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Is 3-2-4-1 a real formation?

Mugabi Ojala Solholm
Donnelly Grimshaw
SOD O'Hara Slattery Carroll
Watt

I feel that would generate a good amount of fouls and win headers, and keeps mugabi in the team for the fun. Then we can bring on all our wingers later, or lamie if we're holding on to lead from 20 mins onwards.

I might buy football manager and try it.

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1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Aye, I'm very much *quiet voice*-ing here but surprising as it seems given he's never exactly won the majority of the fanbase over this is pretty much the first run of poor form Alexander has had since he got the job. He's clearly had a handful of poor results but most of those you could probably mitigate on account of injuries (St Johnstone) or not having the squad in place (Airdrie).

Looking at it, until the past few games his only B2B defeats were the Accies and St Johnstone games last season:

494478347_ScreenShot2021-11-01at13_29_54.thumb.png.56fb5100bbea843a0aac171ef6aa8cf8.png
8569607_ScreenShot2021-11-01at13_29_12.thumb.png.51c421881752fcf494f2bd8f920fedae.png

To that point it's probably not that much of a surprise that he's stuck to things tactically as he has.

The question I'd have (and it was also true of Robinson when he hit a wall) is whether or not Alexander is equipped to identify and fix the issues. We definitely have a squad that is better than it's been showing and we have goals in it (Tony Watt is literally top scorer in the league at the moment). It's the fact that over the last 5 games we seem to have gone off a cliff defensively that's grinding my gears.

You can clearly see that from October onwards we have Conceded atleast 2 goals every game. If that isn't a sign to change tactics or ATLEAST having a plan B, then I don't know what will.

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I said a few weeks back when things were rosier we were riding our luck and at some point it would run out.  In the games we won if the opposition had scored even half of their chances we would have lost or drawn at best.  Maybe we don't have the players to have a solid defensive unit. As has been mentioned we have hardly played the same back four two games in a row.

Our concern and certainly mine is whether or not GA can adapt or is even willing too.  The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results !  I feel that is exactly where we are at.  I cannot even remember us being set up as open as this when GA came in last season. The reality is we are too open and allowing teams to fire in crosses at will and under no pressure is a recipe for disaster.

I like GA.  I wanted him as Manager.  He did a decent job last season and early part of this season. Also worth pointing out that our losses have been to the 3 teams that will finish top 3 and Dundee United away.  Historically we have probably not got many good results from that set of fixtures.

I hope we can turn things around starting this weekend. But another mauling and equally poor performance and the knives will be out.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Swello said:

I was wondering about this - I know the focus is on the midfiled but have we actually played the same defence twice in a row this season? We've got a lot of defenders but it seems that through injuries. suspension and "changes" that we haven't had a settled line-up at any point.

To take this a little further, while I'm not really one for pile-ons and it's a pretty small sample size it's hard not to notice that the only 2 clean sheets we've kept in the league this season (Dundee, Aberdeen) coincide with Bevis playing right back in place of SOD.

In fact the 3 games we won on the bounce had Bev at right back. 3 games played with him at RB and only 1 goal conceded (Carroll started at LB in 2 of them anaw - albeit he didn't finish the 2nd one).

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10 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

What formation would you play with this squad? 

As others have mentioned, it's very unbalanced.

We have Shields, Van Veen and Watt who all, to me, look like they'd thrive in a front two, although I'm not sure we have the wingers to play a 4-4-2 and playing a 3-5-2 doesn't solve the conundrum of having to play three central midfielders when we don't have three good ones.

I really wish we'd focused more on quality than quantity this summer in our transfer dealings. We seem to be back at the point where we have a massive squad with little quality.

Who would we really miss if they left this squad? Watt, Kelly, Slattery and Ojala for me. I'll could probably extend that to Mugabi in this seasons form, although he's made a few key mistakes of late.

Anyone other than that come into the very cliched "can do a job" category. But very few add a lot of quality to the team.

The squad feels like it's been put together with a 433 in mind but for all the reasons everyone has outlined it's not working. Equally I'm not really sure that changing formation makes much of a difference, what matters is what the players are being instructed to do within that system.

That said, it feels mental that we're in a position where we've got Watt sitting on 7 goals in 12 games but we're also having to marginalise Van Veen's impact by either shoving him out wide or benching him completely.

To that point, while we don't have an obvious #10 in the squad until the wee man from Ireland turns up, does a diamond fix things? It was an occasional alternative for Robinson (the 2-0 game up at Pittodrie being the obvious one).

Spoiler

It doesn't necessitate wingers and it gets Watt and Van Veen on the park playing centrally. Just let O'Hara cut about like an enthusiastic puppy chasing a tennis ball in the advanced MF role with 3 'sitters' behind him. Slattery +2 basically.

Edited by capt_oats
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To take this a little further, while I'm not really one for pile-ons and it's a pretty small sample size it's hard not to notice that the only 2 clean sheets we've kept in the league this season (Dundee, Aberdeen) coincide with Bevis playing right back in place of SOD.

Take away the LC games and we have 1 win in 9 when S.O.D has been in the team, conceding 19 goals.

He was pretty average for us last season but this season, barring a pretty decent performance for Scotland, he’s not been up to it.
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11 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

3E53DFD9-958E-4236-B807-35A33282A8A8.thumb.jpeg.ef4414b042a9972e4fb77441afe6b1aa.jpeg

y u do dis brooks laich GIF

giphy.gif

3 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

Take away the LC games and we have 1 win in 9 when S.O.D has been in the team, conceding 19 goals.

He was pretty average for us last season but this season, barring a pretty decent performance for Scotland, he’s not been up to it.

giphy.gif

Fucking hell.

