Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ropy]

Tony Watt, 4 goals so far, 3 headers and a leaping volley.  Keep the ball off the ground, simple as that.

[dezz]

Few observations as this was the first time seeing them in the flesh and O'Donnell and VanVeen aside possibly our current strongest starting line up. Never nice to be at home against a lower league runner up who recently shipped 6 and be gasping for a respite. That first 15 mins was like a snuff movie.
6's maybe a 7 for Watt, Lamie and Kelly for me, the rest were collectively rotten and despite the man love for a bit of his shithousery, I wasn't overly impressed with Slattery, outfought, battled and enough stray passes for me to remember to cite them on here.
You tend not to notice pace from Bevis when he plays centre half, at wing back today I was alarmed at how slow he was, just would have swore he'd be much faster before.
Lamie is OK if tasked with mopping up and not much more, when he tries to play football he's in danger of a gaff. Ojala didn't give me any indication he is an international level skipper, opposite of Pete or Aldred who came in and just started marshalling.
Kelly with his shithousery got an eye roll. Never understand time wasting bullshit or holding onto the ball when a striker wants to get it for a fast restart.
Can only feel as I've said before the midfield are perhaps hampered by instructions from the bench. However that doesn't affect basic passing to another fella in the same colour of shirt.
I'm sure I saw GA go mental at Woolery for ambing back, it is hard to tell, he seems to be in permanent rage mode on the touchline. Woolery has pace and that for me is it so far. His failure to trap a ball when in acres of space and concede a shy was woeful.
VanVeen arguing with the linesman in a nothing part of the park over a nothing decision (that turned out right), go get the easy wins son.
Long and short if Adam lasted the 90 this thread would be nuclear. 3 points is papering up a plethora of cracks.
Alexanderball is awful to watch. It took Louis till mid October to hit his stride and I hope many will still be prepared to give a few of that team time based on that. While we may have changed the transfer policy that no doubt has Robinson reeling, I thought we'd learned the lesson of a bloated squad of mediocrity. I'd rather have a squad of 23 over 28 if ten players were punted and those salaries were combined to attract a better standard.

You know we won, right?

[YassinMoutaouakil]

It's weird given St Johnstone fans are saying it's what potentially recked their season, but I think the success of our season could hinge to a large extent on how well Goss works as our "deep-lying playmaker" or whatever you'd call it. If you look at what I'd say are some of our biggest issues so far this season- centrebacks who can head the ball away but can't pass, a tendency to get overrun in midfield, and a struggle to great chances from open play, a sitting midfielder capable of receiving a pass from the defence and doing something with it could solve a lot of them.

Still I've no idea if Goss is actually good enough to do any of that, but if he is and he can also find a way to stop us giving away a dozen corners a game and tell Jake Carroll not to kick people, we're laughing.

 

Edit: realise this seems very negative given I've just listed everything we're shite at after a victory. Alexander can be as pragmatic as he wants if it continues to get results, as far as Motherwell go; good football= winning football, for me.

Edited August 28, 2021 by YassinMoutaouakil

[well fan for life]

34 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

It's weird given St Johnstone fans are saying it's what potentially recked their season, but I think the success of our season could hinge to a large extent on how well Goss works as our "deep-lying playmaker" or whatever you'd call it. If you look at what I'd say are some of our biggest issues so far this season- centrebacks who can head the ball away but can't pass, a tendency to get overrun in midfield, and a struggle to great chances from open play, a sitting midfielder capable of receiving a pass from the defence and doing something with it could solve a lot of them.

Still I've no idea if Goss is actually good enough to do any of that, but if he is and he can also find a way to stop us giving away a dozen corners a game and tell Jake Carroll not to kick people, we're laughing.

 

Edit: realise this seems very negative given I've just listed everything we're shite at after a victory. Alexander can be as pragmatic as he wants if it continues to get results, as far as Motherwell go; good football= winning football, for me.

Lads I've found Sean Goss' account.

[Kapowzer]

53 minutes ago, dezz said:

You know we won, right?

Yeah but after watching I'm as thrilled about that as a guy who signed a McDonald's franchise for downtown Kabul in mid July.

