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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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One of the biggest things about Alexander's scattergun approach to team selection and tactics, other than constantly getting pumped, I feel, is that there is an increasing disconnect between the players and the fans.

The product is brutal and of the entire squad I'd only be truly gutted to see Kelly depart. Cornelius, Tierney and Slattery are all young guys with a lot of potential who I'd like to see a lot more of but the manager seems loathe to give them much of a chance. Other than that though? The most meh squad that we've assembled (and at a cost too) for quite some time.

There is potential for us to be better than we're showing, but that's not going to happen without a huge change in tactics and sticking with a settled side, but without that it feels like a squad of players who know they are only here for the length of their current contract. Very few seem to 'get' the club in the way that folk like a Higdon, Jennings, Ojamaa or Moult have in the recent past. No long serving stalwarts like Las, Hammell or Craggs that have grown through time and become integral to not only the side but to the whole ethos of the place. No one that will be revered in years to come.

On the current trajectory apathy could quickly become widespread, a d with season ticket renewal time on the horizon that's got to be a concern to the club.

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13 minutes ago, Desp said:

Does he genuinely just pick out 8 names out of a hat to go alongside Kelly, Donnelly and KvV?

He must he absolutely has too.


He's clearly fallen out with players too. Heard rumours of players having a go at him and his style before.

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I imagine that this is why he was punted by Salford.

As well as not knowing our best XI, I don't even know what our style is. We don't limit opposition chances, we're slow on the counter attack, and we play long balls up to nowhere, with no one to pick up second balls. Our full backs can't defend, but they can't cross either, and our center backs rely heavily on our goalkeeper.

We're a couple of attainable results away from a league finish that most of us would have been more than happy with, but could also end in the playoffs. Our style of play deserves one of those things.

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4 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

I imagine that this is why he was punted by Salford.

As well as not knowing our best XI, I don't even know what our style is. We don't limit opposition chances, we're slow on the counter attack, and we play long balls up to nowhere, with no one to pick up second balls. Our full backs can't defend, but they can't cross either, and our center backs rely heavily on our goalkeeper.

We're a couple of attainable results away from a league finish that most of us would have been more than happy with, but could also end in the playoffs. Our style of play deserves one of those things.

I have no issue with long ball football. If you set your side up to have a big centre forward to win the ball/link play, have another forward to play off him and have a midfield to sweep up any second balls then go for it. We don't do any of those things. It's hit & hope football.

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Couldn’t go today but agree overall the football is brutal to watch.  I don’t king if a long pass is made but not punting and hoping for the best. I actually like the forwards - I think their work rate is pretty good IMO but the tactics make hard work of things chasing random long balls.

Playing 433 is fine but you need full backs that know what their doing. going forward and defending and those types cost a fortune which we don’t have.  

I’m not the type to call for the manager to go.  I never do as I can never think of anyone suitable with our budget, and he did get two Motm awards this season, but I’m frustrated with style of play and this bloody winless run. 

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The media team are shit feart to push Alexander with any serious questions and most that they do ask are angled to lead him into an easy answer, or bit of the usual outlandish positive spin. I get it, it's the clubs official channels and they're hardly going to slaughter him but the same old spiel week after week when we're this far into such an alarming tailspin is embarrassing. 

Hopefully with only the league to concentrate on now, Mr Burrows et al will be leading with some much more direct and searching questioning tomorrow on which direction we're heading.

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I’ll admit I’m a bit “knee jerky” and would be terrible at running a football club but for me the writing has been on the wall for ages and I would’ve binned him 3 games ago. 
 

It’s as big an on field shambles as I’ve ever seen at Motherwell and Barraclough and Gannon were binned for far far less. 

I genuinely don’t see us winning again before the split and possibly again this season on our current trajectory. We are laughably bad and actually getting worse by the week.

Has a team ever went an entire second half of the season without winning a league game? Could any manager really expect to survive the bullet on the back of that? 

