Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Guts]

4 minutes ago, Swello said:

Celtic's playbook for getting Scottish players probably needs an update. The old tabloid diplomacy doesn't work as well as it did - although I thought using *Joe Miller*, a player who moved to Celtic before Turnbull was born was particularly funny. 

Celtic of course could have afforded what Norwich will pay in wages and transfer fees but they can't compete with what Norwich can offer from a development point of view -  and everything that he gets at Norwich will come without the baggage of hordes of 50 year old roasters wondering which school he went to...

Definetly, although I don't think Celtic were being cheap not giving the boy 20K or whatever it was, they simply couldn't because the other players at that age don't get that. English clubs can gamble on young players with money like that without breaking sweat.  It is an excellent move for him, his agent has played a blinder.

Celtic could have come out of this ok if they hadn't made total fools of themselves by spitting the dummy out, when the agent asked for  what has been proven to be attainable wages. Then to top it off they seem to have got a whiff of this Norwich bid and chose to embarrass themselves further by acting like they were pulling out, f*ck sake.

 

[Guts]

4 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Between an obviously ridiculous managerial appointment, making a complete mess of their attempt to sign their number one transfer target for the second summer running and the resultant cranial detachment of fans, players, staff and friendly journalists alike, Celtic have really never looked so much like Rangers since the latter died.

I hope he wasn't our number one target. Defence is a riot.

[DukDukGoose]

3 minutes ago, Guts said:

Definetly, although I don't think Celtic were being cheap not giving the boy 20K or whatever it was, they simply couldn't because the other players at that age don't get that. English clubs can gamble on young players with money like that without breaking sweat.  It is an excellent move for him, his agent has played a blinder.

Celtic could have come out of this ok if they hadn't made total fools of themselves by spitting the dummy out, when the agent asked for  what has been proven to be attainable wages. Then to top it off they seem to have got a whiff of this Norwich bid and chose to embarrass themselves further by acting like they were pulling out, f*ck sake.

 

The issue is not the £20k he allegedly asked for. It's the fact he wanted more game time and on a wage which would be fair in comparison to his peers. If he is offered £7k to play for Celtic then he's sat on a bench. Once he breaks through, he's in a poor bargaining position because Celtic would have no appetite to triple his wage.

He'll go to Norwich with a clear plan on what his development will be and on a decent wage. He's made the right decision.

[santheman]

If there's one thing to come out of this it's that "magnificent" must be one of the most underused words in the English language and efforts must be made to promote it's use in everyday conversations

[nsr]

"Magnificent" is to Celtic what "concomitant" is to Sevco.

[Desp]

Amazing that the Celtic fan, in trying to be relatively calm and sensible about it all, still peddles the "demands £20k a week" line that was in the Daily Record or some other likeminded rag...

It was never about the money.  Ever.  Yet that'll be the line Celtic and the media will cling onto to make Celtic still seem like a "big club".

[Swello]

The opening paragraph of the main piece on the Sun is a joy to behold

Quote

CELTIC have told David Turnbull he can FORGET joining them.

Brassed-off Hoops bosses dramatically pulled the plug on the £3 million deal just as it appeared done and dusted.

This is pure Pravda stuff - the line straight from the politburo. Interesting to see how many Celtic supporters swallow it. 

[ropy]

To be fair  Celtic Football Club have been used here, it is no wonder they are hurting, they made a fair offer, but they are not the draw they used to be, the agent has kept them talking while stoking up interest in the South, now they have been cast aside and are trying to regain some pride.  I feel sorry for them.

[buddie06smfc]

Good on Turnbull knocking back Celtic. Being an absolute munter of a boy he won’t get many opportunities to knock back in his personal life he should take every opportunity in his professional life.

[Yoshi-91]

"Will you go out with me?"

No

"Will you go out with me?!"