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10 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

3E53DFD9-958E-4236-B807-35A33282A8A8.thumb.jpeg.ef4414b042a9972e4fb77441afe6b1aa.jpeg

y u do dis brooks laich GIF

For a routine defeat, I'm over it by the time I step out the car at home - yesterday wasn't a routine defeat (it was a massive fucking minter that everyone involved should be ashamed about) and I'll stew on it for a few days before We Go Again - these wee slogans drive me mental at times (and I know it isn't the media team's fault).

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The 4-3-3 is reliant on at least one of your wingers being good. Unfortunately all of ours are rubbish right now. And I absolutely would not trust any of them to play at wing back because they haven't tracked back all season. I'd wouldn't be against a 5-3-2 now. Ditch the wingers, attempt to get Watt & Van Veen introduced to each other and maybe get the midfield to be somewhat involved.

2077104834_Screenshot2021-11-01at19_54_17.thumb.png.f4fe43d4552697ce83c2b75528706d48.png

However this will not happen because Donnelly's vanished off the face of the earth and Alexander loves shit wingers.

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It’s clear that something needs to change. If it’s formation then changing to 3 or 5 at the back would make most sense. Our strength right now is our CB positions. I know SOD is suspended but if he can get some confidence back, RWB is where we’ve seen him perform at his best (albeit for a Scotland team with more quality than this shambles).

On most occasions I would expect GA to be too stubborn and stick to his 433 but since Aberdeen have recently changed to 3 at the back and found success I wonder if he’s tempted to match them up on Saturday. 

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The 4-3-3 is reliant on at least one of your wingers being good. Unfortunately all of ours are rubbish right now. And I absolutely would not trust any of them to play at wing back because they haven't tracked back all season. I'd wouldn't be against a 5-3-2 now. Ditch the wingers, attempt to get Watt & Van Veen introduced to each other and maybe get the midfield to be somewhat involved.
2077104834_Screenshot2021-11-01at19_54_17.thumb.png.f4fe43d4552697ce83c2b75528706d48.png
However this will not happen because Donnelly's vanished off the face of the earth and Alexander loves shit wingers.
This would suit our squad perfectly as it still leaves options in every position.

Fully expect 4-3-3 on Saturday though.
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Would love to know what the real script is with Donnelly. 

Completely out in the wilderness, with no word or sign of any imminent return. Obviously he's had a couple of bad spells with injury, but to go from being a former goalscoring, midfield linchpin and in international squads, to not getting near a start in that utter clusterfuck of a middle 3 when he's apparently fit is quite something. 

Surely he's not permanently broken? How we could do with him in his prime right now.

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Aye, when he came on against Ross County, I thought he added a decent balance to the midfield and I was hoping that was us gradually reintroducing him to build him up to a full game. Since then he's only been an unused sub once. I would have to assume it's an injury. It's a shame as I was a big fan of his work in the 19/20 season and that player could really make a difference to our team at the moment.

If he is "fit" so to speak, then it probably speaks volumes about Grezza's opinion of him if he can't even get on the bench when Grimshaw, O'Hara and Goss have been turning in the performances that they have.

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5 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

Would love to know what the real script is with Donnelly. 

Completely out in the wilderness, with no word or sign of any imminent return. Obviously he's had a couple of bad spells with injury, but to go from being a former goalscoring, midfield linchpin and in international squads, to not getting near a start in that utter clusterfuck of a middle 3 when he's apparently fit is quite something. 

Surely he's not permanently broken? How we could do with him in his prime right now.

Alexander has been very clear that the only person out injured is Crawford so f**k knows where Donnelly's gone. 

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A fully fit and functioning Donnely would make a massive difference to that midfield, f**k even at 70% I'd have him in. Mind-boggling if he's available and can't get close to a game.

We need one of Burrows' reply guys to demand answers.

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44 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Aye, when he came on against Ross County, I thought he added a decent balance to the midfield and I was hoping that was us gradually reintroducing him to build him up to a full game. Since then he's only been an unused sub once. I would have to assume it's an injury. It's a shame as I was a big fan of his work in the 19/20 season and that player could really make a difference to our team at the moment.

If he is "fit" so to speak, then it probably speaks volumes about Grezza's opinion of him if he can't even get on the bench when Grimshaw, O'Hara and Goss have been turning in the performances that they have.

 

43 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Alexander has been very clear that the only person out injured is Crawford so f**k knows where Donnelly's gone. 

Aye, I'd been wondering about Donnelly as well. Not necessarily because I think he's the "answer" to anything but generally speaking we're not usually in a position to just spuriously bin off a midfielder who gets international call ups for Northern Ireland.

Looking at his season so far he made appearances in 4 of the 5 LC games, played the 90 against Hibs, started against St Johnstone then dropped out for the next 3, went away with NI where was on the bench against Lithuania and played 63 mins against Estonia but then disappeared entirely for their next game.

Since then he's made 2 appearances off the bench for us; 1 minute against Rangers at Ibrox and the 27 mins against County. As @crazylegsjoe_mfc says since the County game of the last 5 he's only made the bench as an unused sub against Celtic.

Spoiler

565440426_ScreenShot2021-11-02at09_40_13.thumb.png.cad3b762f3ae03b072ef713b85b148d7.png

I get the impression that Alexander isn't always entirely straight when he's talking about injuries/squad health to the press though.

He mentioned the other week that being "available" didn't necessarily mean they were fit to play. I'll admit that while it's a pedant's point, I get what he's saying. Given the stop-start nature of his season so far it wouldn't be a massive surprise if Donnelly wasn't "injured" as such but also wasn't "match fit".

I mean, with the Reserve league having been patched I take it we're playing bounce games that no one other than the extreme ITK-ers ever hears about.

Edited by capt_oats
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