Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, well fan for life said:

Gallagher will absolutely stroll into the first team.

I reckon there will be a bit of a clear out this summer. Donnelly appears to be a promising player but he's got legs made of glass, Sammon's going back to Hearts and I think Robinson's chucked it with Johnson. 

I'd be happy if we saw some folk getting a chance before the end of the season when things don't really matter. 

Donnelly's a weird one. Earlier in the season he became N.Ireland's record appearance holder at u21 level, captained them and was tucking away penalties against Spain. On the face of it he ticks loads of boxes for the type of signing we'd make. I'm pretty sure both Robinson and Craigan both worked with him in the NI set up however for whatever reason he looks absolutely no where near it for us.

Despite him having been here almost a full season it's still not particularly clear where we see him fitting in. RB? CB? DM?

Whether it's a case of injuries meaning he's not settled or it's an application thing and simply a case of not stepping up a level (as has been hinted at with Johnson) IDK. Having said all that I think there's more chance of Donnelly sticking around as cover than Johnson.

It's difficult to imagine that playing in the Reserves with our u18s was what we sold Johnson after a 20 goal season with Gateshead and unless we're planning on reverting to playing 2 up front then next season will be a case of Johnson getting splinters. Ultimately if we could find a taker for Bowman with 14 goals in 86 games then I'm sure someone in League 1 or 2 would take a punt on Johnson with 7 in 27.

Given the number of bodies we've got out of contract I think a clear out is pretty inevitable and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure Robinson wouldn't welcome another full scale re-build but equally with budgets being what they are this is where Robinson gets the opportunity to reshape if he wants as we're not going to be able to just burn money and cut folk loose while they're under contract.

It's been quite an accelerated rate of evolution in terms of style for Robinson in the 2 years he's been manager.

We've gone from pragmatic shitfest to keep us in the league to a point at which there's a bit more balance between what the manager is comfortable doing and the fans want to see. The direct football that worked last season clearly didn't have the same impact this season and as we've seen the past few months the 433 can work well against against 2/3s of the league but has been largely ineffective against the top 4 or 5.

Will be worth keeping an eye out to see whether Donnelly and Johnson are turning out for the reserves later this afternoon.

Edited April 8, 2019 by capt_oats

[Desp]

I think we will end up seeing another clear-out/rebuild in the summer.   Listening to Robinson in his recent interviews, I am beginning to wonder if he's got the stomach for it again.  If we do manage to get 7th, he may decide he's done his bit and seek a new challenge. 

FWIW, I can see the following departing in the summer

McHugh, Aldred, Hartley, Cadden, Main, Frear, Ariyibi, Newall, Sammon, Johnson, Hastie & McCormack.

That's 12 players, and you'd say four or five of them are regulars in the first team.  It's going to be a big job for the manager in the summer, as it'll be tough to get anywhere near a 100% success rate when you're bringing in 10+ players.

[MJC]

The rebuilding job this summer will be every bit as big if not even bigger than Robinson's first summer transfer window in 2017. We will almost certainly be parting company with several first team players and it is absolutely crucial that he gets it right over all, as he and we as a club cannot go a repeat of last summer's shambles. We need a left back, a left sided midfielders,a central midfielder and at least two forwards in. If rumours are to be believed we have already got Declan Gallagher tied up so that will be one defender in, but we'll need at least one more in that position and very possibly a new goalkeeper.

The pressure on Robinson is massive this summer.

[capt_oats]

49 minutes ago, Desp said:

I think we will end up seeing another clear-out/rebuild in the summer.   Listening to Robinson in his recent interviews, I am beginning to wonder if he's got the stomach for it again.  If we do manage to get 7th, he may decide he's done his bit and seek a new challenge. 

FWIW, I can see the following departing in the summer

McHugh, Aldred, Hartley, Cadden, Main, Frear, Ariyibi, Newall, Sammon, Johnson, Hastie & McCormack.

That's 12 players, and you'd say four or five of them are regulars in the first team.  It's going to be a big job for the manager in the summer, as it'll be tough to get anywhere near a 100% success rate when you're bringing in 10+ players.

