Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[craigkillie]

Is it that Kieran Maguire?
He just reads club accounts and lays it out in simple terms I think. No guesswork or presumptions.

I find the language he uses to be a bit hyperbolic at times. For example, he's said that Motherwell "burned through" money on day-to-day stuff. If you're just going to lay out facts then you shouldn't be using such emotive language.

It was the same with his comments on Inverness. He said "Shame that the club uses a legal loophole to avoid disclosing their profit and loss account". The "loophole" in question is that they, a small company, declared themselves to be a small company.

[Antiochas III]

Especially when you wouldn't class a brand new scoreboard (one you don't need to know Morse code to read), the relaying of the pitch, expansion of warm-up areas etc. as "day-to-day stuff"

[thisGRAEME]

1 minute ago, Antiochas III said:

Especially when you wouldn't class a brand new scoreboard (one you don't need to know Morse code to read), the relaying of the pitch, expansion of warm-up areas etc. as "day-to-day stuff"

I know the new one actually makes sense and is readable and looks great, but seeing how they worked around the blown bulbs and presumably archaic software to make it functioning really was a lot of fun.

[capt_oats]

48 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I find the language he uses to be a bit hyperbolic at times. For example, he's said that Motherwell "burned through" money on day-to-day stuff. If you're just going to lay out facts then you shouldn't be using such emotive language.

It was the same with his comments on Inverness. He said "Shame that the club uses a legal loophole to avoid disclosing their profit and loss account". The "loophole" in question is that they, a small company, declared themselves to be a small company.

Aye. The line about "made a loss of £691k in 2018/19, would have been close to £1.5 million had it not been for player sales." whilst factually correct seems a bit handbag clutchy as well.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but there's an implication in his wording that the player sales are to offset the loss. Which isn't necessarily the case.

We sold Kipré in the summer window so it was up front and already on the books. Presumably knowing we'd already banked that £750k+ up front (on top of the profit from the previous season) allowed us to spend on the other stuff with a bit more security.

Edited January 8, 2020 by capt_oats

[craigkillie]

It's especially weird given that player sales make up a massive part of the income of a lot of football clubs. You wouldn't say "Pizza Hut's losses would have been close to £1.5m if it hadn't been for all those pizzas that they sold". If you get income then of course you're going to spend it.

My feeling is that the guy mainly does this stuff through a prism of big clubs and then doesn't really understand what makes smaller clubs tick. It's just like the bit about the decrease in revenue being "due to less progress in cups perhaps?". Of course it is, what other reason would there be? You reached two cup finals in the previous season, which brings massive gate revenue, TV income and prize money from the four games at Hampden. Probably that money is a drop in the ocean for a big English club or even Celtic and Rangers, so he doesn't realise quite how impactful it is for a Motherwell.

Edited January 8, 2020 by craigkillie

[ropy]

Sinclair to Preston, I hope Moult has a word, are they due to play Wigan soon?  Bitter? Perhaps.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

No one should be worrying about the finances of the club. We banked the cup money from last year and paid off debts this year.

If there were any serious financial concerns we wouldn't have paid back Les as quick as we did.

 

[Muzz1886]

5 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Was the loss that we made not also related to paying off the final chunks of debt to Boyle/Hutchinson as well?

Nope, paying off debt wouldn't affect any profit or loss. It affects the cash and creditor balances only. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Spend spend spend. I want European football, a ten point deduction and defrauded florists by the end of the decade.

[CSmith]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Spend spend spend. I want European football, a ten point deduction and defrauded florists by the end of the decade.

Completely agree. Whole heartedly in favour of bringing back Ariyibi, Ainsworth, Prince Nadir and Granda Higdon to launch us into a European qualifying round. 

[Casagolda]

Apparently we’re trying to convince Long to stay for at least next season and Grimshaw is on the verge of signing a two year extension. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Casagolda

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Apparently we’re trying to convince Long to stay for at least next season and Grimshaw is on the verge of signing a two year extension. 

Sounds about right.

Grimshaw's made the RB position his own this season and his last extension was a 1 year so a 2 year offer seems fair. He's very much cult classic - not best seller.