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If we miss out on Top Six then he'll have to produce some fucking turnaround in the post-split games- i.e at least 9 points and genuinely good performances- for me to not lose faith completely. I don't think he's an idiot or a bad manager but to be on a run of 1 win in 13(I think) and no idea of your best team in March with a squad you've largely assembled just isn't acceptable really. I'd give him until the end of the season but if there's not a big improvement by that point then we're probably starting next season as relegation favourites. 

Edited by YassinMoutaouakil
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3 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

The most meh squad that we've assembled (and at a cost too) for quite some time.

[...]

feels like a squad of players who know they are only here for the length of their current contract. Very few seem to 'get' the club in the way that folk like a Higdon, Jennings, Ojamaa or Moult have in the recent past. No long serving stalwarts like Las, Hammell or Craggs that have grown through time and become integral to not only the side but to the whole ethos of the place. No one that will be revered in years to come.

I'd definitely criticise Alexander's tactics and mental team selection, especially since the winter break, but I'd disagree that the squad is particularly bad by our standards, or that GA's recruitment has been poor given what would realistically be available to a club in our position. Most meh squad? Have we forgotten Robinson's conveyer belt parade of English non-league journeymen already? KVV is frustrating as f*** at times but I 'd hardly describe him as boring. Big Sondre, Slattery and Tierney have all shown they have potential to be very good players for us and are contracted until 24/25, so they have time to develop into stalwarts.

Worth remembering we started the season with about 14 first team players under contract, 3 of which were out injured for at least a few months and that number also included players like Crawford and Lawless who GA clearly didn't rate, with good reason. That's a massive rebuild (with a few duds to be expected just because of the volume of players needed to make up the numbers) and a long term recruitment issue. The longer contracts we've signed players on this season should help to offset the recruitment mistakes made under the Robinson regime. Of course, these players on longer contarcts need to actually get some time in the team to make that worthwhile, which is something you definitely can criticise Alexander for.

On Cornelius - while his constant rotation in and out of the team is frustrating, especially after games where he has played very well, it's also fair to say that he has only really pushed on and developed into a genuine first team player since Alexander his come to the club. GA and the coaching team have unquestionably improved him as a player (see also Bevis, today's idiocy aside).

Few people upthread have mentioned that they feel the squad isn't playing to it's potential and I think that's a good summary of where we are at, rather than the players being bang average. Probably also why it feels more frustrating to see us struggle to beat teams like Dundee at home.

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26 minutes ago, For Your Pies Only said:

I'd definitely criticise Alexander's tactics and mental team selection, especially since the winter break, but I'd disagree that the squad is particularly bad by our standards, or that GA's recruitment has been poor given what would realistically be available to a club in our position. Most meh squad? Have we forgotten Robinson's conveyer belt parade of English non-league journeymen already? KVV is frustrating as f*** at times but I 'd hardly describe him as boring. Big Sondre, Slattery and Tierney have all shown they have potential to be very good players for us and are contracted until 24/25, so they have time to develop into stalwarts.

Worth remembering we started the season with about 14 first team players under contract, 3 of which were out injured for at least a few months and that number also included players like Crawford and Lawless who GA clearly didn't rate, with good reason. That's a massive rebuild (with a few duds to be expected just because of the volume of players needed to make up the numbers) and a long term recruitment issue. The longer contracts we've signed players on this season should help to offset the recruitment mistakes made under the Robinson regime. Of course, these players on longer contarcts need to actually get some time in the team to make that worthwhile, which is something you definitely can criticise Alexander for.

On Cornelius - while his constant rotation in and out of the team is frustrating, especially after games where he has played very well, it's also fair to say that he has only really pushed on and developed into a genuine first team player since Alexander his come to the club. GA and the coaching team have unquestionably improved him as a player (see also Bevis, today's idiocy aside).

Few people upthread have mentioned that they feel the squad isn't playing to it's potential and I think that's a good summary of where we are at, rather than the players being bang average. Probably also why it feels more frustrating to see us struggle to beat teams like Dundee at home.