I think that's pretty fair. He's got a year to go on his contract after this season's finished and there's no doubt he's built his reputation back up from where it was after being binned off by Oldham.

If we were to get 7th then he'd be looking at a CV having kept us up, 7th place and 2 cup finals in his first full season and 7th and a QF this season along with record profit and turnover off the park. All on one of the lower budgets in the league.

He's currently sitting on a 43.7% win rate which holds up well compared to previous managers. I can imagine it could be quite tempting to look for a new challenge while his stock's relatively high considering the #RobinsonOut chat was rumbling back in January.

When he was linked with the Luton job a lot of the negative reaction was off the back of the style of play that had defined his Motherwell team. I think it's fair to say that he seems a bit less one dimensional at the moment with the Manager of the Month award along with the hype around Hastie, Turnbull and the #YoungMotherwell brand.

Shelf life is a definite thing in football management, I think there's definitely still some mileage left in #SexyMotherwell but a large part of that will be determined on who he's going to be able to get to sign up in addition to guys like Gallagher.

Edited April 8, 2019 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

Sammon but no Johnson or Donnelly...

[ONeils4Oyarder]

Having witnessed their perfomances at the the Reserve Cup Final, I wouldn't be surprised if Maurice Ross has told Robinson to take them to f**k.

[well fan for life]

A CONOR SAMMON DOUBLE.

Sign him up*

 

 

_{*If anyone from Motherwell Football Club is reading this it is entirely for comedic effect. Please don't.}

[capt_oats]

Based on the players we currently have under contract (and assuming Gallagher has signed) then going by the way we're set up at the moment, this is where there will be gaps:

GK: Gillespie / Carson / Ferguson
RB: Grimshaw / Donnelly
RCB: Gallagher / Maguire
LCB: Dunne / Hartley
LB: Tait / Livingstone
CM: Campbell / ?
CM: ? / ?
CM: Turnbull / ?
FW: ? / ?
CF: ? / Scott / Johnson
FW: ? / ?

Obviously last summer showed the flaw with predicating recruitment based on a single style of play so I'd hope Robinson's learned from that and also I'd like to think he's far more conscious of being hamstrung by players who play a specific role ie: Frear's an out and out winger, Johnson's a poacher and little else and I don't think there's really any doubt at the moment that Johnson's behind Scott in the pecking order now.

From the current first team we're replacing Aldred with Gallagher but are then looking to replace: Gorrin, Hastie, Ariyibi and Main (along with Cadden and McHugh). A few of the back up spots can almost certainly be filled by u20s and I'd like to think that the impact Turnbull and Hastie have had would give Robinson the confidence to go with that policy.

Thinking back to last summer (and acknowledging that 3 of those signings have been key players; Gillespie, Aldred, Gorrin) I seem to remember Robinson saying that the rationale with the 12-18 strategy was that he didn't feel he could improve on the the first XI players with the budget he had available. I can 100% see where he was coming from.

However, without knowing the numbers if we missed out on our original targets because of budget but ended up chipping in for Conor Sammon's wages because that's what we were willing to spend then it was a bit of a false economy. Nothing against the big man, he seems to have been a thoroughly solid pro and I doubt Robinson brought him to the club with the intention of not playing him but still... 

Even though there may be a few more first team spots free this time round (if Frear, Cadden, Main and McHugh all move on) I'm curious how Robinson and Burrows address the budget and the offers we're making.

I mean, we're not going to break the wage structure but given Gallagher seems to have opted for us over St Johnstone there's possibly an argument that we might make a bit more of an effort for one or two bits of quality. That's quite contrary to what Robinson's been saying in the press recently about how our offers aren't going to change player's lives but at the same time barring Hastie, Gorrin and Cadden I wouldn't be surprised if the deals we've been offering to guys like Frear, McHugh et al are reduced terms (if we have indeed been making these players offers).

Even in Hastie's case, we'll clearly have offered more than he's on at the moment but the big sales pitch is that he'll actually play first team football every week and hope he'll buy into that having been at the club as long as he has.

Edit: Conor Sammon ballon d'or

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by capt_oats

[Gianfranco]

Gorrin is being linked with a move to Poland in the BBC gossip this morning.