Long? If he fancies another year then yeah...fine.

As it stands these are the players who are contracted for next season (not including the u18s) and where there are gaps:

Contracts offered (reported): Gillespie, Grimshaw, Long

Out of contract: Ferguson, Tait, Hartley, Dunne, Livingstone, Maguire, Manzinga, Ilic

Loans expiring: O'Hara

Edited January 9, 2020 by capt_oats

[Archie McSquackle]

Apparently we’re trying to convince Long to stay for at least next season and Grimshaw is on the verge of signing a two year extension. 

Does Scott Burns write for both the Express and Record? I thought it was the Star that shared sports news with the Express.

This probably shows I don't read any of them.

[Neil86]

Liam Grimshaw absolutely loves Motherwell and he can retire here as far as i'm concerned, also would be very happy with Long signing on as well.

[MP_MFC]

Does Scott Burns write for both the Express and Record? I thought it was the Star that shared sports news with the Express.

This probably shows I don't read any of them.

Used to be express but think he's basically freelance these days as his byes appear in basically every paper.

[Mr Hahn]

4 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Apparently we’re trying to convince Long to stay for at least next season and Grimshaw is on the verge of signing a two year extension. 

That background for Grimshaw's pic..... 

Of all the games that we've played at Fir Park, the background they use is from a Gretna Hearts game with the old scoreboard....

[Busta Nut]

12 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Spend spend spend. I want European football, a ten point deduction and defrauded florists by the end of the decade.

I think I know just the team for you...

[crazylegsjoe]

Happy with both Grimshaw and Long getting extended deals. Mentioned on a match thread a while back there aren't actual many strikers in the Scottish Premiership who hit double figures from open play, with 6 so far, Long is on track for double figures if he keeps it up and he has looked really sharp in a good few games lately. Grimshaw has had his usual committed, unspectacular consistent performances at right back.

As for the rest of the out of contract players, as things stand I reckon Gillespie must be offski and I'd keep Ferguson as backup to Carson.

Would be for Tait, Hartley and Dunne being offered new deals, although given both Hartley and Dunne have been susceptible to injury and we have Mugabi and Gallagher already signed, I can't see us paying all four a first-team wage. I remain unconvinced by Mugabi but I guess what he's shown, thus far anyway, that he can remain fit. I really like Dunne but I wonder if Robinson is paying any thought to the fact he's spent long periods out with similar injuries in the past two seasons. I'm sure he had similar problems in his Oldham days too. It's harsh on Tait that after playing out of position for so long, he now finds himself on the bench when we've found a proper left-back. I imagine we'll offer him a deal, but at 30, I can't see him staying unless he's going to be playing.

I'd keep Manzinga to see if he develops if his wages are low, but as things stand I'd probably get rid of Maguire, Livingstone and Ilic.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe said:

Happy with both Grimshaw and Long getting extended deals. Mentioned on a match thread a while back there aren't actual many strikers in the Scottish Premiership who hit double figures from open play, with 6 so far, Long is on track for double figures if he keeps it up and he has looked really sharp in a good few games lately. Grimshaw has had his usual committed, unspectacular consistent performances at right back.

As for the rest of the out of contract players, as things stand I reckon Gillespie must be offski and I'd keep Ferguson as backup to Carson.

Would be for Tait, Hartley and Dunne being offered new deals, although given both Hartley and Dunne have been susceptible to injury and we have Mugabi and Gallagher already signed, I can't see us paying all four a first-team wage. I remain unconvinced by Mugabi but I guess what he's shown, thus far anyway, that he can remain fit. I really like Dunne but I wonder if Robinson is paying any thought to the fact he's spent long periods out with similar injuries in the past two seasons. I'm sure he had similar problems in his Oldham days too. It's harsh on Tait that after playing out of position for so long, he now finds himself on the bench when we've found a proper left-back. I imagine we'll offer him a deal, but at 30, I can't see him staying unless he's going to be playing.

I'd keep Manzinga to see if he develops if his wages are low, but as things stand I'd probably get rid of Maguire, Livingstone and Ilic.

I was thinking about the back-up goalie situation last night - because I'm exactly that sort of Sad Boi.