I said no

"I didn't really fancy her anyway"

[boozyBJ]

Was coming to terms with the fact Turnbull would probably be  playing for Celtic this coming season, consoling myself with at least we're getting a good fee for him, so with the news that we've accepted a better offer from Norwich and I won't have to watch David score against us this season, I can fully get on board with this transfer if it happens..

If he gets the game time he's looking for he'll blossom in the Premiership and I'm sure the thought of going to places like Anfield and the Eitihad will be a more mouth watering prospect than New Douglas or St Mirren Parks, no offence.

Also, after nearly a week of bravado and general smugness from the Celtic fans in my office, they are strangely quiet this morning.............

[capt_oats]

41 minutes ago, Guts said:

Definetly, although I don't think Celtic were being cheap not giving the boy 20K or whatever it was, they simply couldn't because the other players at that age don't get that. English clubs can gamble on young players with money like that without breaking sweat.  It is an excellent move for him, his agent has played a blinder.

Celtic could have come out of this ok if they hadn't made total fools of themselves by spitting the dummy out, when the agent asked for  what has been proven to be attainable wages. Then to top it off they seem to have got a whiff of this Norwich bid and chose to embarrass themselves further by acting like they were pulling out, f*ck sake.

I think the issue I'd have is why Celtic were trying to sign him in the first place?

I don't know the boy but anything I've read from him suggests he's a switched on type and it's been fairly common knowledge that his preference in terms of his next move has always been down south. He admitted himself that there was interest back in January which he kb'd because he felt he needed more games at Motherwell.

Again, I don't know him but I'd have thought the first question he'd ask Celtic after looking at a squad with McGregor, Brown, Christie, Rogic, Ntcham, Bitton, Kouassi, Mulumbu, Benyu and even Henderson wouldn't be "Where do I sign?" it would be "when do I play?". The £20k (if that's what it was) was an acid test (and entirely misses the point anyway).

The whole thing just feels like he was going to be a vanity signing in an attempt to make up for McGinn going to Villa last season. Writers YPOTY winner, PFA YPOTY nominee...cool sign him up. It'll be a good look.

As @Merkland Red says if he's in a £7k p/w bracket it's easy enough for Celtic to just park him on the bench or punt him out on loan eg: Ciftci, Scott Allan et al. Put him on a par with players who are starting and it's a different proposition.

The money side of things was, I'd guess, just a helpful negotiating tool/stalling tactic. It completely blindsided Celtic, hence them pissing themselves in public for attention.

The general narrative seems to have been that Celtic wanted to get a deal done early to "head off" interest from England.

Again, why would he commit to a long term deal he wasn't sold on when there was the chance offers from England could come up. So Celtic spent literally weeks chasing a player, in an area of the park they're pretty well stocked, who didn't actually have that much interest in signing for them but have ended up being useful in helping get a move he does want.

I've seen loads of indignant "HE'LL NOT GET IN THE NORWICH FIRST TEAM...THAT PROVES IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY" type rage-posts on Celtic Twitter but as I mentioned in a post last night quoting an interview with Norwich's sporting director their entire model is based on the development of young players. If it's the case that they've had a bid accepted then from the outside looking in Turnbull couldn't have picked a better club, particularly when you frame it against Scott Brown's press conference. 

It's absolutely wild how many Celtic Da's genuinely can't work out Turnbull's position and how it's been played out. They're absolute marks.

Edited June 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[DukDukGoose]

7 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I think the issue I'd have is why Celtic were trying to sign him in the first place?

I don't know the boy but anything I've read from him suggests he's a switched on type and it's been fairly common knowledge that his preference in terms of his next move has always been down south. He admitted himself that there was interest back in January which he kb'd because he felt he needed more games at Motherwell.

Again, I don't know him but I'd have thought the first question he'd ask Celtic after looking at a squad with McGregor, Brown, Christie, Rogic, Ntcham, Bitton, Kouassi, Mulumbu, Benyu and even Henderson wouldn't be "Where do I sign?" it would be "when do I play?". The £20k (if that's what it was) was an acid test (and entirely misses the point anyway).

