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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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17 minutes ago, ropy said:

The caveat on the hypothetical scenario was that GA didn’t trust him to put the effort in

So bullshit then with no basis in anything other that a random club ideally in Scotland in need of something to kickstart their season, with money and not in our division .... 

As for why the news came out, I have it on good authority by someone close to the club Dundee United leaked it in the hope it would secure an early release due to the furore .... the second part of that is correct so far. I mean it even gets sub convos on the main thread talking about something that isn't on anyone's radar.

Lucetti merely answered a jorno question "has the horse bolted?" when the horse had just bolted, hardly an official endorsement.

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20 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

So bullshit then with no basis in anything other that a random club ideally in Scotland in need of something to kickstart their season, with money and not in our division .... 

 

Yes I posited a scenario or talked bullshit as you suggest.

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I suppose there’s always the angle it could harm our image if the club don’t cooperate on a deal in January.

Can’t see Watt being a regular in the team, does it look good to possible signings who we are describing ourselves as a “selling club” to if we then sit him on the bench for 6 months and stop him playing football during his prime?

Personally I think it’d be a great laugh but could understood why the club might have their hand forced on a deal.

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Yes I posited a scenario or talked bullshit as you suggest.
It was just putting a name to a Club X in a hypothetical scenario. I don't think anyone expected the resulting discussion to become so involved - it wouldn't surprise me now if it comes up as a suggestion on Kilmarnock's thread!

You could have suggested Falkirk (ignoring the two division drop) - their fans seem more likely to get worked up about a possibility. [emoji16]
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15 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

It was just putting a name to a Club X in a hypothetical scenario. I don't think anyone expected the resulting discussion to become so involved - it wouldn't surprise me now if it comes up as a suggestion on Kilmarnock's thread!

You could have suggested Falkirk (ignoring the two division drop) - their fans seem more likely to get worked up about a possibility. emoji16.png

Each division has its own message board, I could drop the suggestion into each.

Looking back I put Kilmarnock in quotes, maybe there is a better way of indicating a straw man.

Edited by ropy
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The only other aspect that I haven't seen mentioned is that Watt might have a release clause of some sort in his current contract and if Utd meet it or come close to it, we might not have much say in it. I found the talk of "six figure discussions" in the original Scott Burns stuff a little bit specific but as I'm not even vaguely ITK, I am probably reading too much into it. 

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Here's a hypothetical worth discussing, with us no longer in the EU, surely we could reverse the Bosman ruling? After the European court ruled in his favour then it would have been adopted into each member states legislation, so would need a change to the Westminster Act but now we're not bound by it. Suits clubs and not players. Doubt it will ever be reversed but while we're on the pie in the sky subjects ....

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4 hours ago, ZX1886 said:

I suppose there’s always the angle it could harm our image if the club don’t cooperate on a deal in January.

Can’t see Watt being a regular in the team, does it look good to possible signings who we are describing ourselves as a “selling club” to if we then sit him on the bench for 6 months and stop him playing football during his prime?

Personally I think it’d be a great laugh but could understood why the club might have their hand forced on a deal.

It’s a difficult one, an in form watt is a plus if he’s played until the end of the season. There is no doubt Dundee United and his agent are looking to move him come January and will look to pay as little as possible. Having said that the way they are throwing what looks like crazy wages around maybe they have now totally lost the plot and don’t care what it costs. I don’t see any of supporters questioning where this could lead down the line.

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4 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

Here's a hypothetical worth discussing, with us no longer in the EU, surely we could reverse the Bosman ruling? After the European court ruled in his favour then it would have been adopted into each member states legislation, so would need a change to the Westminster Act but now we're not bound by it. Suits clubs and not players. Doubt it will ever be reversed but while we're on the pie in the sky subjects ....

Don’t think we could,

It’s an EU law but I’m sure all UEFA members need to sign upto it

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4 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

Here's a hypothetical worth discussing, with us no longer in the EU, surely we could reverse the Bosman ruling? After the European court ruled in his favour then it would have been adopted into each member states legislation, so would need a change to the Westminster Act but now we're not bound by it. Suits clubs and not players. Doubt it will ever be reversed but while we're on the pie in the sky subjects ....

The UK has left the EU - but we are still part of the european football market, which is governed by Football, not national governments - Switzerland, Norway, Turkey, Israel and Iceland are non-EU members but their football clubs/associations are still beholden to UEFA rules. With Brexit - Bosman is the least of our worries - UK Govt rules around immigration and work permits will f**k us long before Bosman will.

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I have no issue with any footballer going to any club for more money - it is a short career, especially in Watt’s case at 28.

The bit I don’t like is that we haven’t announced it, Watt hasn’t announced it and Dundee Utd haven’t announced it, so that makes me think there’s an agent involved trying to use the press to make it happen in January as cheaply as possible.

Like the Chris Cadden situation, if that’s what he feels needs done for the best interests of his career, then fair enough, but you can’t expect people to like you for it. 

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51 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I have no issue with any footballer going to any club for more money - it is a short career, especially in Watt’s case at 28.