That game hinged on Charlie Adam's injury. I'm sure you also know we were having our arse handed to us at home by the championship runners up who were humiliated at Parkhead a few weeks ago? If he stayed on I'm pretty sure they would have been up at 70% possession on our turf rather than 60%. Finishing 1-1 would have made this thread red hot, a loss and it would have been as I described, nuclear. As it turns out it was 3 points which gets responses to a legitimate criticism of that performance like yours. One very ugly win, no different to Killie away last season however no plastic pitch and being away from home to blame.

If you're wanting to play deep, invite crosses and shut up shop then you need discipline and composure and I'm not seeing much of that either apart from 3 or 4 individuals. Maybe what would help is if our players passed to someone wearing the same coloured top as them. We should look at getting a sign for above the tunnel they could touch before the walking out like at Anfield "Amber Good, Blue Bad".

I may be in the minority but I'd hope to at least improve on the prior season. The checkbook from Turnbull's sale has been opened, well what is left after keeping our heads above water in the past year, stadium improvements and initiatives. You'd think those who have endured from manager to manager and seen the Seedorf and Hylton's of this world come through our books would have learned something. Yet again we're heading for a squad of approx 28.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Kapowzer

[rowsdower]

I think the sample size is big enough to suggest alexanderball works, and f**k knows how. I think it's a combination of analytics and voodoo. 

There has been a fair bit of chopping and changing, and there are some players that are still getting up to speed, which hopefully accounts for the silly mistakes. Hopefully the break helps with this, and getting any further signings up to speed. 

I also enjoy the shithousery of Slattery. With him and van veen, plus us winning by playing shite, we should generate a fair amount of hate this year. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

3 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

I think the sample size is big enough to suggest alexanderball works, and f**k knows how. I think it's a combination of analytics and voodoo. 

There has been a fair bit of chopping and changing, and there are some players that are still getting up to speed, which hopefully accounts for the silly mistakes. Hopefully the break helps with this, and getting any further signings up to speed. 

I also enjoy the shithousery of Slattery. With him and van veen, plus us winning by playing shite, we should generate a fair amount of hate this year. 

The best types of seasons, if we're honest.

[well fan for life]

38 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

The best types of seasons, if we're honest.

If we can beat folk and make them really angry about it then I could not be more in favour of it.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

53 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

If we can beat folk and make them really angry about it then I could not be more in favour of it.

As long Sean "Gossy" Goss is at the centre of it, I'm in.

[thisGRAEME]

All the chat after the dundee cup game was that the next two games were massive and we've fuckin won them both sooo fair play?

Remain mildly concerned at the big work-in-progress vibes off our team because what if we never stop being that, but also we're winning games with Mugabi at right back and keeping clean sheets with 10 men so f**k it.

[Antiochas III]

Dundee dominated possession because it was simply the tactic to allow them to have the ball and move on the counter.  The fact they had 60%+ of the possession and the closest they came to scoring  was smashing the bar when they caught us on the counter tells you the game plan worked and in honest at no point except the above mentioned was I worried about Dubdee winning.   

[stu92]

I'd much prefer agricultural football that won more than it lost than the dominant yet winless football of this time last season. Sums up football fans tbh that we're still moaning about how we win games.

Getting KVV and SOD back into the starting line-up will definitely help with the quality of football we play. Despite Dundee having majority of the ball I never really felt concerned they'd score (other than scudding the bar in the first half). Thought we were very good at managing the game/being streetwise/timewasting/etc when we went down to 10 men, how many Motherwell teams of recent seasons would've collapsed and conceded after that?

Mon the Alexanderball!

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

It's weird given St Johnstone fans are saying it's what potentially recked their season, but I think the success of our season could hinge to a large extent on how well Goss works as our "deep-lying playmaker"

He fucked us there because he's got zero agility.

Receives the ball off the defence and is fucked if anyone presses him as he's not got the ability to quickly change direction, while also being completely one footed. It's Paul Paton-esque the way he has to get the ball on his left foot.

It also harms him defensively. I'd be amazed if you didn't get a couple of examples of it in his cameo yesterday tbh. Player runs at him, he stands square, player runs past him, he stands still and tries to grab their shirt. Then he either gives away a foul or they're in behind him. So flat footed and either can't anticipate what they're away to do or he's just too slow.

If you're reliant on him in there then you're fucked. He'll spray a couple of good balls about a game maybe, but he'll leave your CBs completely exposed.

[RandomGuy.]

I'm aware next time we play you he's having a stormer and scoring a hat trick, btw.

[capt_oats]

13 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

He fucked us there because he's got zero agility.

