Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ropy]

19 minutes ago, ZX1886 said:

Robinson’s league record vs Rangers
10 matches played. (6 home | 4 away)
0 wins | 3 draws | 7 defeats
Scored - 10
Conceded - 29

Robinson’s league record vs Celtic
11 matches played. (6 home | 5 away)
0 wins | 3 draws | 8 defeats
Scored - 7
Conceded - 32

Robinson’s combined league record vs Old Firm
21 matches played. (12 home | 9 away)
0 wins | 6 draws | 15 defeats
Scored - 17
Conceded - 61

Not pleasant viewing...

Those draws though?

[capt_oats]

I had mentioned his record against the OF a while back (turns out it was back in February 2019...yikes). 

I thought it had been discussed on this thread a bit more recently but the results have gone off a cliff since our style changed and we opened up and went 433.

Up until that point we may not have been winning but we weren't losing as much and even the losses were (relatively speaking) narrow. The 7-1 at Ibrox was an outlier in terms of those results.

I've added in the results since then in italics and tidied the post up a bit. FWIW Robinson's loss % at the time I originally posted was 53.3%

On 27/02/2019 at 08:42, capt_oats said:

Aye. I mean just looking generally home and away against both:

Home:
06/08/17 - Rangers: 1-2 (L)
29/11/17 - Celtic: 1-1 (X)
18/03/18 - Celtic: 0-0 (X)
31/03/18 - Rangers: 2-2 (X)
26/08/18 - Rangers: 3-3 (X)
05/12/18 - Celtic: 1-1 (X)
07/04/19 - Rangers: 0-3 (L)
10/08/19 - Celtic: 2-5 (L)
15/12/19 - Rangers: 2-0 (L)
05/02/20 - Celtic: 0-4 (L)
27/09/20 - Rangers: 1- 5 (L)
08/11/20 - Celtic: 1-4 (L)

Away:
01/04/17 - Rangers: 1-1 (X)
02/12/17 - Celtic: 5-1 (L)
27/12/17 - Rangers: 2-0 (L)
11/11/18 - Rangers: 7-1 (L)
19/12/18 - Celtic: 3-0 (L)
24/02/19 - Celtic: 4-1 (L)
27/10/19 - Rangers: 2-1 (L)
10/11/19 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
30/08/20 - Celtic: 3-0 (L) 

Neutral (Hampden) :
22/10/17 - Rangers 0-2 (W)
26/11/17 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
19/05/18 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)

P 24 W 1 D 6 L 17

For context I've included McGhee's results for his 2nd stint and also McCall's in the spoiler below.

TL;DR = McGhee lost 90.9% of his games against them, McCall lost 72.7%. Robinson is 70.8%.

I mean it's up for debate how McCoist/Lennon/Deila's sides compare with Rodgers/Caixinha/Murty/Gerrard's teams and also how Robinson's resources compare against McCall and McGhee but there you go. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Working below:

  Reveal hidden contents

McGhee:
Home:
17/10/15 - Celtic: 0-1 (L)
09/04/16 - Celtic: 1-2 (L)
03/12/16 - Celtic: 3-4 (L)
28/01/17 - Rangers: 0-2 (L)

Away:
19/12/15 - Celtic: 1-2 (W)
15/05/16 - Celtic: 7-0 (L)
09/08/16 - Celtic: 5-0 (L)
20/08/16 - Rangers: 2-1 (L)
15/10/16 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
21/01/17 - Rangers: 2-1 (L)
18/02/17 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)

P 11 W 1 D 0 L 10

McCall
Home:
27/02/11 - Celtic: 2-0 (W)
20/04/11 - Rangers: 0-5 (L)
21/08/11 - Rangers: 0-3 (L)
06/11/11 - Celtic: 1-2 (L)
31/03/12 - Celtic: 0-3 (L)
29/09/12 - Celtic: 0-2 (L)
27/02/13 - Celtic: 2-1 (W)
28/04/13 - Celtic: 3-1 (W)
06/12/13 - Celtic: 0-5 (L)
19/04/14 - Celtic: 3-3 (X)

Away:
12/02/11 - Rangers: 6-0 (L)
07/09/11 - Celtic: 4-0 (L)
02/01/12 - Rangers: 3-0 (L)
02/02/12 - Celtic: 1-0 (L)
05/05/12 - Rangers: 0-0 (X)
26/09/12 - Rangers*: 2-0 (L)
02/01/13 - Celtic: 0-1 (L)
05/10/13 - Celtic: 2-0 (L)
18/01/14 - Celtic: 3-0 (L)
21/09/14 - Celtic: 1-1 (X)

Neutral (Hampden):
30/01/11 - Rangers: 1-2 (L)
21/05/11 - Celtic: 0-3 (L)

P 22 W 3 D 3 L 16

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by capt_oats

[Swello]

11 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

See on aa bit of a tangent, watching fitba on the telly is utter baws.

