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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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9 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

What? No, I'd rather we didn't promote betting companies  :lol:

To be fair, I'm not completely raging about this. We've ran about with bookies and payday loans companies on our shirts for years now, and to an extent any company with enough spare money to chuck at a Scottish football team is probably involved in something shady. Credit to the club for getting a good deal but I'd personally prefer we weren't involved in this sort of thing.

See my natural instincts are similar to yours. I am not a big fan of social media and feel it is having a detrimental effect on wider society and I am certainly not a big fan of the way betting companies operate. Therefore a deal such as this isn't really for me.

However, I do understand as a club we have got to live in the world that exists and not one of an idealistic supporter like myself. I also don't want to come across as a miserable b*****d deriding a deal that the club has worked extremely hard on and is seemingly very beneficial to us in the current climate. In short, i'll hold my nose and congratulate people at the club on pulling off a bit of coup.      

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I will be honest I know there are negatives to things like gambling and alcohol but I don't really care about who sponsors us.  The club usually do their bit for the opposite side of the coin.

Hypocritical? Maybe.

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56 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Leaves a bad taste in the mouth that we're taking cash from betting companies at the same time as punting suicide prevention stuff tbh. 

This is nothing new we've been doing the same for the past couple of seasons

Fair play to the club for landing the deal #Save our Shirts

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That's Scott Burns in the Record and Scott Mullen for the BBC both reporting on the Cadden/Columbus/Oxford shafting.

Mullen's bit is below:

Quote

Motherwell are in talks with Major League Soccer as they face losing out on 280,000 euros for Columbus Crew-bound winger Chris Cadden due to a compensation loophole.

Cadden, 22, is poised to join the Ohio club after his Well contract ended.

But as sides in the MLS have not yet been categorised yet for training fees, all were given a default four rating.

This means Columbus, who had a reported 2018 revenue of $28m, will avoid any compensation costs for Cadden.

Motherwell are in negotiations with US Soccer, Columbus and the MLS seeking a resolution.

Prior to November this year, the top league in the United States did not recognise training compensation or solidarity payments.

Oxford United had previously enquired about the Scotland international, who had been at the Scottish Premiership side since he was nine years old.

It had been reported he will go to the League One club on loan after his deal to Columbus, who have requested his international clearance certificate from Motherwell and the Scottish FA, is confirmed.

IIRC there were whispers about Hastie being lined up for something similar with Atlanta United and Aberdeen before Rangers decided they weren't walking away from that deal after all.

Ultimately he's no longer a Motherwell player and he's free to sign with whomever he likes but given the sort of fee that would have been involved in taking him to a Cat II or Cat III club I'm actually quite surprised there doesn't seem to have been more interest in Cadden. £250k - £500k is pretty much the standard ballpark figure that your Hull and Barnsley type clubs seem to offer when they're enquiring about players up here.

Edited by capt_oats
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I'm honestly not that surprised about the lack of interest in Cadden. I mean, I do really like him and whilst he's had little bursts of time where you've thought he might really kick on, he just...well, never really did. Then the unfortunate timing of his injury basically killing any chance of that "end of contract form" that seems to often appear, I've thought for a while he was more likely to appear at an exit trial as oppposed to a compensation tribunal.

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12 minutes ago, Al B said:

I'm honestly not that surprised about the lack of interest in Cadden. I mean, I do really like him and whilst he's had little bursts of time where you've thought he might really kick on, he just...well, never really did. Then the unfortunate timing of his injury basically killing any chance of that "end of contract form" that seems to often appear, I've thought for a while he was more likely to appear at an exit trial as oppposed to a compensation tribunal.

I think I'm with you on this one.  For a player who hasn't got a killer pass, can't tackle and doesn't score many goals because his shooting is quite bad, I'm still a fan of his.

He's definitely got something (I don't think we ever found out what it was, and I suspect Cadden himself hasn't either) but there's definitely a player in there.  He needs to find a position and work really hard at it though, as getting moved around the team in the last 18 months at Motherwell didn't help him.

The player has to look after no.1, but it's disappointing to learn about the loophole which, once again, shafts the wee teams.  That needs closed, but I suspect protecting clubs like Motherwell is way down the list of priorities for UEFA and FIFA. 

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10 minutes ago, Al B said:

I'm honestly not that surprised about the lack of interest in Cadden. I mean, I do really like him and whilst he's had little bursts of time where you've thought he might really kick on, he just...well, never really did. Then the unfortunate timing of his injury basically killing any chance of that "end of contract form" that seems to often appear, I've thought for a while he was more likely to appear at an exit trial as opposed to a compensation tribunal.

Aye. I mean, I broadly agree with that.

Let's say we'd retained all our players from last season, would Cadden have started ahead of Hastie or Ariyibi? Probably not. Ahead of Turnbull and Campbell? Definitely not. The only real shout IMO would have been keeping Tait at LB and starting him at RB.

That said you look at League 1 and I'd have thought he'd have been a shout for a Burton, Peterborough, Portsmouth, Ipswich type at £250k. As it stands Oxford, Doncaster, Sunderland are his lot and it would seem that bar Oxford who apparently originally agreed compensation...none of them want to pay the money.

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I think the club are right to protect their interests and in doing so hopefully address a loophole that is being exploited. 

One wonders how Oxford were reputedly prepared to pay compensation to somehow end up in a loan deal with Columbus crew in the MLS. I mean they may have close relations but stinks to high heaven. And this could be exploited more and more. 

But what if any clout do UEFA hold over MLS, very little I would assume. 