The bit I don’t like is that we haven’t announced it, Watt hasn’t announced it and Dundee Utd haven’t announced it, so that makes me think there’s an agent involved trying to use the press to make it happen in January as cheaply as possible.

Like the Chris Cadden situation, if that’s what he feels needs done for the best interests of his career, then fair enough, but you can’t expect people to like you for it. 

I doubt he does, not sure thought that people need to hate him for it, we would pretty much all do the same thing, including those giving him dogs abuse on social media.

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18 minutes ago, Yorky said:

I doubt he does, not sure thought that people need to hate him for it, we would pretty much all do the same thing, including those giving him dogs abuse on social media.

He doesn't deserve dogs abuse, completely agree as it's just his job - but I'm sure he's not losing any sleep over it. He's been in the game long enough to expect a backlash when he's been badge kissing for months and is now seemingly making a sharp exit in January  with the help of his agent and/or Utd.

I'm at the point where I just want it announced formally so we can get on with it. 

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1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I have no issue with any footballer going to any club for more money - it is a short career, especially in Watt’s case at 28.

The bit I don’t like is that we haven’t announced it, Watt hasn’t announced it and Dundee Utd haven’t announced it, so that makes me think there’s an agent involved trying to use the press to make it happen in January as cheaply as possible.

Like the Chris Cadden situation, if that’s what he feels needs done for the best interests of his career, then fair enough, but you can’t expect people to like you for it. 

Aye, without knowing the ins and outs the timing of the 'leak' feels like it was designed to be disruptive. Coming shortly before we play our final game before the winter break, not that I expect Scott Burns to sit on a story but if it was just about leverage to expedite his exit in January it could have leaked this week and still had the same result.

As it turned out the story blew up and Watt's benched for the Livi game. Not that it mattered in the end with Van Veen turning up to ping them in top bins but still, it's probably fair to say that had that story not ran on Christmas Eve Watt would have likely started on Sunday.

I know Burns will have an in with pretty much every club in the country but I seem to recall reading that he's tight with Asghar (United fans will probably know better if that's the case or not).

It's been mentioned elsewhere but the club have done a pretty good job of navigating players/agents acting the c**t in recent years so ultimately I'm inclined to trust them to handle things appropriately.

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On 28/12/2021 at 15:44, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I'm trying not to indulge in revisionism - as I was undoubtedly a massive fan of Watt's work with us this season, but Van Veen has a better minutes-per-goal rate, even when you consider two of Watt's goals were penalties. Maybe he will step up when he is the main man and Watt is away. There will hopefully no chance of him being posted wide-left now. Although I doubt it's where he wants to play long-term, Shields was good there against Livi, I thought.

The main difference between Watt and KVV for me is that you tend to get a similar game out of Tony Watt each time, whereas KVV either tends to be majestic or anonymous. 

Incidentally, to speak to this point, I noticed this write up on the Sky Sports website. It's an interesting comparison between the two.

The context they don't give is minutes played:

Watt is 1,598 mins in the league, KVV is 1,194 mins.

skysports-motherwell-van-veen-watt_56274

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Edited by capt_oats
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1 hour ago, Yorky said:

I doubt he does, not sure thought that people need to hate him for it, we would pretty much all do the same thing, including those giving him dogs abuse on social media.

I don’t think people should hate him, but football fans have a right to show a bit of annoyance in those circumstances. You’d think he’d keep a low profile on social media under the circumstances, rather than asking for kindle recommendations or telling people to be kind to him on his birthday.

When the Chris Cadden thing happened, the only bit that annoyed me was the newspaper articles he did claiming he was the innocent party. 

I don’t blame people for doing what they need to do and further their career and up their earnings, just don’t be insincere about it.

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The other aspect to all of this is that Motherwell FC gave him the environment to flourish to become top goalscorer and to enable him to sign a lucrative contract at one of our nearest rivals in the league. 

I get that Tony Watt is a more than decent player but it did not work out at St J or Hearts hence why he ended up with us. 

So to the point above the badge kissing, the social media presence comes across as a bit of an arse. In my humble opinion I am not sure he is clever enough to even realise or care. Why should he you may argue 🤷‍♂️.

I want him gone in January and hope the clubs can do a deal. But if United are going to p1ss about I would have him train with boys and have him nowhere near the 1st team. We cannot risk him becoming a disruptive influence in a successful season. He is the past and we need to move on.

Also strong argument that United’s need is a whole lot greater than ours. 2nd lowest scorers and falling down the league rapidly. Of course I hope his form falls off a cliff should he move. Had he gone down south as expected then that would be a different matter. 

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37 minutes ago, welldaft said:

But if United are going to p1ss about I would have him train with boys and have him nowhere near the 1st team.

Given GA's past record with others, and the fact that Watt's already been dropped like a hot tattie at the weekend there, I can't see this not being the case.

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I've loved Watt for us and think that, in the form he's been in this half season, he's pretty much the perfect striker for a team at our level. I did find it funny when somebody mentioned the other day that he's scored 2 in his last 8, doesn't take too many more goalless games before you can start questioning how much August-Nov 2021 really was a purple patch, relative to his career.

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