I've nae idea how folk do it.

I put the game off after St Mirren's goal on Sat and I doubt I will watch the game v the Hu ns unless I am in the house anyway.

My problem is that I've struggled to give a f**k about the season since day 1 - other than Sportscene and our games on Alba, I don't watch football on TV and so being forced to do so has been shite. I'm the type that clubs must love as I go to games and buy season tickets regardless of what state things are in on the pitch - but I have only been genuinely excited about football 3 times this season - our penalty shoot out win in NI, and Scotland's playoff games against Israel and Serbia (and i'm a 90%-10% in the club vs country thing in normal times). Also - it's fair to say that getting 6 points from the SPFL disciplinary committee was genuinely the highlight of the club season for me so far because at least it was quite funny.

I did watch the whole game on Saturday, although I was doing other stuff too - but last Saturday, I went out and did something else despite having a stream of the Hibs game available for free and it normally being one of our more entertaining fixtures (and one that I would never have missed if we were allowed to go). In a wider sense, I've lost any interest in other football - I couldn't tell you with certainty who is top of the Championship (a league I am normally interested in) or the EPL (a league that I don't give the tiniest f**k about but is hard to avoid). The only non-Motherwell football thing I'm doing is watching A View From the Terrace.

Obviously, the main "culprit" of this is the 'Rona - it's not the club's fault that everything is fucked - and I've got a lot of sympathy for them. On the other hand, we have a squad in terms of size and perceived quality that wouldn't be too far off what we would have in normal times and yet we seem to be a team without any sort of identity. If we were less insipid and better to watch, would I be more up for it? 

[well fan for life]

Aye like I think it's difficult to get as engaged in a game watching it on the telly. Particularly when the stream runs behind by about 30 seconds so we concede a corner on my laptop but my phone's pinged me to tell me we're 1-0 down. I think it ends up being something that's on in the background while you do other things rather than having your routine when you spend the Saturday afternoon at the football. 

I think the club (that's club with a lower case c) will have a real hard time selling season tickets for next season if there's still any dubiety over whether we'll get into Fir Park before Christmas 2021. Like it's difficult to tell people to part with their hard earned for two seasons running where you might never actually make use of it. 

[capt_oats]

20 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Aye like I think it's difficult to get as engaged in a game watching it on the telly. Particularly when the stream runs behind by about 30 seconds so we concede a corner on my laptop but my phone's pinged me to tell me we're 1-0 down. I think it ends up being something that's on in the background while you do other things rather than having your routine when you spend the Saturday afternoon at the football. 

I think the club (that's club with a lower case c) will have a real hard time selling season tickets for next season if there's still any dubiety over whether we'll get into Fir Park before Christmas 2021. Like it's difficult to tell people to part with their hard earned for two seasons running where you might never actually make use of it. 

The other side of that is that the club have their promise that folk who bought season tickets this season have their 19 games anyway. So as it stands folk are due to be credited back for 9 games already.

They could potentially be looking at trying to shift half season tickets or flexi-tickets to those punters for 21/22.

Edited December 14, 2020 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

8 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

The other side of that is that the club have their promise that folk who bought season tickets this season have their 19 games anyway. So as it stands folk are due to be credited back for 9 games already.

They could potentially be looking at trying to shift half season tickets or flexi-tickets to those punters for 21/22.

Tbh I suspected when they said that chat that there would be an element of the club painting themselves into a corner on that front. I suspect there will be a bit of asking if people would be alright not getting the full credit as it was with asking for refunds at the end of last season. 

[capt_oats]

Just now, well fan for life said:

Tbh I suspected when they said that chat that there would be an element of the club painting themselves into a corner on that front. I suspect there will be a bit of asking if people would be alright not getting the full credit as it was with asking for refunds at the end of last season. 

Aye, I mean there's no snark from me about the club trying to be seen to "do the right thing".

Hopefully they'll be able to sort something out that gives ST holders some sort of value without necessarily causing problems for the club.

[ZX1886]

I think the problem the club has is that it took them so long to fix existing problems with the stream. Can anyone really say for the first few months we got value for money? I get that they gave us the Glentoran game for free as a thank you and apology for the issues and that pretty much all other clubs had problems as well but when you see how others clubs (including lower league teams) managed to overcome them in a matter of weeks yet we've had to wait until December for the first uninterrupted stream (I didn't watch Glentoran or the cup game against St Johnstone on the stream so I don't know how they worked) it makes you wonder what was the club actually doing about it at their end. 

