Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

['WellDel]

What do you say after a performance like today? As Jekyll and Hyde a side as you are ever likely to watch.

For all the things we did right last week in comfortably dispatching Hearts, we went out today and did the exact opposite. Last week we worked a high press and harried Hearts from the first whistle. Never gave them a second on the ball and dictated the tempo of the game, both through our play and game management (or shithousing if you prefer).

Today we were on the back foot right from the off.  Slack, weak, passive, all manner of failings, and if it weren't for Kelly it could have been even more embarrassing. It's not the first time in Alexander's tenure that we've picked up a result or two then fallen off a cliff in the next game, but how do you explain it? Is it complacency going into a game against a perceived weaker team after beating a couple of sides above them in the table, or is it simply that despite our current league position, we're just not very good? Only a couple of days to fund some answers before Utd come calling.

Edited November 27, 2021 by 'WellDel

[Allroy for Prez]

As much as it’s the most Motherwell thing ever to lose a game we had more potential to win than the previous 2 that we actually did, That was a genuinely embarrassing showing today in every way imaginable. If I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes I wouldn’t believed it was possible for us to be so much the polar opposite of last Saturday. 
 

Was Goss missing really that much of a factor?
 

Are we back to “where is the next win coming from?”  

[Gianfranco]

I wonder if Alexander will be tempted to go with the 442 from the second half on Tuesday?

[Gianfranco]

Alexander was quite emotional in his post match interview today. Hopefully we see a reactions vs the dabs.

[well fan for life]

I love Bevis.

However I think he looked very much like a man playing out of position today. Which has probably been in the post for a while.

Grimshaw is atrocious in possession, nothing stuck up front at all and we just ceded the whole of Dundee to their midfield.

['WellDel]

2 hours ago, well fan for life said:

I love Bevis.

However I think he looked very much like a man playing out of position today. Which has probably been in the post for a while.

Grimshaw is atrocious in possession, nothing stuck up front at all and we just ceded the whole of Dundee to their midfield.

Grimshaw is atrocious, full stop. Midfield badly needs addressing in January  and hopefully the arrival of Tierney isn't the only business we do in that department. I'm sure we'll still be more than fine over the piece though, despite our Jekyll and Hyde nature.

Is Slattery far off a ban? Think his card count is mounting up. Losing him for a game or two would really hurt us before we get reinforcements in.

 

[Guest superward]

12 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

Grimshaw is atrocious, full stop. Midfield badly needs addressing in January  and hopefully the arrival of Tierney isn't the only business we do in that department. I'm sure we'll still be more than fine over the piece though, despite our Jekyll and Hyde nature.

Is Slattery far off a ban? Think his card count is mounting up. Losing him for a game or two would really hurt us before we get reinforcements in.

 

He's on 4. So a couple to go yet 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I have identified the problem

[capt_oats]

17 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

What do you say after a performance like today? As Jekyll and Hyde a side as you are ever likely to watch.

For all the things we did right last week in comfortably dispatching Hearts, we went out today and did the exact opposite. Last week we worked a high press and harried Hearts from the first whistle. Never gave them a second on the ball and dictated the tempo of the game, both through our play and game management (or shithousing if you prefer).

Today we were on the back foot right from the off.  Slack, weak, passive, all manner of failings, and if it weren't for Kelly it could have been even more embarrassing. It's not the first time in Alexander's tenure that we've picked up a result or two then fallen off a cliff in the next game, but how do you explain it? Is it complacency going into a game against a perceived weaker team after beating a couple of sides above them in the table, or is it simply that despite our current league position, we're just not very good? Only a couple of days to fund some answers before Utd come calling.

Cards on the table, I was working yesterday so didn't see any of the game and on reflection other than having a swatch at the goals I doubt I ever will.

Anyway, given that it feels like it's a point that was more than just about yesterday it was interesting that Alexander's post match hits every point you've made here. Even down to the pull quote in the club's Tweet: "Everything we did last week, we didn't do today."

Spoiler

It's interesting that he pretty much says that "it's not the first time" that we've fucked it against a team who have been struggling.

The big thing he makes about "mentality" is something that's been a broad issue for us even going back to previous managers. I think more than a few of us saw yesterday as exactly the sort of game we'd f**k up.