This is probably not getting attention it normally would, because we seem to be in a good place at the moment in terms of money coming in through PP sponsorship and youth player sales in McAlear (tbc) and McKinstry with Hastie to add in to mix. 

I like most have a soft spot for Cadden and why not. He came through the system showed great promise and but for a number of injuries and loyalty to Motherwell could have got a much better and more lucrative move.  I wish him all the best and if we lose out financially then hopefully we will make it up elsewhere. 

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Guest Pampered Adolescent

Regarding Cadden: just as we are free to obtain sponsorship from betting companies, 'aparrently' little or nothing from the yank mob.

Thems are the rules.

Simples!

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2 hours ago, Pampered Adolescent said:

That's fine. For those that know me here, a data set of two....  I'm not a particularly 'nice' person, with loads of faults.

I'd rather the "amateurs' running Motherwell FC do their best for the club.

Cheers

PA

Do you get many troll cabals in your part of Asia?

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Guest Pampered Adolescent
Just now, Al B said:

Mods, please? Instant ban.

Instant voluntary ban. In the words of Arnie: I won't be back.

Tara/xie xie/ whatever.

'Clowns'.

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Lad's we've been called clowns by someone who's gamertag is Tight M.inge Avenger.

Not entirely sure whether to feel good or bad about it. Will reflect and revert.

Edit: classic P&B autocorrect kicked in 😂

Edited by Al B
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12 minutes ago, Pampered Adolescent said:

Regarding Cadden: just as we are free to obtain sponsorship from betting companies, 'aparrently' little or nothing from the yank mob.

Thems are the rules.

Simples!

Do you drive a taxi mate?

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2 hours ago, Desp said:

I think I'm with you on this one.  For a player who hasn't got a killer pass, can't tackle and doesn't score many goals because his shooting is quite bad, I'm still a fan of his.

He's definitely got something (I don't think we ever found out what it was, and I suspect Cadden himself hasn't either) but there's definitely a player in there.  He needs to find a position and work really hard at it though, as getting moved around the team in the last 18 months at Motherwell didn't help him.

The player has to look after no.1, but it's disappointing to learn about the loophole which, once again, shafts the wee teams.  That needs closed, but I suspect protecting clubs like Motherwell is way down the list of priorities for UEFA and FIFA. 

I wish these loopholes weren't there i am sure we all do however I don't believe this loophole affects only Motherwell, it sounds as though it would be the case for any club who was due compensation for a player going to the MLS. 

These loopholes also work in the favour of the teams in our league. I don't think it's worked directly in our favour as such however recent examples i can think of are Joe Aribo to rangers and Moussa Dembele to Celtic in which Charlton and Fulham got absolute buttons in comparison to what they would have got if they moved to teams in England.  

There shouldn't be loopholes in the first place but i'd imagine there is some there that we could take advantage of as well.

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1 hour ago, Neil86 said:

I wish these loopholes weren't there i am sure we all do however I don't believe this loophole affects only Motherwell, it sounds as though it would be the case for any club who was due compensation for a player going to the MLS. 

These loopholes also work in the favour of the teams in our league. I don't think it's worked directly in our favour as such however recent examples i can think of are Joe Aribo to rangers and Moussa Dembele to Celtic in which Charlton and Fulham got absolute buttons in comparison to what they would have got if they moved to teams in England.  

There shouldn't be loopholes in the first place but i'd imagine there is some there that we could take advantage of as well.

Tbh, it's the loan to Oxford that's the "problem" so to speak.

On the face of it that's not a loophole, it's a workaround out of having to pay €300k and completely undermines the principle of training compensation. I think it was @Jim McLean's Ghost who said it the other day, the potential is the equivalent of laundering players. They sign for an MLS side for a nominal amount and get a kickback from the signing club when they sign the player 6 months down the line for an amount that could easily still be significantly less than they'd have had to pay Motherwell (or whichever club trained the player).

That's if it plays out like that.

Normally the amounts in training comp are such that it's probably not worth the hassle. I mean jumping through hoops for the sake of a couple of hundred grand probably isn't worth the effort for say, Championship sides. Leeds wrote us a cheque for £500k for Erwin, Brighton £210k for Ben Hall.

If he was just signing with Columbus Crew and getting on with his career in the MLS I think most would suck it up. It's fair to say we've got our money's worth out of Cadden as a player. Hearts lost out on compensation when Sam Nicholson moved to Minnesota a couple of years ago although at that point MLS didn't acknowledge training compensation. The fact that they do now but simply haven't categorised the clubs is an issue.

As it stands MLS is looking to apply training comp and solidarity payments but going by Mullen's article they categorise LA Galaxy (Zlatan and all) as being 2 categories below Motherwell because they've grouped them all as Category IV clubs as a default.

The story seems to be that Columbus don't have space in their "roster" for another "international" player so are looking to "acquire" him and seeing as Oxford seem to be utterly desperate in trying to sign players, they're happy to take him on a loan. I mean, why wouldn't they? They're saving €300k and they don't need to tie the player down on a long term contract to protect their investment.

Edit to add: in the interests of balance, it's entirely possible that Columbus have offered him a significantly better package than Oxford and that's the choice he's made with the Oxford loan being a legit short-term solution to Columbus not being able to register him to their squad.

Edited by capt_oats
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6 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

No slight intended, I wish him well, in whatever: "We manage and control the largest privately funded Optical Core network in the UK with extensive on-net Metro reach." 

Means.

From my dealings with them they appear to be a BT Business Broadband reseller 

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