Regardless, I'll still renew my Season Ticket next season but I can't see the more casual supporter sticking around if it remains the same. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by ZX1886

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

It's a tough one. I would just have been happy if the streams were covered, I wasn't concerned about getting the games back. Providing no major change in circumstance for me, I would be happy to buy a full season ticket again next season, but I realise there will be people who have lost jobs and also people who only saw the value/merit in buying a season ticket if they were going to get the extra games refunded back on it.

Obviously, I very rarely watched Motherwell on TV prior to this season, but the experience of watching other games, be that SPFL, Champion's League, EPL has been much worse without crowds. Although, for example, my interest in the EPL has been dwindling for years, but I was delighted when I could even swap MOTD2 for the 3 minute highlight video you get on SkyGo. I can barely even be bothered with the Champion's League goals show in the background either now. It's crazy that this is how apathetic I am to having so much live football at my fingertips at a time where I can barely leave the house to do anything else.

As @Busta Nut said a while back, if you were watching football for the first time now, you wouldn't keep watching.

[well fan for life]

I'll still renew my season ticket. I always will and have done for about 15 years now. But I don't hold any grudges against anyone who can't for whatever reason. 

Prior to this season I rarely watched any football on the telly of any sort. I was brought up in a household with my old man having the radio on all the time so if there's a game on I'm interested in I end up putting the radio on while I do other things. We listened to Faddy's goal in Paris with the iconic Peter Martin commentary while we were standing in the kitchen having dinner. Now I'm stuck with telly as my only option and I cannae believe folk enjoy this pish. 

 

[Swello]

I think what has happened this season is that football has been stripped right back to what TV companies (and 100% armchair supporters) see it as. The problem is that for folk that actually go to the games as their main thing, it's never been about the stuff on the park only and it feels like a huge downgrade being so remote from it all. If we take away the social side of it and all the intangible stuff, it's a hugely diminished thing and I think that will also be the case for socially distanced stuff that Ross County supporters can do now - does sitting on a seat quietly on your own feel like the real thing? 

One of the things that I've been most surprised about is how much in the past I've obviously judged players and performances on the stuff that you just don't see on TV/Stream. If you can't see what a player does off the ball or see their body language or the "wider" view of the game, you get an incomplete picture. There are guys that we signed in the summer (Laing being a good example) that I honestly don't know if I rate them or not despite them playing plenty of minutes.

I'll get a season ticket as usual next year unless I end up losing my job or whatever - this season's money is spent to keep the club going as far as I'm concerned and that was always likely to be the case and so I bought it with that in mind (and that's value for money for me). I'm not interested in getting "free" games next season, so I hope they let you waive that one..

[YassinMoutaouakil]

6 hours ago, Swello said:

My problem is that I've struggled to give a f**k about the season since day 1 - other than Sportscene and our games on Alba, I don't watch football on TV and so being forced to do so has been shite. I'm the type that clubs must love as I go to games and buy season tickets regardless of what state things are in on the pitch - but I have only been genuinely excited about football 3 times this season - our penalty shoot out win in NI, and Scotland's playoff games against Israel and Serbia (and i'm a 90%-10% in the club vs country thing in normal times). Also - it's fair to say that getting 6 points from the SPFL disciplinary committee was genuinely the highlight of the club season for me so far because at least it was quite funny.

I did watch the whole game on Saturday, although I was doing other stuff too - but last Saturday, I went out and did something else despite having a stream of the Hibs game available for free and it normally being one of our more entertaining fixtures (and one that I would never have missed if we were allowed to go). In a wider sense, I've lost any interest in other football - I couldn't tell you with certainty who is top of the Championship (a league I am normally interested in) or the EPL (a league that I don't give the tiniest f**k about but is hard to avoid). The only non-Motherwell football thing I'm doing is watching A View From the Terrace.

Obviously, the main "culprit" of this is the 'Rona - it's not the club's fault that everything is fucked - and I've got a lot of sympathy for them. On the other hand, we have a squad in terms of size and perceived quality that wouldn't be too far off what we would have in normal times and yet we seem to be a team without any sort of identity. If we were less insipid and better to watch, would I be more up for it? 

It's scary how accurately this applies to me this season as well, right down to the Coleraine game being the only one that has garnered any sort of emotional response from me. To be fair I think that's the only game I've watched this season while inebriated and I was also in the middle of self isolating so my cabin fever paranoia had reached the point where I was semi-convinced Coleraine had paid off the refs.

In normal seasons I think we all occasionally find ourselves asking "what the f**k is the point in all this?" but the social aspect and chance of an unexpected bounce at a goal etc stop me from ever losing interest completely I football. Now that the product has been stripped down to it's barest, most rudimentary form it's a lot harder to stay invested. I think I've said it before but unless we go on a decent cup run or end up in a relegation battle I'm rapidly losing interest in this season.

That said, if we take the lead at Ibrox on Saturday you can 100% guarantee I'll be pacing around my living room until the carpet wears thin.

