Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Archie McSquackle]

Is that not true of any team though? Like, it's how the game works?
We rely on our opponents not taking the chances they're able to create and us taking the chances we create?

Absolutely but this season we've seemed at times to have gone with the tactic of letting teams come at us, hoping they don't take their chances and we manage to nick something. Sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't but we've rarely been particularly impressive.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I think we have to be offering Watt the sort of numbers we were talking about for Campbell and Turnbull. We're not going to make a profit on him the way we did with those two but he's a forward of far higher quality than we have any right to attract that's essentially fallen into our lap because he's a bit of a weirdo and stays five minutes away.

[Neil86]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

Missed the game on Saturday, so can't comment on it - but this interview reads like a more savvy supporter-friendly version of the Gun to the Head. What is interesting is to see what he is really wanting. At his age, it's feasible that a long contract near the top of our pay scale gives him the security he needs rather than heading off down south for a quick top up of the pension fund (or going into semi-retirement at Aberdeen like Gallagher) as it would allow him to enjoy his football. 

If he leaves at the end of the season (with his reputation repaired) for more money- he can't really be criticised at all based on his contribution.

That's a really good point actually, a three year deal as one of our higher/highest earners might be very appealing to him. I sincerely hope this is the case.

[capt_oats]

47 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

Absolutely but this season we've seemed at times to have gone with the tactic of letting teams come at us, hoping they don't take their chances and we manage to nick something. Sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't but we've rarely been particularly impressive.

I suppose it just depends how you choose to look at it.

"Hoping" the other side don't take their chances implies that it's mostly luck, which I'm not sure it is. If we're set up in such a way that we're making the opposition take lower quality shots then that's more down to actually being quite efficient/effective defensively.

I can't remember whether it was on here or over on Steelmen where one of the resident Robinson h8rs was putting forward the argument that the only reason we weren't in a relegation scrap was because opposition strikers were shite.

To me at least, this isn't that.

Of the 13 goals we've conceded 2 have been penalties, 1 a direct free kick, 1 an O.G, 1 a cross and 1 was blatantly offside. Turnbull's 25 yard ping was entirely predictable but it was by no means a high percentage opportunity we'd coughed up.

I get that for a lot of folk ceding possession feels counter-intuitive and it also probably underpins why a lot of folk seem to be getting bent out of shape in the "we're not playing well" stakes but there's definitely a difference between consciously letting the opposition have the ball and defending it and being "under pressure".

Edited October 26, 2021 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

Most teams in this division are shit, so letting them have the ball, move up the park, and leave space to counter, is generally a solid plan that gets you chances.

[Ron Aldo]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I think we have to be offering Watt the sort of numbers we were talking about for Campbell and Turnbull. We're not going to make a profit on him the way we did with those two but he's a forward of far higher quality than we have any right to attract that's essentially fallen into our lap because he's a bit of a weirdo and stays five minutes away.

I hope this is the description of Watt which came up on that fancy new scouting system we're using. 

[Guest superward]

2 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I think we have to be offering Watt the sort of numbers we were talking about for Campbell and Turnbull. We're not going to make a profit on him the way we did with those two but he's a forward of far higher quality than we have any right to attract that's essentially fallen into our lap because he's a bit of a weirdo and stays five minutes away.

I'm broadly on board with this - I think. 

I'm a big fan of Tony and he has been great this calendar year for us. First half he added to the team in a general playing sense but didn't really score that many (1 from GA taking over to end of season). He's in a good bit of goalscoring form his season specifically (6 already) which is what was lacking as a main striker for many.

But I do just wonder if GA would be quite happy to take the risk and let him go rather than commit to, probably, making him our highest paid player for 2 or 3 years given he has likely no sell on value.

GA brought in KVV to play through the middle (as Watt was likely going to be away in August) and he's bringing in the Irish player who very much sounds like the number 10 we really need. 

It wouldn't surprise me if GA has set a limit to what he will spend on Tony. Ideally I'd like to see if his goal return continues past this period where he's looking for a new deal but we don't really have that luxury 

 

[ZX1886]

As much as I like Tony and think his work rate is great, I wouldn’t be paying ridiculous money to keep him here.

He’s quite right to look around the squad and see the deals that have been done this season and ask for an improved contract that gives him more security.

I suspect it’d be a 2 year deal with slightly improved finances but nothing crazy.

['WellDel]

3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I think we have to be offering Watt the sort of numbers we were talking about for Campbell and Turnbull. We're not going to make a profit on him the way we did with those two but he's a forward of far higher quality than we have any right to attract that's essentially fallen into our lap because he's a bit of a weirdo and stays five minutes away.

As much money as we can afford, Lord Mayor of Motherwell and a penthouse flat in Dalriada Crescent minimum. Got to go all in.

[Doctor Manhattan]

9 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

As much money as we can afford, Lord Mayor of Motherwell and a penthouse flat in Dalriada Crescent minimum. Got to go all in.

And a billboard by the Electric Bar, no half-measures.

In fact, make it four billboards, screw Ebbing, Missouri.

[Desp]

Every chance Watt will move on and we'll just get Devante Cole back on loan again. 

[Busta Nut]

I love Tony Watt, it's clear that I don't love him as much as some of you.

[Kapowzer]

His stats are certainly impressive and no doubt piqued some interest around the country. If his desire is to stay local or in Scotland in general I feel there's two clubs with bigger budgets than us that could tempt him depending on how their season goes and if they lose any personnel.

Hibs - Nisbet has not been too great but may still get a move elsewhere due to his age and perceived potential leaving a hole.

Dundee Utd - Courts seems to be building something there and normally they could win a bidding war with us but we have a lot of Turnbull cash left.