I think you've maybe misunderstood what I was trying to say, or more likely I just haven't expressed it too well.

I did state that I think there is potential for us to be better than what we are showing, undoubtedly. 

The 'meh' part of my argument is in the connection between players and fans. Most of the squad should undoubtedly be serviceable at our level, but are there many that you would be overly sad to see leave, or many that you think playing for Motherwell means much to them? Or is it a group that is almost entirely formed of guys who are only here because we were the best/only option open to them?

My examples of folk like Moult and Higdon built an affinity and rapport with the fans. You knew every time they played they would give 100% for the fans as much as the club. These guys were massive losses when they departed. Will anyone lose much sleep when 90% of the current squad move on? I'll give you that big Sol is one who could possibly develop into a favourite over time, but his original levels have dropped lately and he has a fair way to go. He has the potential though, no doubt.

This is a big part of supporting a team like Motherwell. If you have a squad of players who are underperforming but have that affinity and obvious desire to turn it around then the fans will offer more leeway and stay behind them. When you have a weekly changing mish-mash of guys for whom a lot of supporters don't have a huge affection, then that is a problem.

If Alexander had the contrition to admit his tombola approach is farcical and change tack to run with a settled side then performances could become more consistent and affinities could be built, but as it is there are just very few members of the squad that I can bring myself to be overly enthused or excited by having here long term, or who I think we will be talking about and lauding a couple of years down the line. 

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9 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

If we miss out on Top Six then he'll have to produce some fucking turnaround in the post-split games- i.e at least 9 points and genuinely good performances- for me to not lose faith completely. I don't think he's an idiot or a bad manager but to be on a run of 1 win in 13(I think) and no idea of your best team in March with a squad you've largely assembled just isn't acceptable really. I'd give him until the end of the season but if there's not a big improvement by that point then we're probably starting next season as relegation favourites. 

Aye, I'm pretty much on board with this view too to be honest. 

If we don't make the Top 6 then it's very likely we've not won in the last 3 games left. If that's the case he gets binned straight away.

 

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7 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

My examples of folk like Moult and Higdon built an affinity and rapport with the fans. You knew every time they played they would give 100% for the fans as much as the club. These guys were massive losses when they departed. Will anyone lose much sleep when 90% of the current squad move on?

This is a big part of supporting a team like Motherwell. If you have a squad of players who are underperforming but have that affinity and obvious desire to turn it around then the fans will offer more leeway and stay behind them. When you have a weekly changing mish-mash of guys for whom a lot of supporters don't have a huge affection, then that is a problem.

I think it's difficult to truly judge the affection the newer players have for the club - folk express themselves in many different ways and I have no reason to doubt that even the lads clearly here to do a job or earn a move elsewhere still want the club to do well - but fully take your point that we are missing a talismanic figure who shows that engagement and leadership on the pitch. Also agree that the constant rotation has had an effect on fan engagement too. It's hard to build a rapport with supporters when players aren't getting a consistent run in the team and good form isn't rewarded.

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10 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

If we miss out on Top Six then he'll have to produce some fucking turnaround in the post-split games- i.e at least 9 points and genuinely good performances- for me to not lose faith completely. I don't think he's an idiot or a bad manager but to be on a run of 1 win in 13(I think) and no idea of your best team in March with a squad you've largely assembled just isn't acceptable really. I'd give him until the end of the season but if there's not a big improvement by that point then we're probably starting next season as relegation favourites. 

I think he showed that he's more than capable in the time he had last season turning us from a team in free fall to being able to churn out results. Unfortunately he appears to have now performed a perfect U-turn on that. 

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20 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I think he showed that he's more than capable in the time he had last season turning us from a team in free fall to being able to churn out results. Unfortunately he appears to have now performed a perfect U-turn on that. 

Yeah... In looking for an appropriate "circle of life" GIF I came across this.... 

mr. d cbc GIF
 

WTF ?!?   :D

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We'll never know how yesterday might have gone had Bevis not had a moment of madness, but the team selection had all the hallmarks of GA hearing the complaints about us bypassing the midfield the last few games and deciding to double down by taking another body out the middle of the park.

