Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[BigTamMuller]

A few days on and I'm still wondering which is Maguire's stronger foot! 

Especially in the first half before the game became a bit more end to end, I thought Maguire was every bit as good as Polworth in his play on the ball. Would be harsh on Allan Campbell, but if Maguire is Busquets then I look forward to the game we have Polworth and Turnbull in front of him as our Xavi/Iniesta!

[welldaft]

5 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

I'd be quite surprised if he left tbh. Unless it's a truly life-changing sum of money (is that likely from either or any potential suitors?), surely he's better placed to kick around with us, be great and then take the NI job when O'Neill leaves?

It was only a matter of time before rumours started. Probably lazy journalism but both Millwall and Barnsley are reportedly interested in Robinson.  Probably Sunderland also before long.....

To be fair despite the blip at the start of last season he has done very well with a limited budget. 

The longer we stay at top end of the table the more this will happen until an offer comes along he would be silly to refuse. Would love him to stay but if he does leave would prefer it was down south rather than Aberdeen or Hearts for example. 
 

 

[AndyRoss]

He was quite candid when talking about his ambitions on Sportsound last week, I'd hope his experience at Oldham has given him an insight into the risk of making a wrong move. Sunderland job seems like a poisoned chalice, though it would make the next season of 'Sunderland Till I Die' that bit more interesting. 

 

 

[capt_oats]

17 hours ago, Lobby Dossar said:

Saw Maguire play there a few times for the U20s and he did not look out of place

IMO if he can get a couple of games under his belt he could just as Turnbull did about this time last year …… become a regular 1st team player due to his performances

Aye, I mean that's pretty much the acid test isn't it?

The first team has been littered recently with players who have been varying degrees of stand out at u20s level but for various reasons haven't made much of a dent when they've been given an opportunity and it's come to the real stuff; #DT23, Luke Watt, Dylan Mackin, David Ferguson, Jack McMillan, Ross Maclean and most recently Adam Livingstone - it's a pretty lengthy list.

Arguably you could chuck Maguire's name in there when we've tried him at centre half since being part of a back 4 that shipped 5 (FIVE) to St Johnstone would probably have put a question mark over him.

Dropping him into midfield and getting a performance where, as @thisGRAEME was saying in his enthusiastic summary on The Terrace on Monday, "he looked like he'd played 100 games for us" is presumably the sort of response that Robinson wants and the point he's been trying to make when he's been digging them out be it for fitness, performance levels etc.

On a slight tangent I noticed Ben Banks has done an interview with McCall and it got me thinking (again) about McCall's Academy era (Jack Leitch, Stuart Carswell, Craig Moore etc) vs where we are now and have been recently with Turnbull, Campbell, Scott, Maguire and Hastie before he fucked off (we'll never know about McKinstry and McAlear).

Rather than simply padding out a squad of Nicky Laws and Ojamaas with players from the Academy and being pleasantly surprised if they happen to be alright it feels to me like we're genuinely in a position that we're developing players who are a level above that which we could afford to buy in. Which is nice.

Edited October 9, 2019 by capt_oats

[Swello]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

The first team has been littered recently with players who have been varying degrees of stand out at u20s level but for various reasons haven't made much of a dent when they've been given an opportunity and it's come to the real stuff; #DT23, Luke Watt, Dylan Mackin, David Ferguson, Jack McMillan, Ross Maclean and most recently Adam Livingstone - it's a pretty lengthy list.

I think we've (only recently) learned what is really needed at 1st team level in our league as far as young players go - and that isn't merely "looks good in the '20's" which has clearly been the case in the past.  I think that game against Celtic where Livingstone was on and off again and Donnelly just wasn't up to it  probably had quite a big effect on Robinson's thinking regarding where a player needs to be physically.