In broad strokes, and not to single out individual players (you can guess who I have in mind), it feels like we have a collection of players who can surprise and get a few good (even very good) performances from but for various reasons when it comes down to it you can't trust them enough to get consistently good performances at a certain level.

Either way, he's explicit in saying he plans to "fix" it (and the Aberdeen and Hearts results have given him a bit of credit in the bank) so I'm interested to see how he sets about doing that.

Edited November 28, 2021 by capt_oats

[ropy]

I thought Woolery was vey effective last week, but his decision making was very poor yesterday.  Is this how they define inconsistency?

Did we go 4-2-4 or 4-4-2 in the second half?

[well fan for life]

I'm hopeful Tierney can offer us something to join up midfield & attack but I expect he'll need to bed in. Either way it's wild to realise that Sean Goss is the lynchpin of the whole operation at this point.

As far as the current squad goes the midfield is paper thin. Slattery is the best option, as it stands you'd probably pick Maguire & Goss in there with him. Grimshaw's shite, Cornelius has vanished after the cup debacle, O'Hara hasn't offered anything other than turn up in my local Starbucks and don't even start me on Crawford.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

23 hours ago, well fan for life said:

I love Bevis.

However I think he looked very much like a man playing out of position today. Which has probably been in the post for a while.

To be fair, to go along with the good results we’ve had with Bevis at RB, there has probably been an element of the way the games have gone suiting him. The only other game where we’ve even gone a goal down is the Livi game. I think in a game that we’re chasing where we’ll inevitably have more of the ball, you’ll start to see his deficiencies. I wouldn’t be surprised to see SOD recalled on Tuesday.

As for Goss, his contribution to the game as a whole can be questioned, but he’s been involved in every goal in our last two wins. Not a massive surprise when that’s taken out there is no goal.

I thought Maguire done well against Hearts last weekend, but he was back to being quite anonymous yesterday. Think we can maybe carry one of Maguire’s lack of influence and Grimmy’s lack of technique, but both at once and we’ll suffer.

[Allroy for Prez]

We all know that Motherwell are more often than not, at best, going to be up and down throughout seasons, but that was a genuine “off a cliff” level of performance from the previous Saturday and comfortably the worst result and performance of the season. 
 

Getting horsed of the Old Firm is one thing but of a team of, no offence to Dundee, but they could take offence, of “consistent strugglers”, is quite another. 
 

Due to phenomenal luck, the last game I made prior to yesterday was Tannadice so for me yesterday’s performance is just a natural follow on to what I seen that day. Many of the same players looking inept, incapable, unmotivated, unorganised and simply not good enough. 
 

From all the harsh words, apparent zero taking of bullshit and demanding of standards being met  by Alexander it just doesn’t compute that so many of these players are continually involved.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

I'm hopeful Tierney can offer us something to join up midfield & attack but I expect he'll need to bed in. Either way it's wild to realise that Sean Goss is the lynchpin of the whole operation at this point.

As far as the current squad goes the midfield is paper thin. Slattery is the best option, as it stands you'd probably pick Maguire & Goss in there with him. Grimshaw's shite, Cornelius has vanished after the cup debacle, O'Hara hasn't offered anything other than turn up in my local Starbucks and don't even start me on Crawford.

Sadsack that I am I just watched the FAI Cup Final (St Pats won on pens). Tierney played the full game but didn't take a pen.

He had a couple of good chances, one he took an extra touch when he didn't need to and the other the keeper made a smashing save from a header.

It's worth pointing out that as a gauge of "standard" Billy King and Liam Burt were both on the park as was Chris Forrester (formerly of Aberdeen) so that's probably worth taking into account but there's definitely potential there. As you say though it'll take a bit of time for him to bed in and hyping him into anything just feels daft.

From what I could see he was pretty much playing as a 10 off the target man but he'd track back a fair bit defensively so his role is slightly weird in that respect as he'd go beyond the striker as well - he covered a lot of ground. His game seemed to be about drifting into space and making late runs rather than getting "on the ball".

Edit: Having thought about it a wee bit, there were actually shades of Campbell in what Tierney was doing. Not in a "will tackle his Gran" way but that more advanced role that Campbell kind of developed into his game (and started chipping in with goals).

