Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[santheman]

The worst feeling for me in football is coming out of a game you have just lost because a referee has given a goal to the opposition that should never have been allowed.

Conversely, the best feeling for me is coming out of a game you have just won because the referee has just awarded us a goal that should never have been allowed. 

Guess it's down to what scenario gives you the most pain/pleasure.

[Antiochas III]

28 minutes ago, Blink182 said:

As someone else mentioned I think Scotland is the only country in the top 25 European Leagues that doesn't have VAR (or due to have it). 

It's part of modern football. Time to move with the times instead of another moan about the glory days and how it used to be.

 

 

Are you in favour of B teams as well then?  

[welldaft]

It is clear to most what the advantages and disadvantages of VAR are. If it is not we have foremost experts in the field such as Al B to keep us on track. Thank goodness as where we would be otherwise

We have seen it operate in England, Europe and Internationals for long enough to know how it works and form a decent opinion. My only involvement as a fan was when Dykes scored for Scotland v Israel at Hampden and it was disallowed. But on review the referee awarded the goal thankfully and we went on to win 3-2. One notable example of where it works and worked well. 

It is clear and somewhat unsurprising there is a split of views. As there always are. It appears as if the NO camp however seem to think they are simply correct and are painstakingly explaining their reasons why, as if those in the YES camp are simply wrong and there are few benefits to VAR being introduced to the Scottish Premiership. Q the rebuttals any moment now…….

[Desp]

43 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I think that it will be a centralised service, with referees reviewing feeds of the game from a central location. Which I would assume will reduce the number of referees required.

So what happens for Saturday 3pm games?  Unlikely, granted, but what if incidents (goal, penalty shout, red card incident) all happen with 60 seconds of each other at three different grounds?  Does Fir Park need to go *on hold* because the refs are tied up with the incidents at Tynecastle & Pittodrie?

If they don't have the staff to actually staff it properly, get it in the bin.

[craigkillie]

43 minutes ago, Blink182 said:

As someone else mentioned I think Scotland is the only country in the top 25 European Leagues that doesn't have VAR (or due to have it). 

It's part of modern football. Time to move with the times instead of another moan about the glory days and how it used to be.

I'm for VAR and think it's a good time to join on after a few seasons for other leagues to sort out the mess it was to begin with. As discussed it should be there to check for any clear and obvious errors and offsides. If it takes a minute or 2 then fine. I'd rather have the right decision made slowly than the wrong one quickly. 

People not celebrating a goal as much I don't get either. Unless there's been a clear foul why wouldn't you celebrate as normal. Plus you have the added enjoyment of a VAR sometimes taking a goal away from the opposition to celebrate after their initial celebration which can be a bonus.

Because VAR picks up on lots of things that aren't clear fouls, and lots of goals which seem absolutely fine at the time are subsequently disallowed. The most obvious example of it was the Man City goal against Spurs in the Champions League QF a few years ago. Last minute goal goes in, absolutely no suggestion anything could be wrong with it, then it's discovered that a shite backpass from a Spurs player took a wee tiny deflection off a Man City player and therefore played his teammate offside. A technically correct decision, and incredibly funny, but an example of VAR ruining a celebration even though there wasn't a clear foul.

I've been at a few games now where VAR has been used, and I simply can't celebrate a goal the same way because I always think there might have been a foul in the build-up. Callum McGregor against Croatia, Scott McTominay against Israel, Che Adams against Denmark, all massive goals, but all goals I was worried might be disallowed for some reason or another.

[CoF]

44 minutes ago, Blink182 said:

People not celebrating a goal as much I don't get either. Unless there's been a clear foul why wouldn't you celebrate as normal. 

 

 

VAR doesn't always pick out the fouls that are immediately obvious from the stands (or even the pitch). When it was first introduced it sucked the life out of goals, you could see players and fans just holding back that little bit because there was uncertainty. Thankfully they seem to be getting the balance right and the utterly pedantic calls are less and less. It's only good as the officials using it though....

[Desp]

9 minutes ago, welldaft said:

It is clear to most what the advantages and disadvantages of VAR are. If it is not we have foremost experts in the field such as Al B to keep us on track. Thank goodness as where we would be otherwise

We have seen it operate in England, Europe and Internationals for long enough to know how it works and form a decent opinion. My only involvement as a fan was when Dykes scored for Scotland v Israel at Hampden and it was disallowed. But on review the referee awarded the goal thankfully and we went on to win 3-2. One notable example of where it works and worked well. 

It is clear and somewhat unsurprising there is a split of views. As there always are. It appears as if the NO camp however seem to think they are simply correct and are painstakingly explaining their reasons why, as if those in the YES camp are simply wrong and there are few benefits to VAR being introduced to the Scottish Premiership. Q the rebuttals any moment now…….

You've had one experience of VAR as a fan.  The same as me.  You've liked it because the major decision used via VAR went the way of your team.  What if the next seven go against your team?  

Nobody is saying you're incorrect in that "VAR will get decisions correct", but like @craigkillie demonstrates above, VAR getting involved in the decision ultimately has a negative impact on the match going supporter.  Whether it's better or worse for the TV viewer is quite frankly fucking irrelevant to us on here, because I assume the majority of us are regulars at games.  