[Desp]

His agent is doing some job on a player that couldn't get in a rank rotten Motherwell side for half a season.

While it's frustrating to lose players, it's an easy sell for players who we want to sign going forward. Come in for a season and if you do well, you'll be able to treble/quadruple, at least, your salary on your next move.

Must be frustrating as f**k for a first team manager though, as the opportunity to actually build a team is almost non-existent.

[ONeils4Oyarder]

Its frustrating as f**k being a fan as well, you start getting the semblance of a team that seems to know what its doing (barring Sundays disaster), and within weeks the players are all starting to get cherry-picked. I know we've always been a selling club, and always will be, but I've never known it to be quite so apparent as it has been for the past 6 or 7 seasons now.

[hoobahabba]

Its frustrating as f**k being a fan as well, you start getting the semblance of a team that seems to know what its doing (barring Sundays disaster), and within weeks the players are all starting to get cherry-picked. I know we've always been a selling club, and always will be, but I've never known it to be quite so apparent as it has been for the past 6 or 7 seasons now.

If it's any consolation, you have "cherry-picked" a very decent defender from our squad.

[ONeils4Oyarder]

Just now, hoobahabba said:

6 minutes ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

Its frustrating as f**k being a fan as well, you start getting the semblance of a team that seems to know what its doing (barring Sundays disaster), and within weeks the players are all starting to get cherry-picked. I know we've always been a selling club, and always will be, but I've never known it to be quite so apparent as it has been for the past 6 or 7 seasons now.

If it's any consolation, you have "cherry-picked" a very decent defender from our squad.

I realise we do it to other teams as well, doesn't make it any less frustrating when it happens to us though

[Casagolda]

3 hours ago, Desp said:

His agent is doing some job on a player that couldn't get in a rank rotten Motherwell side for half a season.

Was bulleted by Boavista and some random Romanian mob as well before he rocked up at Fir Park.

I’ve been a massive fan since the turn of the year but if he and his agent are pissing about demanding silly money after a dozen or so good games, then I hope the club tell him not to the let door his arse on the way out. Same goes for Hastie as well. Or anyone of them out of contract really for that matter. 

All good players but we’re talking mostly about guys we’ve picked up from the footballing scrapheap. Guys who were hunted by the likes of Bury, Portsmouth and Sepsi Sfântu Gheorghe(Googled it- me neither). We should be setting them a deadline before the seasons out, if they don’t want to sign the contract on offer then fair enough. 

Wish them all the best and move on to other targets. It’s another big summer for Robinson, he can’t afford to waste time on guys who have no real interest in being here next season. 

[AndyRoss]

For me it feels like our squad is quite unsettled, despite the gaffer being able to name the same starting eleven for the best part of the last few months.

With contracts running down, loan deals due to expire and media attention on some of the guys who have been performing well - it makes sense that would be the case I suppose.

Sunday wasn't a poor performance, it was just one that was littered by silly mistakes that proved to be costly. Hopefully the shackles come off during the last five games and the team can produce some decent performances. If it's confirmed that any player out of contract is offski, then don't be using a place in the team which could be handed to a Semple/Livingstone/Scott, give those lads a chance to express themselves. 

It's a bit grim the season feels over already, but given how much better the last few months have been at least we have the opportunity to go along and hopefully watch us play some good stuff. 

[Swello]

3 hours ago, Casagolda said:

Was bulleted by Boavista and some random Romanian mob as well before he rocked up at Fir Park.

I’ve been a massive fan since the turn of the year but if he and his agent are pissing about demanding silly money after a dozen or so good games, then I hope the club tell him not to the let door his arse on the way out. Same goes for Hastie as well. Or anyone of them out of contract really for that matter. 

All good players but we’re talking mostly about guys we’ve picked up from the footballing scrapheap. Guys who were hunted by the likes of Bury, Portsmouth and Sepsi Sfântu Gheorghe(Googled it- me neither). We should be setting them a deadline before the seasons out, if they don’t want to sign the contract on offer then fair enough. 

Wish them all the best and move on to other targets. It’s another big summer for Robinson, he can’t afford to waste time on guys who have no real interest in being here next season. 

