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Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons


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23 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Finding genuine quality in the final third was always going to be the hardest part of this summer. Seems like a few things have fallen through as well in the last few weeks, maybe in relation to the Turnbull deal?

I wondered about this as well. Going by the noises Burrows was making when he was talking about the transformational nature of the deal for the club the gist seemed to be that the bulk of the money would be earmarked for clearing what's left of the debt, infrastructure and legacy projects.

It would have been a surprise if Robinson wouldn't have seen a modest increase in budget though.

Reading Gordon Waddell's piece re: Turnbull in the Sunday Mail today then given how improbable it seems that the medical would have thrown up any issue given his (lack of) injury history it raises the question how far down the line we were with deals that were contingent on the Turnbull deal going through and how many:

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By all accounts he hasn’t darkened the door of the physio’s room at Fir Park in four years and even then it was only to get a dead leg seen to.

He didn’t miss a single day’s training in the entirety of last season.

In the actual physical examination he did with Celtic, testing the strength of his joints, he was completely asymptomatic. There wasn’t a single sign of any weakness.

And contrary to reports, he didn’t even do a medical with Norwich, far less fail one.

Only a precautionary CT scan showed the problem with his cartilage that neither he, his club, his doc, his folks, his lawyer nor anyone else knew a damn thing about.

The thing is, he could play another 15 years and not notice it, not feel a thing.

Or he could kick a ball in the back garden this afternoon, it could go and right there, it would be beyond repair.

That’s how freakish, how extreme, the whole scenario is.

We were rumoured to have been announcing someone "if all goes well" on the Thursday, then that was shifted to the Friday (again, if all goes well), then by the Saturday it was "taking a wee bit longer than expected"...now it seems to have fallen through and it was "not to be". I feel a bit of a dick trawling through Flow's Tweets there but it's more illustrative of timeline than "WhY haVen'T We SigNed SoMEone?!?!". 

I guess there's a chance it was coincidence this non-announcement matched the timeline while DT was pitching up at Parkhead with Lennon on SSN saying he expected him to sign that day before being dragged from pillar to post having specialists poking at his knee.

FWIW: looking at where we are we've released/lost 13 first team players (including Cadden) and recruited 6. Along with releasing 7 u20s and replacing them with 7 Academy players on their first pro deals.

I'd like to think that we'd still have budget to play with given the number we've got off the books eg: Main's wage, the money that would be tied up in Cadden's contract offer (that we can't pull until he actually signs for someone else), whatever we were chipping in for Sammon and McCormack but you'd imagine we may need to pivot our recruitment strategy again.

Also, "DAVID TURNBULL BREAKS SOCIAL MEDIA SILENCE WITH TWEET" (in all seriousness it's interesting he seems to be giving Waddell's article a co-sign).

 

Edited by capt_oats
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7 minutes ago, ropy said:

Don’t have an issue with Main’s comments, did a job.

I think what he says is fair enough as it's what I saw happening - he played decently as a team player IMO but offered zero goal threat. That said even as a lone striker, we had the right to expect more goals from him (just as we would based on whoever we sign this time) - the team made hunners of chances after New Year compared to the first half of the season (where he could legitimately use the "shite service" excuse).

On the lack of signings recently, I'd imagine there are two things going on - one is that there never seems to be much happening in parallel at Fir Park - with so few actual people, events understandably tend to overtake planned stuff and to be fair, the last couple of weeks has been quite the event....Secondly - and more worryingly I suppose - we have probably missed out on some of our top targets. Maybe some stuff was contingent on the Turnbull deal going through, maybe not but the question is, given that we are all desperate to see a quality player leading the line this season, how far down our list are we now?

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1 hour ago, Swello said:

On the lack of signings recently, I'd imagine there are two things going on - one is that there never seems to be much happening in parallel at Fir Park - with so few actual people, events understandably tend to overtake planned stuff and to be fair, the last couple of weeks has been quite the event....Secondly - and more worryingly I suppose - we have probably missed out on some of our top targets. Maybe some stuff was contingent on the Turnbull deal going through, maybe not but the question is, given that we are all desperate to see a quality player leading the line this season, how far down our list are we now?

Aye.

The David Turnbull Saga is flogging a dead horse and definitely needs a line drawn under it but going back to Burrows comments on June 12 via Twitter after the initial short statement that the bid had been accepted: "We’ve been working on this almost exclusively for weeks and weeks.".

