daley)

Edited May 1, 2022 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

12 minutes ago, fat_tony said:

 

 

Awww. Look how young and naïve we were. So full of optimism.

 

Yeah some amount who were happy to shithouse results who are now suddenly football purists.

[Casagolda]

It was certainly ugly early doors but I suppose that wasn’t a surprise. We were bedding in a lot of new players, a fair number of whom like Slattery, Sol, Ojala, Shields etc missed most of pre-season. 

It was always going to be a bit clunky and getting a few wins on the board by any means was fine. Then after a wee wobbly spell in October, I thought we hit our stride in November/December and were beginning to look like a decent outfit. 

I mean that Dens Park game aside, we only conceded 3 goals in the other 7 games and kept 4 clean sheets. We battered the likes of Hearts, Utd(in farcical conditions) and were comfortable winners against Saints and Livi. 

Other than Watt leaving, f**k knows what’s happened? How you go from that to one clean sheet and one league win this year is genuinely fucking mental.  

Edited May 1, 2022 by Casagolda

[fat_tony]

There's a certain satisfaction that can be taken from being a side who totally shitfests their way up the table.

I think we'd all prefer something like the peak McGhee (first spell) or McCall sides, but had we kept picking up points while having 29% possession after Christmas it would be harder to argue against it than it is now.

[ropy]

When we were winning games we just did enough, when it came to top six, we just did enough.  Could we do enough for Europe?

I suspect we may pick up some points in the next two games but County will beat United on the last day and it will all be for naught.

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

It was certainly ugly early doors but I suppose that wasn’t a surprise. We were bedding in a lot of new players, a fair number of whom like Slattery, Sol, Ojala, Shields etc missed most of pre-season. 

It was always going to be a bit clunky and getting a few wins on the board by any means was fine. Then after a wee wobbly spell in October, I thought we looked hit our stride in November/December and were beginning to look like a decent outfit. 

I mean that Dens Park game aside, we only conceded 3 goals in the other 7 games and kept 4 clean sheets. We battered the likes of Hearts, Utd(in farcical conditions) and were comfortable winners against Saints and Livi. 

Other than Watt leaving, f**k knows what’s happened? How you go from that to one clean sheet and one league win this year is genuinely fucking mental.  

This is fundamentally where I am.

As I've said before, I've no strong opinion on Alexander. I think he's a decent enough manager for this level and his record over the calendar year for 2021 (especially given the circumstances) is over far too long a period to just dismiss it as luck or a "fluke". Also the turnaround in goalscoring of Cole and Watt along with Lamie becoming a serviceable centre back suggests he has something as a coach.

However, it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask what the f**k has happened since January with changes in shape, players being disappeared from the team, a relatively efficient team suddenly not converting chances despite having more attempts on goal and us now seemingly unable to keep a clean sheet against any opposition.

You can put a certain amount of it down to Watt leaving as he was a "difference maker" in the same way Boyle was for Hibs. The fact that we're drawing games we were previously winning leans into that idea and the fact that we apparently thought we could get by until summer with what we had feels like a massive misjudgement (in the same way we misjudged the LC group albeit still finished top of the group in the end).

One other thing I did wonder is it's simply the case that he's not a particularly adaptable manager. A big part of managing in Scotland compared to the level he's learned his trade in England is that the opposition work you out quicker and you generally have to be able to adapt quickly. You don't get the luxury of having only 2 games against each side.

Much like his pal at St Johnstone Alexander just seems to be plodding along doing the same thing.

Edited May 1, 2022 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

@RandomGuy. is good for a stat and often came on here before Xmas showing that the numbers said we were totally overachieving. A lot of was was because you'd expect from a certain amount of our shots, only a few to be target and lesser still to be converted to goals. As it turned out we were occasionally having 2 shots and scoring from both, so 100%. Thar has a habit of skewing the numbers slightly.

Would be interested to see if our tally in the third round was on target or below what the stats said we should have had. 

@capt_oats can't get my head round SOD being third in that transfermarkt list, had it in my head he's missed a lot more than he obvious has. Just goes to show in periods of extreme trauma our brains blank shit out.

As for Ross County on Saturday, we have no right to expect a win when they are the form team in the league. I certainly won't be losing my shit on a forum if the game is a 50-50 and defined by a couple of fine margins calls. However, if it's 1-1 and we go on to lose 3-1 against 10 men I'll happily join in the effigy burning.

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

@capt_oats can't get my head round SOD being third in that transfermarkt list, had it in my head he's missed a lot more than he obvious has. Just goes to show in periods of extreme trauma our brains blank shit out.

Aye, it's across all comps so the fact we pretty much threw him straight into the Betfreds after the Euros probably plays a part in why he's as high.

Given all the general conversation about him I was quite surprised to see Slattery is our midfielder with the most minutes. Same thing with Woolery as well.

[Busta Nut]

58 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Yeah some amount who were happy to shithouse results who are now suddenly football purists.

This isn't news to anyone either. I am sure people would swap a period where we shithouse every game 1-0 for a period where we are a shithouse.

The "yeez were happy then" attitude is also wee guy behaviour. We know how happy we were winning. We knew how shit we were while doing it. Being proud of it is all part of the shithouse bravado.

People are allowed to change their mind especially when it is not getting the previous positive results. Football fans are notoriously fickle. I am shocked this new to you.

[Kapowzer]

Not news no but a bit rich, nice to know anyone who doesn't share your thinking is a wee guy or tedious.

[Londonwell]

Fwiw I couldn’t stand Alexander even back when we were fluking a few wins. Marks you out as a right miserable b*****d though to moan when the team is seen to be doing ‘well’. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Londonwell

[Busta Nut]

18 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Not news no but a bit rich, nice to know anyone who doesn't share your thinking is a wee guy or tedious.

Apologies, I didn't mean to upset you. I just thought the way you were presenting the "look what you said months ago" type stuff was a bit poor as we all know how the situation has evolved.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Kapowzer said:

@RandomGuy. is good for a stat and often came on here before Xmas showing that the numbers said we were totally overachieving. A lot of was was because you'd expect from a certain amount of our shots, only a few to be target and lesser still to be converted to goals. As it turned out we were occasionally having 2 shots and scoring from both, so 100%. Thar has a habit of skewing the numbers slightly.

Would be interested to see if our tally in the third round was on target or below what the stats said we should have had. 

Thing I was updated to track this has been neglected since the 25th of March, tbh, but this was the final standings it predicted at that time.