I think we are at the point where as a club we need to actively expect a "big rebuild" every summer and actually aim to be good at it.  A combination of handing out short contracts and being unable to defend ourselves against any club with more money than us (and that's almost everyone) picking up our better players means that we will as a fact have a big turnover every summer. Add to that the fact that we actively market ourselves as a stepping stone to better money and we can't really complain when agents make that happen when their player strings 5 good games together.

I guess that means that the club need to think about how best to handle integrating so many bodies every summer, learn the lessons of this year about trying to replicate a previously successful formula without the players to do so and (hard as it may be to admit), factor in that at least a quarter of the signings are going to be total duds for whatever reason and make sure we have cover in every position...

As supporters, especially ones that were about pre-bosman - we just need to accept that building a team is now a short term endeavour and that there is far less chance for us to build attachments to players before they are offski....

[Archie McSquackle]

For me it feels like our squad is quite unsettled, despite the gaffer being able to name the same starting eleven for the best part of the last few months.
With contracts running down, loan deals due to expire and media attention on some of the guys who have been performing well - it makes sense that would be the case I suppose.
Sunday wasn't a poor performance, it was just one that was littered by silly mistakes that proved to be costly. Hopefully the shackles come off during the last five games and the team can produce some decent performances. If it's confirmed that any player out of contract is offski, then don't be using a place in the team which could be handed to a Semple/Livingstone/Scott, give those lads a chance to express themselves. 
It's a bit grim the season feels over already, but given how much better the last few months have been at least we have the opportunity to go along and hopefully watch us play some good stuff. 

Yes, it's a bit of a strange feeling when we're just seeing the season out but that really just means we're clear of any relegation issues which I'm quite happy to give a miss this season.
With the prospect of European qualification being pretty remote and our involvement at the semi-final stage of the Scottish Cup being fairly rare, the season just petering out represents a relatively successful season, as dull and depressing as that sounds.
Hopefully some entertaining play and trying out some youngsters will keep the interest levels up.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

I think we are at the point where as a club we need to actively expect a "big rebuild" every summer and actually aim to be good at it.  A combination of handing out short contracts and being unable to defend ourselves against any club with more money than us (and that's almost everyone) picking up our better players means that we will as a fact have a big turnover every summer. Add to that the fact that we actively market ourselves as a stepping stone to better money and we can't really complain when agents make that happen when their player strings 5 good games together.

I guess that means that the club need to think about how best to handle integrating so many bodies every summer, learn the lessons of this year about trying to replicate a previously successful formula without the players to do so and (hard as it may be to admit), factor in that at least a quarter of the signings are going to be total duds for whatever reason and make sure we have cover in every position...

As supporters, especially ones that were about pre-bosman - we just need to accept that building a team is now a short term endeavour and that there is far less chance for us to build attachments to players before they are offski....

This absolutely nails it tbh...

Looking at the majority of the players who are out of contract it's players who *cough, clears throat* did a job when they signed but aren't necessarily what we need now. That's not inherently a criticism of the players it's just the acceleration of Modern Fitba. We've got 100 odd games out of McHugh, 70+ out of Frear and 50+ from Main. Absolutely fine.

The problem of course is that the two former have found themselves on the bench and the latter probably would too had we an alternative option to play the target man role. We've sold them the club as being a platform so it's not unreasonable for any of these players to be looking to cash in elsewhere.

Barring Hastie, Gorrin and possibly Cadden there are very few first team players that I'd imagine we're offering improved terms to.

The way this summer looks like going feels a bit like a reaction to last year where we were dishing out extensions like sweeties and kept a squad together that ultimately didn't replicate the previous season's success.

It's all very conscious uncoupling. We're not going to offer what they want and deep down we probably know that they're not worth that sort of figure anyway so we'll go through the motions and say all the right things knowing that going our separate ways works for both parties.

Edited April 9, 2019 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

That's yer Jamie Semple extended his deal through to 2021.

Good lad.

Also, that's the goal of the season voting live...

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

That's yer Jamie Semple extended his deal through to 2021.

Good lad.

Also, that's the goal of the season voting live...

 

I'm honestly raging that Bowman at Tynecastle isn't included. By far the most I've lost the plot at a game this year.