capt_oats Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 *sigh* I mean it's almost as if there's been a global pandemic and we're working with a reduced budget, no income from fans in the stadium and a big question mark over what sort of ST income we'll see next season seeing as we've promised our fans they'll be credited with the games played behind closed doors this season but nevertheless trying to put out a competitive side (3 points off 5th at the moment and into the 3rd QF round in Europe lads). Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean there's no accountability but it's up to Robinson to fix the issues. This was always going to be a weird season so people should probably get used to it. As @PauloPerth just said about his team in the St Johnstone thread "I think 10th place is probably job done for the board." I'd imagine we're in exactly the same position and that will be true of at least half the league. Put your feet up and have a Solero. As it stands, assuming all the #YoungMotherwell players are loaned out we're still carrying a squad of 24 bodies (albeit with 4 who have either have or are recovering from long term injuries). So unless we move additional players on I'm not sure why we'd be expecting *quality* players to come in. Sure, people can point to Robinson talking in May/June about how we'd be running with a bare minimum squad of 15/16 and supplementing with 6 or 7 youth players and getting annoyed about us punting the 6 or 7 youth players out on loan but the landscape can change. The only club who seem to be running with a bare minimum squad is St Johnstone. I think it's generally accepted that Lamie's been brought in because he's erm...versatile. In an ideal world he'd have swapped Livi's bench for ours. If Carroll, McGinley or even Donnelly had been fit there's a fair chance we wouldn't have seen anywhere as much of him as we have but they've not been fit so it is what it is. Equally Crawford's been brought in to give a bit of cover and allow Semple and Cornelius to go out and get games. You can argue the pros and cons of that but I'm not sure it's worth ruining your day over. Anyway, breaking it down, again assuming all the #YoungMotherwell are loaned out: GK: Carson, Morrison (Injured: Fox out for the season) DF - O'Donnell, Gallagher, Mugabi, Lamie, McGinley, Grimshaw (Injured: Carroll - Oct/Nov 20, Dunne - TBC) MF - Campbell, O'Hara, Polworth, Crawford, Maguire (Injured: Donnelly - Jan 2021) FW: Lang, Watt, Long, White, Hastie, Seedorf, Hylton Goalkeeper - Carson's #1 so if we loan out Morrison it'll be a Fox-a-like back up we bring in to replace him. Defence - With the back 3/5 we're using all our fit CBs and as it stands Grimshaw's the only fit cover if we're going to keep running with a back 5. Midfield - If Campbell's fit he plays, if Polworth's fit he plays. In either formation (352 or 433 we use 3 CM so 5 bodies in there still seems light IMO). Forwards - We have 7 on the books. We either play with 2 CF or 3 FW so unless we've got other clubs chapping our door wanting to sign any or all of Hylton, Seedorf or White or Rangers decide to do us a favour and recall Hastie to sell him we're stacked in that department. IMO, the two areas there's probably room to bring in short term fixes are Defence and Midfield. I can't see another forward coming in unless a couple move on. Aside from the Fear of Lamie and the fact Grimshaw's been absolute murder if Dunne's simply here to rehab from his injury (he hasn't kicked a ball since last summer and has missed significant chunks of each season he's been here) then we're definitely light IMO. Robinson may be many things but he's not daft, I'd be surprised if he was watching Lamie's performance against St Johnstone and thinking "this is fine" especially after he chucked Livi a penalty a couple of weeks prior. An Aldred or Hartley type signing would do us the world of good, either that or an actual left back to allow McGinley to move in one. As far as the midfield goes I'd say that there's a vacancy for a specialist holding mid as we've not had one of those since Ally Gorrin left. Polworth and Campbell have their positions on lock but O'Hara's not a natural fit as a DM and tbh Donnelly has his limitations in that role as well. I hate to be that guy but I'd genuinely be curious as to who folk had in mind as realistic *quality* options for us to bring in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 All things being equal we will be off the bottom of the league tonight. The only way is up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, ropy said: All things being equal we will be off the bottom of the league tonight. The only way is up. Not everything is equal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, ropy said: All things being equal we will be off the bottom of the league tonight. The only way is up. 4 minutes ago, ropy said: Not everything is equal You know all games are equal right now and both sides get a point for a draw... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Livi falling apart without Robbie Crawford right now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, capt_oats said: Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean there's no accountability but it's up to Robinson to fix the issues. This was always going to be a weird season so people should probably get used to it. As @PauloPerth just said about his team in the St Johnstone thread "I think 10th place is probably job done for the board." I'd imagine we're in exactly the same position and that will be true of at least half the league. Put your feet up and have a Solero. As it stands, assuming all the #YoungMotherwell players are loaned out we're still carrying a squad of 24 bodies (albeit with 4 who have either have or are recovering from long term injuries). So unless we move additional players on I'm not sure why we'd be expecting *quality* players to come in. Sure, people can point to Robinson talking in May/June about how we'd be running with a bare minimum squad of 15/16 and supplementing with 6 or 7 youth players and getting annoyed about us punting the 6 or 7 youth players out on loan but the landscape can change. The only club who seem to be running with a bare minimum squad is St Johnstone. I think it's generally accepted that Lamie's been brought in because he's erm...versatile. In an ideal world he'd have swapped Livi's bench for ours. If Carroll, McGinley or even Donnelly had been fit there's a fair chance we wouldn't have seen anywhere as much of him as we have but they've not been fit so it is what it is. Equally Crawford's been brought in to give a bit of cover and allow Semple and Cornelius to go out and get games. You can argue the pros and cons of that but I'm not sure it's worth ruining your day over. Anyway, breaking it down, again assuming all the #YoungMotherwell are loaned out: GK: Carson, Morrison (Injured: Fox out for the season) DF - O'Donnell, Gallagher, Mugabi, Lamie, McGinley, Grimshaw (Injured: Carroll - Oct/Nov 20, Dunne - TBC) MF - Campbell, O'Hara, Polworth, Crawford, Maguire (Injured: Donnelly - Jan 2021) FW: Lang, Watt, Long, White, Hastie, Seedorf, Hylton Goalkeeper - Carson's #1 so if we loan out Morrison it'll be a Fox-a-like back up we bring in to replace him. Defence - With the back 3/5 we're using all our fit CBs and as it stands Grimshaw's the only fit cover if we're going to keep running with a back 5. Midfield - If Campbell's fit he plays, if Polworth's fit he plays. In either formation (352 or 433 we use 3 CM so 5 bodies in there still seems light IMO). Forwards - We have 7 on the books. We either play with 2 CF or 3 FW so unless we've got other clubs chapping our door wanting to sign any or all of Hylton, Seedorf or White or Rangers decide to do us a favour and recall Hastie to sell him we're stacked in that department. IMO, the two areas there's probably room to bring in short term fixes are Defence and Midfield. I can't see another forward coming in unless a couple move on. Aside from the Fear of Lamie and the fact Grimshaw's been absolute murder if Dunne's simply here to rehab from his injury (he hasn't kicked a ball since last summer and has missed significant chunks of each season he's been here) then we're definitely light IMO. Robinson may be many things but he's not daft, I'd be surprised if he was watching Lamie's performance against St Johnstone and thinking "this is fine" especially after he chucked Livi a penalty a couple of weeks prior. An Aldred or Hartley type signing would do us the world of good, either that or an actual left back to allow McGinley to move in one. As far as the midfield goes I'd say that there's a vacancy for a specialist holding mid as we've not had one of those since Ally Gorrin left. Polworth and Campbell have their positions on lock but O'Hara's not a natural fit as a DM and tbh Donnelly has his limitations in that role as well I hate to be that guy but I'd genuinely be curious as to who folk had in mind as realistic *quality* options for us to bring *Sigh* It is almost as if your view is the only one worth considering. Either that or that you have all the answers. It is not for me to decide who is available that strengthens this current side. That is up to our Manager and the Chief scout. Your posts are always eminently sensible Capt, but are you happy with the performances these last few weeks ? Beating 2 sides from N Ireland and a St Johnstone side who are bang average does not paper over the cracks. Personally I have always been acutely aware of our standing in Scottish Football. Anything above 9th place is fine by me. It is where our budget dictates where we probably should be. Finishing 3rd was a fantastic achievement and Robinson has been a very good Manager imho. All I am saying which is not unreasonable is that our performances have been average and some players Performances have been quite poor. We have brought in a LOT more money than most of our peers. We have sold our best midfielder for near enough £3m and have brought in a player than cannot get a game for the only side that is currently below us in the table. Excuse me or any others for not getting too excited. Given the squad we have then I think we are underperforming. Add that to some of the recent signings and I am concerned for the future. Hope I am wrong. Edited September 19, 2020 by welldaft 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, ropy said: All things being equal we will be off the bottom of the league tonight. The only way is up. Was expecting more from Celtic, any non 7-6 defeat puts us back bottom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Yeah, for all we soared up to 11th I'm expecting to lose by at least two tomorrow and be back to bottom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Maybe David Turnbull and Robbie Crawford will be the modern day equivalent of the deadline day where we lost Faddy and ended up with Jason Dair. Despite that looking like horrific business on paper, we went on to do well that season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 I’d forgotten Jason Dair existed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) On 19/09/2020 at 16:18, welldaft said: It is not for me to decide who is available that strengthens this current side. That is up to our Manager and the Chief scout. Sorry, that wasn't an attempt at a 'gotcha' I was just curious as to what type of player would be viewed as a "quality" addition given our budget and the areas