The difference between players like Cadden, Scott and Hastie versus a lot of the boys on the list above is that they were clearly physically ready for men's football and there was definitely a difference in Maguire on Saturday compared to last season in that regard. An interesting example for me is Campbell - he's looked a brilliant player since he first appeared in the 1st team - but I would argue that this season is the first that he seems able to cope with playing 90 mins every week (plus internationals) and keep his performance levels consistent and I wonder if he would have been chucked in so early now...

[Casagolda]

There’s actually a decent interview with Diarmuid O'Carroll online today- 

Link

Talking about his role etc and all that, makes for a decent read.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Casagolda

[Swami]

Are we not basically St Etienne when that jolly fat chap was in charge, now? Churning out the future of football, only for them to f**k off after 3/4 of a good season? 

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, Swello said:

I think we've (only recently) learned what is really needed at 1st team level in our league as far as young players go - and that isn't merely "looks good in the '20's" which has clearly been the case in the past.  I think that game against Celtic where Livingstone was on and off again and Donnelly just wasn't up to it  probably had quite a big effect on Robinson's thinking regarding where a player needs to be physically.

The difference between players like Cadden, Scott and Hastie versus a lot of the boys on the list above is that they were clearly physically ready for men's football and there was definitely a difference in Maguire on Saturday compared to last season in that regard. An interesting example for me is Campbell - he's looked a brilliant player since he first appeared in the 1st team - but I would argue that this season is the first that he seems able to cope with playing 90 mins every week (plus internationals) and keep his performance levels consistent and I wonder if he would have been chucked in so early now...

100%.

Even in Campbell's case he came in, chased Accies about and then disappeared from the scene for a while. IIRC McFadden said - long after the fact - that it had been a conscious decision not to chuck him in to a relegation scrap. Which, I grant you, is different to what we're talking about in terms of preparedness and physical readiness.

It's a point of purpose I suppose, if the aim is simply to have a player to chuck on with 10-15 mins to go in a game you're 2 or 3 up in so you can tick a vague 'Youth Development' box in a team of broadly speaking "finished articles" then drafting in someone who's showing promise in the 20s is fine. Starting and playing 90 mins of first team football is an entirely different set of requirements and it's surely no coincidence that this is the context where you see genuine "development" week-in, week-out compared with an occasional run out after getting splinters on the bench.

If these are the players who are actually going to be fixtures in the first team then as much as it sounds a cliche the manager is going to have to be able to trust them implicitly to play at a level that will compete with other teams in the league for 90 mins. That's why the %s and fitness chat from Robinson post-match actually matters regardless of how harsh it may sound.

Edited October 9, 2019 by capt_oats

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

16 hours ago, BigTamMuller said:

A few days on and I'm still wondering which is Maguire's stronger foot! 

Especially in the first half before the game became a bit more end to end, I thought Maguire was every bit as good as Polworth in his play on the ball. Would be harsh on Allan Campbell, but if Maguire is Busquets then I look forward to the game we have Polworth and Turnbull in front of him as our Xavi/Iniesta!

You'd need to sign Ray Grant and Chris McStay to have Xavi and Iniesta my man

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I thought Turnbull = Ballack was the consensus?

[thisGRAEME]

Worth mentioning as well, I found it the other day re: Livingstone, Robinson being effusive in his praise following that dead rubber in Inverness compared to where we are now is an odd one eh?

Quote

We made changes second half, brought a young boy [Adam Livingstone] on and he made a couple of mistakes, but he'll get better and better.

"That's what we do at this club - we give young kids a chance, and unfortunately they make some mistakes, but he'll learn from that and he's one for the future.

 

[Busta Nut]

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but if we do manage to squeeze Turnbull and Polworth into the same team at anypoint I don't see it working and may be at the expense of Alan Campbell if they tried to.

[thisGRAEME]

5 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but if we do manage to squeeze Turnbull and Polworth into the same team at anypoint I don't see it working and may be at the expense of Alan Campbell if they tried to.

Long up top thriving off SHROOOBALLS.

Midfield of: Polworth, Campbell, Turnbull, Maguire and Sloth, moving on from a Midfield diamond to a Midfield pentagon where we never lose the ball, ever.