Not a criticism as the ultimate result of the whole shitshow was out of both Motherwell and Turnbull's hands but let's say that's a factual statement with the minimum of hyperbole, there's a real chance that the best part of a full month working on the deal and then waiting to find out what the f**k was going on. Chris Long has been the only signing we've made during that period (10th June)  and the groundwork for that would probably have been done in advance.

I think the question I have is whether we had top targets for our current budget and top targets for the Turnbull Inflated Budget the upshot there could be that we've missed out on the first tier while the 2nd group are now unattainable. I've absolutely zero doubt we have plenty "irons in the fire" but we've not been able to action them without clarification one way or another.

Turning that frown upside down, I think I'm correct in saying that generally speaking English based players contracts expire at the end of June rather than the end of May and I suppose there's a key point in so much as someone like Gboly is still under contract at Forest (who have just had a managerial change to boot) and it's generally been acknowledged that if he does sign up then it would be later in the window regardless.

It's entirely possible that's going to remain true of "quality" players if we're looking to add them. I guess it also depends on exactly how many players we're looking to add.

It's also notable that while Cadden clearly has options he doesn't seem to have made a decision on that score either. I'd guess that there's a difference in category of club between Oxford and Sunderland (if those are his choices) which in turn would impact on potential compensation.

Edited by capt_oats
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Don't worry, you will have your turn soon enough. 


In all seriousness, I don’t like interviews like that. I didn’t watch him enough to comment on the validity of what he’s saying but I have a pet peeve about people not taking responsibility for their own performances.
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28 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Aye.

The David Turnbull Saga is flogging a dead horse and definitely needs a line drawn under it but going back to Burrows comments on June 12 via Twitter after the initial short statement that the bid had been accepted: "We’ve been working on this almost exclusively for weeks and weeks.".

Not a criticism as the ultimate result of the whole shitshow was out of both Motherwell and Turnbull's hands but let's say that's a factual statement with the minimum of hyperbole, there's a real chance that the best part of a full month working on the deal and then waiting to find out what the f**k was going on. Chris Long has been the only signing we've made during that period (10th June)  and the groundwork for that would probably have been done in advance.

I think the question I have is whether we had top targets for our current budget and top targets for the Turnbull Inflated Budget the upshot there could be that we've missed out on the first tier while the 2nd group are now unattainable. I've absolutely zero doubt we have plenty "irons in the fire" but we've not been able to action them without clarification one way or another.

Turning that frown upside down, I think I'm correct in saying that generally speaking English based players contracts expire at the end of June rather than the end of May and I suppose there's a key point in so much as someone like Gboly is still under contract at Forest (who have just had a managerial change to boot) and it's generally been acknowledged that if he does sign up then it would be later in the window regardless.

It's entirely possible that's going to remain true of "quality" players if we're looking to add them. I guess it also depends on exactly how many players we're looking to add.

It's also notable that while Cadden clearly has options he doesn't seem to have made a decision on that score either. I'd guess that there's a difference in category of club between Oxford and Sunderland (if those are his choices) which in turn would impact on potential compensation.

Down in Oxford this weekend and the local rag has Cadden linked with unnamed MLS clubs which would definitely have an impact on potential compensation 

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Robinson said: “We need wide players. We’ve lost out on three that we thought we had over the line which is disappointing.

So eh, probably on to plan D & E right about now?

I know they might say otherwise, however I’m sure some of that would be tied into the Turnbull deal going through. If Cadden does go stateside then that’ll be another kick in the balls for the club- that’ll be about 3.5m the club thought they were getting this summer disappearing in the space of the week. 

Edited by Casagolda
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33 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

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So eh, probably on to plan D & E right about now?

I know they might say otherwise, however I’m sure some of that would be tied into the Turnbull deal going through. If Cadden does go stateside then that’ll be another kick in the balls for the club- that’ll be about 3.5m the club thought they were getting this summer disappearing in the space of the week. 

So if Cadden goes to the US we get no compensation ? That would be a kick in the haw maws.

Lets hope Sunderland is more than a rumour. 

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10 minutes ago, welldaft said:

So if Cadden goes to the US we get no compensation ? That would be a kick in the haw maws.

Lets hope Sunderland is more than a rumour. 

Maybe. Maybe not.

Sam Nicholson moved from Hearts to Minnesota in 2017 and got no compensation but it looks like MLS has got on board with the FIFA compensation thing as of April 18 2019: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/04/18/faqs-about-training-compensation-and-solidarity-payments

Full disclosure I've not read the full article so don't know if it's just MLS specific but if it's in line with FIFA guidelines as suggested in the first couple of paragraphs then I can't see that they could pick and choose.