The whole thing just feels like he was going to be a vanity signing in an attempt to make up for McGinn going to Villa last season. Writers YPOTY winner, PFA YPOTY nominee...cool sign him up. It'll be a good look.

As @Merkland Red says if he's in a £7k p/w bracket it's easy enough for Celtic to just park him on the bench or punt him out on loan eg: Ciftci, Scott Allan et al. Put him on a par with players who are starting and it's a different proposition.

The money side of things was, I'd guess, just a helpful negotiating tool/stalling tactic. It completely blindsided Celtic, hence them pissing themselves in public for attention.

The general narrative seems to have been that Celtic wanted to get a deal done early to "head off" interest from England.

Again, why would he commit to a long term deal he wasn't sold on when there was the chance offers from England could come up. So Celtic spent literally weeks chasing a player, in an area of the park they're pretty well stocked, who didn't actually have that much interest in signing for them but have ended up being useful in helping get a move he does want.

I've seen loads of indignant "HE'LL NOT GET IN THE NORWICH FIRST TEAM...THAT PROVES IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY" type rage-posts on Celtic Twitter but as I mentioned in a post last night quoting an interview with Norwich's sporting director their entire model is based on the development of young players. If it's the case that they've had a bid accepted then from the outside looking in Turnbull couldn't have picked a better club, particularly when you frame it against Scott Brown's press conference. 

It's absolutely wild how many Celtic Da's genuinely can't work out Turnbull's position and how it's been played out. They're absolute marks.

He's likely not getting near the Norwich first XI, but Norwich will already have an idea of teams in mind for him to be loaned to. They may decide half a season in their 23's would be best for him. There will be a clear path to first team football for the lad though.

[Guts]

37 minutes ago, Desp said:

Amazing that the Celtic fan, in trying to be relatively calm and sensible about it all, still peddles the "demands £20k a week" line that was in the Daily Record or some other likeminded rag...

It was never about the money.  Ever.  Yet that'll be the line Celtic and the media will cling onto to make Celtic still seem like a "big club".

I never said he demanded it, I am making assumptions obviously along with whats being said. I agree though that say they both offered the exact same terms that he'd be best going to Norwich. Celtic have a history of signing players like this and letting them down with not getting a fair chance, even Christie was on they way out there. He will also be in the promised land of the EPL, and won't have to put up with the baggage of playing in Glasgow. 

Even if he had demanded it, he would have been proven right to with this Norwich offer coming in.  If they didn't there would have been others probably willing with most of the window still to go. 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Guts

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, Sheep62 said:

Not hurting over yet another shambles trying to get Scottish talent in on the cheap.

No lessons learnt from the McGinn fiasco apparently

What a player wants is what a player gets,why would I have a problem with that?
Clubs are just pawns for players to play with.
It's a short career enjoy it while it lasts.

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, Antiochas III said:

Scary thing is he still doesn't realise that the only reason Turnbull signed his new contract with us was to show loyalty to Motherwell by getting them a handsome transfer fee. 

 

Not a single Motherwell fan thought he'd be with us when the season kicked off 

I said Celtic did the same thing with petrov and you were banging on about the agent when nobody gives a feck about the agent.
Another fantasist making shit up.

[wellinwigan]

35 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

What a player wants is what a player gets,why would I have a problem with that?
Clubs are just pawns for players to play with.
It's a short career enjoy it while it lasts.

Seething ^^^^^^

[Sheep62]

45 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

What a player wants is what a player gets,why would I have a problem with that?
Clubs are just pawns for players to play with.
It's a short career enjoy it while it lasts.

Enjoy the walk bhoys

[Busta Nut]

I have seen Sellick fans refer to the "£20k a week" as if it was gospel and use it to justify the "we didn't really want him" theme they now have.  It's amazing.

[wastecoatwilly]

19 minutes ago, wellinwigan said:

Seething ^^^^^^

I can safely say the only player that I got annoyed at in the last few years was Liam Henderson.
Celtic should've kept him.