Such as it was, I actually thought Donnelly and Cornelius did a tough job really well, and Roberts was good throughout (although really should have scored early on). We looked much more solid once SOD came on. Sol seemed to spend the entire first half unsure whether he should be covering RB or the centre and did neither. SOD's introduction allowed him to concentrate on the centre and gave us more drive down the right.

It's maddening that we have some good players but GA just refuses to play to their strengths. There's a genuine case to try and play through the midfield with the likes of Slattery/Goss and occasionally Tierney, linking up with KVV and getting the ball into space for our wide players. The hoofball is fine if you can do it well (see Robinson's Thunderdome team) but we aren't, and it's really tough to watch.

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11 minutes ago, fat_tony said:

It's maddening that we have some good players but GA just refuses to play to their strengths. There's a genuine case to try and play through the midfield with the likes of Slattery/Goss and occasionally Tierney, linking up with KVV and getting the ball into space for our wide players. The hoofball is fine if you can do it well (see Robinson's Thunderdome team) but we aren't, and it's really tough to watch.
 

I know. Mugabi was one of our best players recently and after signing a new contract he gets dropped for bothe Ross County and Dundee? Then is dropped right back in against hibs out of position and make 1 terrible mistake. Now that's going to be 3 game suspension (I think that's the default for a reckless and dangerous tackle?).

Woolery is the same, his work effort over the past few games was massive and if we just play through the midfield then maybe he gets more chances. Lumping the ball up to him with 2-3 defenders surrounding him is annoying once, insanity in the 7th+ time.

I was actually dreading O'Donnell when he came on but it just showed how terrible we were when he was an improvement. McGinnely was just ball watching throughout the game, isolated and neither covering an oppoment or forcing the ball into a more defended area. I remember one moment where he just passed the ball to a hibs player who was about to run right pass him. Then someone else pulled the hibs player for a foul and git carded, then immediately starred shouting at McGinnely. The team certainly doesn't appear to be working right now (or throughout this year).

 

So who will be conducting the tombola draw for the St Johnstone match line up?

 

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I said up there that I was raging at Mugabi for making the tackle and raging at Alexander for putting a centre half on the wing, but in truth raging was just a figure of speech. I'd probably rather be raging with us just now but I'm so alarmingly apathetic. It's concerning when you're weighing up whether you're more annoyed at going out of the cup, or wasting a few hours of your Sunday.

I've missed four home league games this season within my control (missed the Livi one too, but given I lost the ballot and ended up isolating anyway I probably wouldn't count that) plus the Morton and Aberdeen cup games. Just at that point where those around me are all growing up and there's weddings / stags / christenings etc on Saturdays.  I'm actually questioning the value of getting a season ticket next season, other than supporting the club financially. 

Obviously, the club have been great the past couple of seasons in terms of what they've done for fans with them - but if I get a season ticket next season, it will be an emotional decision and certainly not a financial decision. 

What this season is now really reminding me of is the second half of the season with Malpas in charge. After 28 league games, we were in 8th place and 16 points ahead of Dunfermline, yet we still got dragged in to a relegation fight. After 28 games this season, we were in 7th place, but only 12 points clear of St. Johnstone in the play-off. Fortunately, we've now played 30 games and St. Johnstone haven't made up any ground on us. I think it's probably very dramatic to suggest that we will end up down there, but with each game we play tombola and don't win...

I think from the second half of last season, where Robbie Crawford and Tyler Magloire were regularly starting games, despite a significant investment in the team, we've gone considerably backwards. Maybe Alexander is the type of manager that's good with players he inherits, but not great at signing people. A bit like Alex McLeish, how he was successful with Tommy McLean's team at Motherwell, successful with Advocaat's at Rangers and Smith's at Scotland, but when he has to bring his own players in, it goes to shit.

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