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

To be fair, to go along with the good results we’ve had with Bevis at RB, there has probably been an element of the way the games have gone suiting him. The only other game where we’ve even gone a goal down is the Livi game. I think in a game that we’re chasing where we’ll inevitably have more of the ball, you’ll start to see his deficiencies. I wouldn’t be surprised to see SOD recalled on Tuesday.

As for Goss, his contribution to the game as a whole can be questioned, but he’s been involved in every goal in our last two wins. Not a massive surprise when that’s taken out there is no goal.

I thought Maguire done well against Hearts last weekend, but he was back to being quite anonymous yesterday. Think we can maybe carry one of Maguire’s lack of influence and Grimmy’s lack of technique, but both at once and we’ll suffer.

The point about Goss' goal involvement is why I've been curious about Carroll not getting a game. Like, I understand why if it's the case that Alexander feels he can't trust him given his tendency to be...rash but given he offers a certain quality of delivery then it feels weird that we're happily patching that especially in games where Goss isn't available.

Either way going by Alexander's chat in his pre-match press conference it sounds like we've been speaking to quite a few players so it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out in January (specifically how many of them are midfielders) and what sort of knock on that has for folk already in the building.

Edited November 28, 2021 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

Conversely I did not watch the FAI cup final, but I can confirm Little Simz at the O2 Academy was the absolute bollocks.

See if Tierney fills the cavernous gap between midfield & attack, I'm all in favour. We've had Slattery winning loads of free kicks, Goss putting in decent crosses from them and not much else this season from whatever combination we have attempted.

[ropy]

16 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Conversely I did not watch the FAI cup final, but I can confirm Little Simz at the O2 Academy was the absolute bollocks.

See if Tierney fills the cavernous gap between midfield & attack, I'm all in favour. We've had Slattery winning loads of free kicks, Goss putting in decent crosses from them and not much else this season from whatever combination we have attempted.

 

We have had Maguire shelling throw ins to Bevis who is standing just beyond his range.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

12 hours ago, capt_oats said:

The point about Goss' goal involvement is why I've been curious about Carroll not getting a game. Like, I understand why if it's the case that Alexander feels he can't trust him given his tendency to be...rash but given he offers a certain quality of delivery then it feels weird that we're happily patching that especially in games where Goss isn't available.

Aye, I agree with that entirely. McGinley just seems a bit like a jack of all trades, who will only ever get passmarks. I don't think people will ever rave about how he made the difference. Carroll's delivery alone is enough to nudge him ahead of McGinley for me. It seems like one dragged out punishment for Carroll, especially when Alexander said he didn't think it was a red. Mind you, with the chat that Carroll just went straight down the tunnel at Pittodrie, it would suggest all is not rosy.

[Casagolda]

I actually think McGinley’s looked a bit better recently with Goss in front of him. 

With Goss not being the most defensive minded, I think having the solidity of McGinley behind him works quite well. There’s less emphasis on Goss defensively and not as much need for McGinley to deliver quality into the box. They compliment each other quite well. 

With Goss out and Grimmy in front of him, it was an absolute shitshow on Saturday. Grimmy offers little on the ball so the emphasis was on McGinley to provide the quality and he was sadly lacking. At least half a dozen times he attempted a cross or a pass that didn’t land within a 10 yards radius of a Motherwell player. 

If Goss isn’t back for tomorrow, I’d definitely be having Carroll in as a must. We could also get Barry Maguire off set pieces which would be an added bonus. 

[Ludo*1]

I thought your full backs were particularly poor on Saturday. Right back was a clumsy mess and the left back just didn't look like he knew the basics of football. I always like Grimshaw when he plays against us, but he was another that was completely anonymous. He'd have been better off in your RB position though IMO. 

If we didn't notch our 3rd, KVV looked like a man that could have easily dragged you back into the game. Criminal why he never started regardless of the other strikers' form.

[Ron Aldo]

McGinley fits in with Alexander's mantra of us being well organised (sometimes) and disciplined. Unfortunately hes also shite and football and offers very little in an attacking sense.

I'm not saying Carroll is the second coming of Roberto Carlos but with Goss being out on Saturday surely you give Carroll a game and we at least have some attacking threat from set pieces and the like?

I've never known my opinion on a manager to change so wildly on an almost weekly basis. When we win we're good, when we lose we're brutal. There's no in between and Alexander's apparent stubbornness when it comes to how the team is set up can be infuriating at times.