of the team we probably need to address. I wasn't expecting you to email the club with suggestions or anything. Simply, if Robbie Crawford doesn't float your boat then who would have. Quote are you happy with the performances these last few weeks ? Beating 2 sides from N Ireland and a St Johnstone side who are bang average does not paper over the cracks. See, this is kind of a nuanced question for me. Have the performances in the last few weeks been great, not really. It's hard to spin the 2nd half against Coleraine, though clearly the club have tried. I think everyone had MyPa 47 or Stjarnan vibes about he way the game was going. Equally we have 2 wins, a draw and 1 loss and have also had enough about us to win our first penalty shoot out since 1999 having chucked a 2-0 lead against a part time team - those circumstances would have seen us get papped out in years gone by. Although compared with the previous run of 0 wins in 5 it's better even though I was quietly pleased with the Hibs performance and was of the opinion that the County and United games were ones that 'on another day' we could and, in the case of County, should have got something out of. Could've, would've, should've. So we're in a position where we hadn't won a game in 5 league games and have clearly had to switch to a different shape to try and find some sort of alternative and we have players who are really just at the club as cover starting every game because best laid plans often go awry. Talking about underperforming - players hadn't kicked a ball competitively since March, pre-season had been materially impacted - where usually we'd have had a week in N.I followed by at least 4 friendlies plus 4 Betfred Cup games, that sort of preparation will usually be the point at which the manager can identify issues and inconsistencies. Instead we went into the season having been down at Dalziel Park in groups of 6 with 4 bounce games trying to get 30 odd players minutes in their legs and 2 additional friendlies cancelled. On top of that we've had key players injured since the first game of the season. If you look around the league there are plenty of clubs who seem to be finding this a problematic season. Both St Johnstone and Livingston were two of the form sides at the point the league shut down - St Johnstone have failed to score in 5 of their 8 games played, Livi as I type are below us in the league and sitting on the same points. So am I happy with the performances in the past few weeks? Not really. Am I willing to put these performances into some sort of context? Absolutely. Quote We have sold our best midfielder for near enough £3m and have brought in a player than cannot get a game for the only side that is currently below us in the table. That's slightly disingenuous. We've sold one of our best midfielders but it's generally accepted that we signed his replacement on 17th April last year when we announced Polworth's pre-contract. Crawford in Robinson's words is here because he is "more game ready than some of our younger boys" and “Bringing in Robbie allows us the chance to put boys out on loan, particularly Jamie Semple, Harry Robinson, Ross MacIver and Dean Cornelius." To suggest he's a Turnbull replacement is false equivalence at best. Edited September 20, 2020 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 22 hours ago, capt_oats said: a big question mark over what sort of ST income we'll see next season seeing as we've promised our fans they'll be credited with the games played behind closed doors this season This was my first thought when I seen some of your fans mewling about not spending money. Unless I've read the terms and conditions wrong, and the bragging about "record sales" is false, then theres still a slim chance you won't be getting any season ticket money next season as you'll have to be discounting every game next season for current season ticket holders (* I dont believe this will happen, but any board who havent even considered it are being negligent) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 I reckon most people will waive the refund/discount that will be due on next season’s season ticket. The Turnbull and Jimmy Scott money will see us fine regardless. I do agree with those who said our season ticket position this season was a bit of a gamble/risk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Click 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 hours ago, capt_oats said: To suggest he's a Turnbull replacement is false equivalence at best. To suggest it is a Turnbull replacement is not just a false equivalence it's completely wrong. We signed our "Turnbull replacement" last summer. Crawford is here to cover Donnelly's jersey. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Not having Robbie Crawford in your team seems to directly correlate with being bottom of the league. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Gianfranco said: I’d forgotten Jason Dair existed. How Dair you!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLIS Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Not having Robbie Crawford in your team seems to directly correlate with being bottom of the league. Times like these that I'm glad it's only a six month loan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I've just noticed Long cupping his ears to an empty Pittodrie after the second goal yesterday The Scousest man alive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome John Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Was it not fingers in his ears as if he’s not listening to what people are saying about him? sure he’s done similar before 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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