Actually:

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Please note that currently MLS Clubs do not have designated categories. As the FIFA Regulations contemplate the FIFA member associations designating such categories, MLS will cooperate with U.S. Soccer and Canada Soccer to understand which category MLS Clubs would occupy within each federation. FIFA Regulations do not prohibit a development academy from waiving its right to receive Training Compensation, or modifying the amount received, in the course of negotiations with the club seeking to acquire the player.

 

Edited by capt_oats
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I still think we lack a bit of a killer touch in wide areas- we’re aware we need to bring two wide players in to give us that little bit of pace and energy in the final third.

Our back four looks solid, I think our midfield’s good, we’ve got Chris Long in, Danny Johnson and young James Scott all centre forwards but we definitely need people in wide areas.

It won’t be easy on our budget and everyone in the bottom half of the league is in the same market.

We’re looking to do some business next week- hopefully we get one in, possibly two, we’ll see what Monday/Tuesday brings.

Some more comments from Robinson.

Seems like wingers are his priority and that Scott/Johnson are both in his immediate plans. Surely we’ll see another striker come in though?

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Is Long an out and out striker?  If so, I'd imagine he'll settle for the three players mentioned.  Long to start, Scott as back-up and Johnson to be there if needed. 

A couple of wingers are definitely needed though.  #AnnounceGboly

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10 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Some more comments from Robinson.

Seems like wingers are his priority and that Scott/Johnson are both in his immediate plans. Surely we’ll see another striker come in though?

 

8 hours ago, Desp said:

Is Long an out and out striker?  If so, I'd imagine he'll settle for the three players mentioned.  Long to start, Scott as back-up and Johnson to be there if needed. 

A couple of wingers are definitely needed though.  #AnnounceGboly

I think Long's more a 'forward' than the type of #9 most were expecting ie: a target man to hold the ball up.

I find Robinson increasingly difficult to second guess tbh. You'd think another striker would come in though equally in a purely numbers sense you can see why wide players are his priority as we've really only got Hylton at the moment. I get that we seem to be hanging on for Gboly but there's very little depth in wide areas. In fact, there's none to speak of. I don't think we even have any wingers at u20s level.

Looking at the highlights from the other day Polworth seemed to be wide right, I know he's played there for ICT before but the general consensus seems to be you get more out of him centrally.

As @Desp says I'd guess the feeling is that we've got numbers for the #9 role at the moment (if maybe not the quality) in Long, Scott and Johnson and he may want to give the latter two a decent crack at things before making a decision.

I'm paraphrasing a bit but I seem to remember Robinson saying over the past few windows that we hold a bit of budget back in case anything good comes up later in the window. I'd think players who are still contracted or are likely to be available on loan probably won't be available until then.

Edit: Incidentally that's the Official site started refreshing the squad lists: Maguire, Livingstone and Scott all promoted to the First Team group. 

Edited by capt_oats
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I still think we're short of a central midfielder as well.  We're going into the new season missing Gorrin, McHugh, Cadden and Turnbull who all were able to play in there.  Only Polworth that's come in.  Whether Robinson sees Donnelly as a long term replacement for Gorrin remains to be seen. 

In the short term, until we get a couple of wingers in (which, as the Capt says could be later in the window when the English clubs firm up their squads and allow a few out on frees/loan) then the back three becomes an option...

'Keeper - Carson or Gillespie

Back Three - Gallagher, Hartley, Dunne

Wing-Backs - Tait & Carroll or Grimshaw & Tait

Midfield Three - Campbell, Donnelly, Polworth

Front Two - Long Johnson (please God, let this happen!)

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14 minutes ago, Desp said:

I still think we're short of a central midfielder as well.  We're going into the new season missing Gorrin, McHugh, Cadden and Turnbull who all were able to play in there.  Only Polworth that's come in.  Whether Robinson sees Donnelly as a long term replacement for Gorrin remains to be seen. 

In the short term, until we get a couple of wingers in (which, as the Capt says could be later in the window when the English clubs firm up their squads and allow a few out on frees/loan) then the back three becomes an option...

'Keeper - Carson or Gillespie

Back Three - Gallagher, Hartley, Dunne

Wing-Backs - Tait & Carroll or Grimshaw & Tait

Midfield Three - Campbell, Donnelly, Polworth

Front Two - Long Johnson (please God, let this happen!)

You forgot Casper Sloth.

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7 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

You forgot Casper Sloth.

So I did!  How could I forget that wee beautiful b*****d?  We could maybe get away without a midfielder if Turnbull is closer to the three month recovery as opposed to a six month recovery. 

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