Receives the ball off the defence and is fucked if anyone presses him as he's not got the ability to quickly change direction, while also being completely one footed. It's Paul Paton-esque the way he has to get the ball on his left foot.

It also harms him defensively. I'd be amazed if you didn't get a couple of examples of it in his cameo yesterday tbh. Player runs at him, he stands square, player runs past him, he stands still and tries to grab their shirt. Then he either gives away a foul or they're in behind him. So flat footed and either can't anticipate what they're away to do or he's just too slow.

If you're reliant on him in there then you're fucked. He'll spray a couple of good balls about a game maybe, but he'll leave your CBs completely exposed.

Out of curiosity what shape was TW playing when he had Goss in the team?

Reason I ask is that if we're sticking with a 3 in the middle then having him alongside a fit Donnelly and Slattery, especially Slattery, probably gives us an amount of snideness that could offset Goss' defensive limitations enough to just let him float around pinging Hollywood balls around the joint.

To @YassinMoutaouakil's point, I'd see Slattery as the 'deep lying playmaker' with Goss more advanced in this arrangement.

Also, as a general point...Tony Watt on 3 goals in 4 league games, small sample size but given what Alexander did for Cole last season is there an argument that he's a manager who can get goals out of famously non-scoring forwards?

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Out of curiosity what shape was TW playing when he had Goss in the team?

Reason I ask is that if we're sticking with a 3 in the middle then having him alongside a fit Donnelly and Slattery, especially Slattery, probably gives us an amount of snideness that could offset Goss' defensive limitations enough to just let him float around pinging Hollywood balls around the joint.

He always played in a midfield 3 for us.

Usually had Murray Davidson beside him to do the "dirty stuff". Sometimes we had Callachan in there to do all the running for Goss too, but by the end Craig had come back in because Goss was such an issue defensively.

It makes sense in theory what you're saying, but in practice you won't get away with one side of your midfield having someone who can't defend on it. Even if you play him in front of a holding midfielder teams will just target Goss and that'll lead to Donnelly getting dragged out of position, which is exactly what happened with us when he put Goss on the left of a three with a holding midfielder behind him and a workhorse beside him.

He's just so shit defensively. Honestly either let's the player past or gives away a foul every time anyone goes near him.

[ropy]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

He always played in a midfield 3 for us.

Usually had Murray Davidson beside him to do the "dirty stuff". Sometimes we had Callachan in there to do all the running for Goss too, but by the end Craig had come back in because Goss was such an issue defensively.

It makes sense in theory what you're saying, but in practice you won't get away with one side of your midfield having someone who can't defend on it. Even if you play him in front of a holding midfielder teams will just target Goss and that'll lead to Donnelly getting dragged out of position, which is exactly what happened with us when he put Goss on the left of a three with a holding midfielder behind him and a workhorse beside him.

He's just so shit defensively. Honestly either let's the player past or gives away a foul every time anyone goes near him.

We are going to have a Scandinavian wall the back leaving the midfielders to show off their soccer skills.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

We are going to have a Scandinavian wall the back leaving the midfielders to show off their soccer skills.

Tbf my whole data shtick has Ojala as slow and relatively immobile too.

If you end up in a situation where your left side is Lamie, Ojala, and Goss, you're not having a good time if your opponents have anyone with pace.

[Yorky]

Goss is going to be an interesting one, obviously very early days but he’s certainly got ability, whether he develops any further while with us time will tell. We’re pretty good at bringing out the best in players who maybe need a fresh start. We were told sir Tony would down tools but that never happened, Carroll and Roberts were the worst players of all time, Aldred could not defend. I’m happy to wait and see if we can build on his strengths.

[Casagolda]

42 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Also, as a general point...Tony Watt on 3 goals in 4 league games, small sample size but given what Alexander did for Cole last season is there an argument that he's a manager who can get goals out of famously non-scoring forwards?

The thought crossed my mind too. KVV certainly seemed to have the best scoring season of his career under Alexander as well. 

Maybe Alexander actually knows what he’s doing? 

As I said yesterday, it’s a hard watch at times but you really can’t argue with the results. I do feel we really need to use the ball better but I think if you drop SODS, KVV and one of Donnelly/Goss into yesterday’s team then our use of the ball would probably improve drastically.

As a side note, noticed there was no Crawford or Lawless in the squad yesterday… 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Casagolda