Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[weemac]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Tbh, with Maguire when you're talking about turning a nominal centre half into a midfielder as a concept the expectation is probably McGhee's less than successful experiment with Louis Laing. To have him strolling around the park like a Bellshill Busquets is quite frankly something that you love to see.

As @thisGRAEME says the extent to which players seem to be taking on board what's being asked of them is massively down to the level of coaching and presumably buy in from the players themselves. The comparison with Killie under Alessio is interesting as I remember McFadden talking after the Aberdeen LC quarter-final and he was highlighting the extent to which Robinson focussed on shape (in more positive terms than Broadfoot it should be said).

I initially read that as Bellshill bus queues which have had similar movement to previous holding midfielders.  Cough cough boab malcolm 

[Archie McSquackle]

Was at that as a young boiy - it was one of the few times I walked out of Old Tynecastle happy.

I was there also. You can see me in the crowd- I'm the one in the gaudy late-80's anorak [emoji6]

I had to laugh when they showed Cammy Duncan being carried off down the tunnel- none of your fancy stretchers, it's only a bit of concussion.

[Lobby Dossar]

4 hours ago, Casagolda said:

You'd argue he’s now 6th choice after Maguire’s performance on Saturday(7th if you include Turnbull). I don’t know what I was really expecting from Maguire but it certainly wasn’t that.

He showed an awareness, a composure and an ability to glide forward with the ball I never knew he had. 

About 4:35 on these highlights was the only instance of it I could find but it was something he done 3 or 4 times on Saturday to great effect to open up the game for us.  

Saw Maguire play there a few times for the U20s and he did not look out of place

IMO if he can get a couple of games under his belt he could just as Turnbull did about this time last year …… become a regular 1st team player due to his performances

[BigTamMuller]

A few days on and I'm still wondering which is Maguire's stronger foot! 

Especially in the first half before the game became a bit more end to end, I thought Maguire was every bit as good as Polworth in his play on the ball. Would be harsh on Allan Campbell, but if Maguire is Busquets then I look forward to the game we have Polworth and Turnbull in front of him as our Xavi/Iniesta!

[welldaft]

5 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

I'd be quite surprised if he left tbh. Unless it's a truly life-changing sum of money (is that likely from either or any potential suitors?), surely he's better placed to kick around with us, be great and then take the NI job when O'Neill leaves?

It was only a matter of time before rumours started. Probably lazy journalism but both Millwall and Barnsley are reportedly interested in Robinson.  Probably Sunderland also before long.....

To be fair despite the blip at the start of last season he has done very well with a limited budget. 

The longer we stay at top end of the table the more this will happen until an offer comes along he would be silly to refuse. Would love him to stay but if he does leave would prefer it was down south rather than Aberdeen or Hearts for example. 
 

 

[AndyRoss]

He was quite candid when talking about his ambitions on Sportsound last week, I'd hope his experience at Oldham has given him an insight into the risk of making a wrong move. Sunderland job seems like a poisoned chalice, though it would make the next season of 'Sunderland Till I Die' that bit more interesting. 

 

 

[capt_oats]

17 hours ago, Lobby Dossar said:

Saw Maguire play there a few times for the U20s and he did not look out of place

IMO if he can get a couple of games under his belt he could just as Turnbull did about this time last year …… become a regular 1st team player due to his performances

Aye, I mean that's pretty much the acid test isn't it?

The first team has been littered recently with players who have been varying degrees of stand out at u20s level but for various reasons haven't made much of a dent when they've been given an opportunity and it's come to the real stuff; #DT23, Luke Watt, Dylan Mackin, David Ferguson, Jack McMillan, Ross Maclean and most recently Adam Livingstone - it's a pretty lengthy list.

Arguably you could chuck Maguire's name in there when we've tried him at centre half since being part of a back 4 that shipped 5 (FIVE) to St Johnstone would probably have put a question mark over him.

Dropping him into midfield and getting a performance where, as @thisGRAEME was saying in his enthusiastic summary on The Terrace on Monday, "he looked like he'd played 100 games for us" is presumably the sort of response that Robinson wants and the point he's been trying to make when he's been digging them out be it for fitness, performance levels etc.

On a slight tangent I noticed Ben Banks has done an interview with McCall and it got me thinking (again) about McCall's Academy era (Jack Leitch, Stuart Carswell, Craig Moore etc) vs where we are now and have been recently with Turnbull, Campbell, Scott, Maguire and Hastie before he fucked off (we'll never know about McKinstry and McAlear).

Rather than simply padding out a squad of Nicky Laws and Ojamaas with players from the Academy and being pleasantly surprised if they happen to be alright it feels to me like we're genuinely in a position that we're developing players who are a level above that which we could afford to buy in. Which is nice.

Edited October 9, 2019 by capt_oats

[Swello]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

The first team has been littered recently with players who have been varying degrees of stand out at u20s level but for various reasons haven't made much of a dent when they've been given an opportunity and it's come to the real stuff; #DT23, Luke Watt, Dylan Mackin, David Ferguson, Jack McMillan, Ross Maclean and most recently Adam Livingstone - it's a pretty lengthy list.

I think we've (only recently) learned what is really needed at 1st team level in our league as far as young players go - and that isn't merely "looks good in the '20's" which has clearly been the case in the past.  I think that game against Celtic where Livingstone was on and off again and Donnelly just wasn't up to it  probably had quite a big effect on Robinson's thinking regarding where a player needs to be physically.