I don't see how it's going to benefit the average punter going to a Scottish football game.  They'll still complain about the referee, they'll still say this, or that, is against them.  It will drive fans away from the top flight, IMO.

[welldaft]

11 minutes ago, Desp said:

You've had one experience of VAR as a fan.  The same as me.  You've liked it because the major decision used via VAR went the way of your team.  What if the next seven go against your team?  

If the next 7 go against Motherwell then I might not like it, but if they are the correct decisions I will accept it. What I don’t like is appalling and clearly skewed / biased (old firm mainly) decisions going against my team with no recourse not during or as importantly after the game.

As stated I was at the Israel game. I celebrated each goal by going mental as normal. Especially the McTominay winner. With the Dykes goal we even got to celebrate twice .

As someone else has mentioned we will also be able to celebrate Celtic and Rangers or any opposing goals being chalked off. The comments about Motherwell scoring and 4000 people sitting waiting patiently for a minute or two to celebrate is just nonsense. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by welldaft

[Allroy for Prez]

I’m massively against VAR for all the reasons @Al B has outlined and if “Alexanderball” hadn’t scunnered me into never returning then the introduction of VAR absolutely will. 

[Desp]

5 minutes ago, welldaft said:

As someone else has mentioned we will also be able to celebrate Celtic and Rangers or any opposing goals being chalked off. 

Is that before or after we clap the away support when the travelling number is announced...? 

[Al B]

3 hours ago, welldaft said:

The whole point of VAR is that it is there to look at contentious decisions. Not every incident or goal will be reviewed.

 

3 hours ago, Al B said:

That's not correct I'm afraid.

 

3 hours ago, welldaft said:

Pedantics imho

 

3 hours ago, Al B said:

Every single goal that occurs in a match where VAR is used, gets checked by VAR.

 

36 minutes ago, welldaft said:

we have foremost experts in the field such as Al B to keep us on track. Thank goodness as where we would be otherwise

I know you mentioned not wanting to come across as arrogant, but your weird, sarky reaction to being incorrect about something would suggest that ship has sailed...

[Al B]

47 minutes ago, welldaft said:

 It appears as if the NO camp however seem to think they are simply correct and are painstakingly explaining their reasons why, as if those in the YES camp are simply wrong and there are few benefits to VAR being introduced.

On the contrary, I think everyone acknowledges that the amount of correct decisions will increase hugely from using VAR. I think some people are just surprised to find that there's actually a (very large, if the reactions and discussions amongst fans across the board) percentage of fans that don't want them to.

[Mr. Brightside]

The only time I have seen VAR used and it not be a total joke was the Euros and funnily enough it's probably because they were being a bit more lenient than usual. In the EPL it is awful and they still don't get decisions correct, the same can be said for Serie A although correct decisions seem to be made more often. I've not watched much La Liga so can't really comment and the Bundesliga probably does it best, but even still it is painfully slow and still not clear for the fans inside the stadium. 

The one thing I can think of to improve VAR would be to limit replays to one or two views at full speed, because otherwise it's not really clear and obvious, is it?

[West End Well]

First time posting, but I have a friend who is a top tier ref. He has been training on the VAR setup at hampden for months, both as a ref working with a VAR and as a VAR reviewing the video feed. Hawkeye are also advertising for technicians to operate the system in Scotland. And the SFA are very keen for it to go ahead as their officials won’t be represented at major tournaments which use VAR if they aren’t working with it domestically  

The main problem seems likely to be a shortage of officials as at least an extra 2 refs are required for each game (an assistant VAR to continue watching the action while a VAR review is going on). I would suggest that we can’t really afford to dilute a very weak talent pool any further so I’m against it 

[thisGRAEME]

40 minutes ago, Desp said:

Is that before or after we clap the away support when the travelling number is announced...? 

Actually really pleased some folk around me in the main stand have started joining in with me booing.

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, Mr. Brightside said:

Getting VAR because other leagues have it has got to be the worst reason going.

Sorry but this is actually "Douglas Ross won't get to go on wee jollies!".

[welldaft]

3 hours ago, Al B said:

Try all you like!

I tried….

37 minutes ago, Al B said:

I know you mentioned not wanting to come across as arrogant, but your weird, sarky reaction to being incorrect about something would suggest that ship has sailed...

Quite easy really…….

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I feel the Society/Club should be doing a ballot at the very least.  Emails soliciting for fans' views is probably more than most other clubs are doing but it should still only be the first part of a much more of a transparent process IMO.

I don't think my monthly fiver should get me a vote on the starting lineup every Saturday but it probably should stretch to a say in the biggest change to the rules in this country since they introduced the passback law.

[Swello]

13 minutes ago, West End Well said:

First time posting, but I have a friend who is a top tier ref. He has been training on the VAR setup at hampden for months, both as a ref working with a VAR and as a VAR reviewing the video feed. Hawkeye are also advertising for technicians to operate the system in Scotland. And the SFA are very keen for it to go ahead as their officials won’t be represented at major tournaments which use VAR if they aren’t working with it domestically  

True 'dat - hilarious if a bunch of league 2 clubs vote against it.

[Archie McSquackle]

Is that before or after we clap the away support when the travelling number is announced...? [emoji849]

Now there's something you won't catch me doing. I find it utterly weird.