[Busta Nut]

7 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Long up top thriving off SHROOOBALLS.

Midfield of: Polworth, Campbell, Turnbull, Maguire and Sloth, moving on from a Midfield diamond to a Midfield pentagon where we never lose the ball, ever.

Brilliant idea. I do mind the USA played a 3-6-1 at one of the world cups years ago. Might be worth a go!

[CSmith]

12 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but if we do manage to squeeze Turnbull and Polworth into the same team at anypoint I don't see it working and may be at the expense of Alan Campbell if they tried to.

Agree with this to be quite honest. The reality with our midfield is that for the right balance I think we are picking one of Maguire or Donnelly, one of Campbell, O’Hara (and eventually) Sloth and one of Polworth or Turnbull. Not exactly the hottest of takes, but I’d assume we’ll be running with the midfield that won against St. Mirren for a good while.

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

To take the Spanish metaphors to their ludicrous extreme, I do actually think Turnbull's "natural" role is at False Nine. It was more apparent last season when Main and Sammon were lining up to miss chances, but I think a 4-6-0 with DT as the focal point would actually be quite an interesting experiment.

[Desp]

If anyone starts with the Trequartista patter then I'm out of here, lads. 

I'm looking at you, @Busta Nut

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, CSmith said:

Agree with this to be quite honest. The reality with our midfield is that for the right balance I think we are picking one of Maguire or Donnelly, one of Campbell, O’Hara (and eventually) Sloth and one of Polworth or Turnbull. Not exactly the hottest of takes, but I’d assume we’ll be running with the midfield that won against St. Mirren for a good while.

As fun as Motherwell redefining football as we know it with the Midfield Pentagon would be, that sounds pretty much accurate. The options we have in midfield pretty much fit specific roles. Semple will be one of those options for The Polworth Alternative at some point too I'd imagine.

FWIW: the Reserves game against Dunfermline started with a midfield 3 of O'Hara, Maguire, Sloth and Semple wide left. Maguire dropped to centre half at HT when Big Bevis was subbed off and we ran with O'Hara, Sloth, Semple as the 3 for the 2nd half (Semple scored in both halves).

I mentioned it before but given the competition for places in the central midfield roles if we're looking at getting Semple some first team minutes there's an argument that replicating what we've done with Scott and giving him a role out wide (which is where we've been using Ilic when he's come on) might work. Playing wide may not be a long term role (though Craigan had him playing there) but as it stands Polworth and Campbell have the two central positions alongside the holding mid fully on lock with O'Hara, Sloth and eventually Turnbull the alternates.

I noticed Ilic went off injured on Monday (and was playing in midfield).

I enjoyed reading that interview with O'Carroll @Casagolda linked to earlier largely because it's good to see some of the names that are being thrown around by the coaching staff. We knew Mo Ross was/is a fan of Dean Cornelius and David Devine from his MFC Podcast interview but it's encouraging to hear big Hussain was away with the first team with Cornelius for the St Johnstone game and Kyle Semple, Jack Brown, Adam Kettings getting shout outs is the sort of thing you want to see especially given the socials coverage has moved away from Reserves highlights and the more extensive interviews with Craigan.

The bite-sized coverage is far more digestible on the socials and I fully get that Ross may not want to stand giving 5 min interviews after every game but the trade off there is that the Academy/u20s content feels a bit more arms-length. Which isn't a dig, I understand they're trying to find a balance in terms of what works and I noticed the summary tweets the other day on the 30mins and hour mark.

I may be a niche audience but if the club were to stick the full matches of the u20s/Reserves up on the paywalled MFC channel I would absolutely watch them.

Edited October 9, 2019 by capt_oats

[Busta Nut]

37 minutes ago, Desp said:

If anyone starts with the Trequartista patter then I'm out of here, lads. 

I'm looking at you, @Busta Nut

If people are calling it a false 9 or a second striker, I am calling it the trequartista.

[Swami]

Can everyone stop talking about dropping Alan Campbell, please?