By all accounts we originally brought Gillespie in because - after the Celtic offer - we thought there would be interest in Carson and other than some vague shouts (Cardiff maybe?) offers never materialised so we were left in the position where we had 2 first team goalies which worked out for us with Carson's unexpected (and lengthy) absence. Given we've committed to Carson (and vice versa) I'd imagine the goalkeeper recruitment to replace Gillespie (assuming he's away) will be a tough sell.

Realistically we'd be looking at doing what Aberdeen have done with Cerny and bring in an experienced back-up whose only real expectation is to sit on the bench - which seems less risk but perhaps slightly more expensive or a younger option but run the risk of there being a serious drop off in quality - which is pretty much what we have on the books at the moment with Ferguson.

The thing with Ferguson is he's been playing regularly at Linfield so he's gone from first pick at Airdrie to 3rd choice here to first pick (and a short European run) at Linfield. Is he likely to fancy ditching first team football to sit on the bench behind Carson? Chances are he could probably drop to the Championship and get regular starts there.

Also, if Gillespie ends up away during this window I'd be surprised if we recalled Ferguson given Linfield are 3 points off the top of the league with a game in hand. Get big Rab signed up and give him a shot playing for his boyhood team I say.

We clearly like Maguire but he's another who at his age needs games. He's got time on his side and there's a lot to like about him but I'm not sure sitting on our bench is going to help him develop.

I don't know if he's been injured or not but Livingstone's only recently appeared in the Morton first team. He's only made 4 league appearances this season which doesn't really augur well for him. I completely understand why we gave him an extension - one last shot so to speak but if he's struggling to make any sort of impact for Morton it's difficult to imagine us doing anything other than shaking his hand and saying good luck.

On Tait, it (obviously) depends on him. I'd kind of look at it another way in so much as while he's not in the team at the moment he's only an injury or a dip in form from either Grimshaw or Carroll from being back in the side. With him we're getting cover for 2 positions with 1 player - an ML1 Phil Neville if you will. The cover is something that's probably worth paying a first team wage for. Also given he's vice-captain Robinson almost certainly trusts him implicitly.

Similar to Carson whose alternative first team options were reportedly Livi and St Mirren - unless a League 1 club wanted to take a punt on Tait and give him a wage bump you'd think that would be the sort of bracket he'd be looking at up here - maybe St Johnstone given they're stuck with Tony Ralston and haven't been able to replace Ricky Fister.

I could definitely see the handsome b*****d sticking around. And I'm absolutely fine with that.

Hartley and Dunne are a bit different. As you point out Dunne signed an extension at the end of the Cup Finals season but has missed large chunks of the subsequent seasons. Also, Hartley and Gallagher have been by far a more solid partnership. I've a feeling Dunne changed agents at some point last year.

On the flip with Hartley he's been absolutely phenomenal since he's got back in the side but he'll be another year older and Robinson's big thing is pace. I thought Hartley seemed understandably non-committal when he was asked about his contract on The Longer Listen.

Reading the announcement there's actually an option for a second year on Manzinga's deal. It's not clear how that's triggered though. Ilic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Obviously player trading is our business model so there's likely to be some movement over the summer but I'd guess there's a fine balance between keeping the core of what we have and making sure we freshen things up to avoid becoming stale. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by capt_oats

[Luke92]

Might be slightly harsh on Tait but I wouldn't be terribly upset about him leaving at the end of the season. He's been a great player for us  but he has looked slower than a week in the jail for the last while now. He was never quick but he looks so vunerable to any sort of pace these days. We can blame it on lack of game time but I'm not so sure. Judging by his IG he is in tremendous shape but maybe more sprints and less cross fit is required.. In all seriousness, I think we should look at other options before renewing. Hartley could fall into a similar bracket, we will see how they both go in the second half of the season i guess.

Dunne I would be keen to keep due to this raw attributes. I have a feeling Robinson is a big fan of his and will try to keep him regardless of his injury record. His record was pretty bad when we signed him so this isn't exactly new information.

I suspect we are likely to see another decent turnover of players in the summer but I think we have a decent core nailed down so hopefully not too much upheaval.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Luke92