Aberdeen seem happy with Ramirez but they have previous, St. Mirren would maybe have a shout if he was done, 

If however the family home, the Mrs' job, relations, social circles etc. and they way he's regarded all count in our favour.

From his performances to the way he conducts himself, there's every reason he should be our nest paid player for a signature, I suspect at present its either Kelly or Slattery.

.

[Widge]

It’s interesting with Watt that he’s fallen into the same pattern of having a year left on his deal, scored some goals before the start of November and then wants an improved contract. Now I’m not for a minute saying that he’s not worth it for Motherwell, the worry would be is he reverts to the player he was before knowing that a deal isn’t possible and sulks a little. I’m sure that won’t happen, but there’s always the risk of a new deal reaches an impasse. 

[Neil86]

30 minutes ago, Widge said:

It’s interesting with Watt that he’s fallen into the same pattern of having a year left on his deal, scored some goals before the start of November and then wants an improved contract. Now I’m not for a minute saying that he’s not worth it for Motherwell, the worry would be is he reverts to the player he was before knowing that a deal isn’t possible and sulks a little. I’m sure that won’t happen, but there’s always the risk of a new deal reaches an impasse. 

I'm fairly certain this was the rhetoric before he signed his last deal with us, and it wasn't the case. For me, Watt is comfortably our best player, also our most consistent, has been since last season. 

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

I'm fairly certain this was the rhetoric before he signed his last deal with us, and it wasn't the case. For me, Watt is comfortably our best player, also our most consistent, has been since last season. 

Aye, I know some of the Saintees have a weird beef with Tony Watt for whatever reason but the fact is he's signed 3 contracts with us prior to this, was our PoTY last year and has consistently been a very good player for us. Assuming he sees out his deal with us he'll have been with us for 2.5 years at a point where he should be hitting his peak years, that's unusual in itself as we normally get them on their ascent or as they're winding down.

As @YassinMoutaouakil says, it's a weird quirk that's meant he's landed in our lap when he has.

I'm pretty sure he did a podcast (actually, it may have been OTB) last year where he discussed his original short term deal with the club where the negotiation was him basically saying to Burrows/Robinson "I'll sign the deal, just pay me what you can afford" and was done a day after he'd been in the door on trial. You can't argue with the graft he's put in in terms of strength and conditioning under Robinson/Alexander either.

I don't think you'd find many Motherwell fans who'd particularly have a problem with his position on his contract now tbh. He's been very good for the club and the club have been very good for him. If that means he's done enough to have clubs willing to chuck some money at him then absolutely fair fucks.

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, Widge said:

It’s interesting with Watt that he’s fallen into the same pattern of having a year left on his deal, scored some goals before the start of November and then wants an improved contract. Now I’m not for a minute saying that he’s not worth it for Motherwell, the worry would be is he reverts to the player he was before knowing that a deal isn’t possible and sulks a little. I’m sure that won’t happen, but there’s always the risk of a new deal reaches an impasse. 

Saints fans have been pedalling this line in here on almost a monthly basis since he turned up for us, and it hasn't once been true, tbh.

On 24/10/2021 at 10:48, Busta Nut said:

The midfield is horrible. Even if we got the combination right the system is terrible.

 

Just coming back to this, I don't think there is a right combination tbh. The only one we've not really seen much of is Donnelly for whatever reason that is, and I'm not convinced he can fix it either. Whether the guy is Goss and he isn't up to speed yet is possible, but from all of our midfield options at the moment, there isn't a combination of midfielders for us that gives us what we need there, so we slog it out until January until the Irish laddie comes in and he fills that hole. We're short a body, which was presumably Gotts in the summer and ended up being Goss when we didn't get him.

All, again, comes back to recruitment, and what appears to be our shift to building a team over an extended period with longer term deals, rather than every summer.

Switch to a back 3 doesn't help us either, as that then leaves us with Woolery, Justin, Shields and Roberts all sitting in the stands with f**k all to do, I'm not sure we've got an aggressive centre-half to step in to win balls on the deck so we end up with Johansen/Ojala/Mugabi defending balls coming in so we end up very deep, the same lack of guile in the middle of the park, and an over-reliance on O'Donnell/Grimshaw and Carroll/McGinley to get balls in the box. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

My opinion on Tony Watt leaving at the end of his contract pretty much mirrors my thoughts when Allan Campbell did in the summer.

He has made massive contributions and his attitude has been spot on every minute that he's been on the pitch.

In my opinion, being a very good Motherwell player is where I would put Watt (much like I did Campbell). Mind you there's a reason I'm writing this on a forum and not working as a scout. 

Even through I think that, do I begrudge him leaving us to try and make more money? Absolutely not, it's a short career and he has to look after himself.

There will be multiple times down the years where we get someone who you could describe as "lost their way a bit" before a mutually beneficial stint puts them back on the right path and they move on. That's just the size and type of club we are.

That said, I still do really hope we do tie him down, because the combination of his quality and his industry will be difficult to replace.

[Swello]

The one thing with Watt that was interesting was a mutual understanding from Watt and Alexander (based on stuff they've both said in interviews) that something "wasn't right" at the start of the season, hence he got dropped for the cup game at Dens. The public chat was that it was because he wasn't doing what Alexander wanted in terms of being a goal-scorer - but I still think there was a little bit more to that than meets the eye (as you probably don't drop your best player for that IMO)...

[dezz]

Give Tony all that Scottish government loan money we took, every bit of it.
Also maybe a wee hint with the first celebration that he’s staying? Pointing to himself then pointing to the turf… ‘I’m here’..?