The difference between players like Cadden, Scott and Hastie versus a lot of the boys on the list above is that they were clearly physically ready for men's football and there was definitely a difference in Maguire on Saturday compared to last season in that regard. An interesting example for me is Campbell - he's looked a brilliant player since he first appeared in the 1st team - but I would argue that this season is the first that he seems able to cope with playing 90 mins every week (plus internationals) and keep his performance levels consistent and I wonder if he would have been chucked in so early now...

[Casagolda]

There’s actually a decent interview with Diarmuid O'Carroll online today- 

Link

Talking about his role etc and all that, makes for a decent read.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Casagolda

[Swami]

Are we not basically St Etienne when that jolly fat chap was in charge, now? Churning out the future of football, only for them to f**k off after 3/4 of a good season? 

[capt_oats]

3 hours ago, Swello said:

I think we've (only recently) learned what is really needed at 1st team level in our league as far as young players go - and that isn't merely "looks good in the '20's" which has clearly been the case in the past.  I think that game against Celtic where Livingstone was on and off again and Donnelly just wasn't up to it  probably had quite a big effect on Robinson's thinking regarding where a player needs to be physically.

The difference between players like Cadden, Scott and Hastie versus a lot of the boys on the list above is that they were clearly physically ready for men's football and there was definitely a difference in Maguire on Saturday compared to last season in that regard. An interesting example for me is Campbell - he's looked a brilliant player since he first appeared in the 1st team - but I would argue that this season is the first that he seems able to cope with playing 90 mins every week (plus internationals) and keep his performance levels consistent and I wonder if he would have been chucked in so early now...

100%.

Even in Campbell's case he came in, chased Accies about and then disappeared from the scene for a while. IIRC McFadden said - long after the fact - that it had been a conscious decision not to chuck him in to a relegation scrap. Which, I grant you, is different to what we're talking about in terms of preparedness and physical readiness.

It's a point of purpose I suppose, if the aim is simply to have a player to chuck on with 10-15 mins to go in a game you're 2 or 3 up in so you can tick a vague 'Youth Development' box in a team of broadly speaking "finished articles" then drafting in someone who's showing promise in the 20s is fine. Starting and playing 90 mins of first team football is an entirely different set of requirements and it's surely no coincidence that this is the context where you see genuine "development" week-in, week-out compared with an occasional run out after getting splinters on the bench.

If these are the players who are actually going to be fixtures in the first team then as much as it sounds a cliche the manager is going to have to be able to trust them implicitly to play at a level that will compete with other teams in the league for 90 mins. That's why the %s and fitness chat from Robinson post-match actually matters regardless of how harsh it may sound.

Edited October 9, 2019 by capt_oats

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

16 hours ago, BigTamMuller said:

A few days on and I'm still wondering which is Maguire's stronger foot! 

Especially in the first half before the game became a bit more end to end, I thought Maguire was every bit as good as Polworth in his play on the ball. Would be harsh on Allan Campbell, but if Maguire is Busquets then I look forward to the game we have Polworth and Turnbull in front of him as our Xavi/Iniesta!

You'd need to sign Ray Grant and Chris McStay to have Xavi and Iniesta my man

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I thought Turnbull = Ballack was the consensus?

[thisGRAEME]

Worth mentioning as well, I found it the other day re: Livingstone, Robinson being effusive in his praise following that dead rubber in Inverness compared to where we are now is an odd one eh?

Quote

We made changes second half, brought a young boy [Adam Livingstone] on and he made a couple of mistakes, but he'll get better and better.

"That's what we do at this club - we give young kids a chance, and unfortunately they make some mistakes, but he'll learn from that and he's one for the future.

 

[Busta Nut]

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but if we do manage to squeeze Turnbull and Polworth into the same team at anypoint I don't see it working and may be at the expense of Alan Campbell if they tried to.

[thisGRAEME]

5 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but if we do manage to squeeze Turnbull and Polworth into the same team at anypoint I don't see it working and may be at the expense of Alan Campbell if they tried to.

Long up top thriving off SHROOOBALLS.

Midfield of: Polworth, Campbell, Turnbull, Maguire and Sloth, moving on from a Midfield diamond to a Midfield pentagon where we never lose the ball, ever.

[Busta Nut]

7 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Long up top thriving off SHROOOBALLS.

Midfield of: Polworth, Campbell, Turnbull, Maguire and Sloth, moving on from a Midfield diamond to a Midfield pentagon where we never lose the ball, ever.

Brilliant idea. I do mind the USA played a 3-6-1 at one of the world cups years ago. Might be worth a go!

[CSmith]

12 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but if we do manage to squeeze Turnbull and Polworth into the same team at anypoint I don't see it working and may be at the expense of Alan Campbell if they tried to.

Agree with this to be quite honest. The reality with our midfield is that for the right balance I think we are picking one of Maguire or Donnelly, one of Campbell, O’Hara (and eventually) Sloth and one of Polworth or Turnbull. Not exactly the hottest of takes, but I’d assume we’ll be running with the midfield that won against St. Mirren for a good while.

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

To take the Spanish metaphors to their ludicrous extreme, I do actually think Turnbull's "natural" role is at False Nine. It was more apparent last season when Main and Sammon were lining up to miss chances, but I think a 4-6-0 with DT as the focal point would actually be quite an interesting experiment.

[Desp]

If anyone starts with the Trequartista patter then I'm out of here, lads. 

I'm looking at you, @Busta Nut