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

That said, if we take the lead at Ibrox on Saturday you can 100% guarantee I'll be pacing around my living room until the carpet wears thin.

I am enormously certain your carpet will remain in its current condition

As a supporter who has sadly stopped coming to matches - other than Euro or Cup glory hunting 'specials'  - several (ok, many) years ago, I've always been happy when I've had the chance to follow 'Well matches on TV.  But I'm struggling to concentrate all the way through a livestream now.  The lack of proper match atmosphere must have  something to do with it.  Oh, and the fact we're quite crap at the moment.

[well fan for life]

9 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

It's scary how accurately this applies to me this season as well, right down to the Coleraine game being the only one that has garnered any sort of emotional response from me. To be fair I think that's the only game I've watched this season while inebriated and I was also in the middle of self isolating so my cabin fever paranoia had reached the point where I was semi-convinced Coleraine had paid off the refs.

In normal seasons I think we all occasionally find ourselves asking "what the f**k is the point in all this?" but the social aspect and chance of an unexpected bounce at a goal etc stop me from ever losing interest completely I football. Now that the product has been stripped down to it's barest, most rudimentary form it's a lot harder to stay invested. I think I've said it before but unless we go on a decent cup run or end up in a relegation battle I'm rapidly losing interest in this season.

That said, if we take the lead at Ibrox on Saturday you can 100% guarantee I'll be pacing around my living room until the carpet wears thin.

Aye I think that's what is it. Football on a Saturday isn't sitting watching Jeff & The Boys for me. It's only occasionally I'll go to the pub before the game but apart from that it's getting out the door, heading to the game with the radio on, a walk up to Fir Park, get my pie & bovril then spend the game chatting shit with the same folk I've sat near for years. Honestly some of the best memories I've got from the football came when we were shite. I'd rank the Morton game where Baraclough got the sack as one of the most entertaining games I've been to because we were so unbelievably shite all we could do was laugh. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

6 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Aye I think that's what is it. Football on a Saturday isn't sitting watching Jeff & The Boys for me. It's only occasionally I'll go to the pub before the game but apart from that it's getting out the door, heading to the game with the radio on, a walk up to Fir Park, get my pie & bovril then spend the game chatting shit with the same folk I've sat near for years. Honestly some of the best memories I've got from the football came when we were shite. I'd rank the Morton game where Baraclough got the sack as one of the most entertaining games I've been to because we were so unbelievably shite all we could do was laugh. 

I wasn't at the Morton game but I look back similarly fondly on my pal almost having to leave Fir Park with a police escort after trying to start a There's Only One Mark McGhee chant when we were 5-1 down to Dundee. 

[santheman]

Its missing the social aspect of it that does me in as well.  Not being able to sit with your mates kidding on you know what you're talking about when it comes to formations and tactics and what Robbo should be doing to change things, trying to have a bit of banter with the linesman, moaning about the pies and lukewarm bovril, hoping you can keep yer pish in so you don't have to use the toilets

[ropy]

10 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Aye I think that's what is it. Football on a Saturday isn't sitting watching Jeff & The Boys for me. It's only occasionally I'll go to the pub before the game but apart from that it's getting out the door, heading to the game with the radio on, a walk up to Fir Park, get my pie & bovril then spend the game chatting shit with the same folk I've sat near for years. Honestly some of the best memories I've got from the football came when we were shite. I'd rank the Morton game where Baraclough got the sack as one of the most entertaining games I've been to because we were so unbelievably shite all we could do was laugh. 

Was that the one with the keystone cops running down the track because a boy at the front shoved his pal.

[ZX1886]

18 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I'd rank the Morton game where Baraclough got the sack as one of the most entertaining games I've been to because we were so unbelievably shite all we could do was laugh. 

Same for me but with the 7-2 game up at Pittodrie, terrible night on the park but we all sat pissing ourselves at the Mark “get that tae...” McGhee video coming back down the road.

Haven’t missed a Motherwell game at Ibrox in over 8 years. Even if we go 1-0 up I won’t get too excited, we have a habit of giving away leads to them. If Watt taps in our 4th 5 minutes from time then I guess I’ll join others in jumping around my flat.

Edited December 14, 2020 by ZX1886

[well fan for life]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

Was that the one with the keystone cops running down the track because a boy at the front shoved his pal.

Absolutely. Haven't had that much of a laugh in the football in years. 

BBC Radio Scotland were reporting it like a full riot in the away end. My pal in work told me this the following morning asking if I knew what happened. It was barely even handbags. 

[Swello]

3 minutes ago, ropy said:

Was that the one with the keystone cops running down the track because a boy at the front shoved his pal.

It was reported as a "riot" on the Radio by reliable Check Young - a hugely entertaining night.