Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[thisGRAEME]

14 hours ago, crazylegsjoe said:

Edit - maybe we're just playing Hartley in the wrong position, according to transfrmrkt, his record is better than a goal or assist every four games for us 

Is it not right that he's more effective offensively than his video pal, Alexis Sanchez?

I did wonder if going to maximum power is essentially highlighting he's away? I love big Pete, he's a smashing guy and was loads of fun last season until his injury. This season he's just never looked fit, and I feel for him as he seems to have fully committed to being in Lanarkshire. Happy to have him if he can get fit.

[capt_oats]

I think the thing with Hartley is that his limitations aren't things that he's really going to sort out just by getting fit again.

Essentially he's not going to get any quicker, which is fine if we're just sticking him in the middle of a back 3 and asking him to organise but if we're playing with a back 4 then Charlie Dunne's got that position on lock, McHugh's been preferred to him at times this season and presumably Barry Maguire gets a look in there when he's back from his loan too.

There's been a lot of talk about Robinson's learning curve and one thing he mentioned after the Accies game before the break was needing players who were physically capable of a sustained run of games (or words to that effect). Clearly that was a comment on ATS but right now Hartley probably falls into that category too.

Kipré leaving and Dunne having been out for a chunk of the season probably reinforces the need for pace at the back too which again, is something that's also a problem for Hartley.

Presumably he's not really going to settle for being parked on the bench or retained solely on the off chance there may be games where we might want to go with a back 3 given what he was saying about wanting to play games when he signed on loan initially. In fairness, I don't see Robinson being particularly keen about carrying a player like that either given the fairly regular comments about our limited budget.

If we were able to find takers for Fisher and Bowman at League 2 level then we'd probably be able to sort something out with Hartley if there's a bit of flexibility on either side. We even managed to get Louis Laing out on loan to Notts County a couple of seasons ago FFS.

I suppose it really depends on how motivated he is to play (and I'd imagine he is).

Absolutely nothing against the big man he was smashing last season and while it may have brought a frown from the club the pre-match comments and subsequent last minute equaliser against Rangers was great value however given he's the captain and presumably on a decent wedge but not getting any sort of game time it's probably fair to ask where he fits.

Edited March 20, 2019 by capt_oats

[crazylegsjoe]

47 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Absolutely nothing against the big man he was smashing last season and while it may have brought a frown from the club the pre-match comments and subsequent last minute equaliser against Rangers was great value however given he's the captain and presumably on a decent wedge but not getting any sort of game time it's probably fair to ask where he fits.

Yeah, the reason I'd go against keeping many of our subs/fringe players is the money that they are likely to be on just now. It's a dear bench that has the last two club captains on it, as well as Frear and Connor Sammon (I know there's obviously 0% chance we'd keep him anyway).

I'd be all for making Richard Tait captain permanently in the summer, but that seems something of a poisoned chalice these days. 

 

[capt_oats]

28 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe said:

Yeah, the reason I'd go against keeping many of our subs/fringe players is the money that they are likely to be on just now. It's a dear bench that has the last two club captains on it, as well as Frear and Connor Sammon (I know there's obviously 0% chance we'd keep him anyway).

I'd be all for making Richard Tait captain permanently in the summer, but that seems something of a poisoned chalice these days. 

Yeah, ironically thinking back to the first half of the season when folk were taking shots at Robinson and his 12-18 erm, strategy this is precisely what people were advocating. The argument was that we'd bring in better quality for the first XI and bump players who were starting last season down to the bench rather than signing marginally better squad fillers for the bench.

Whether by luck or design the upshot of that is we've ended up with exactly what some were looking for ie: guys like Frear, McHugh and Hartley sat as subs giving us a relatively strong but expensive looking bench.

I notice Narey's Toepoker on Twitter is asking the question as to whether Motherwell are planning a clear out and it's a fair comment given the number of players whose contracts are due to expire.

It doesn't include the loans of Aldred, Ariyibi, Sammon and McCormack so the players he's got listed as OOC are:
Liam Brown, Chris Cadden, Elliot Frear, Shea Gordon, Jake Hastie, Adam Livingstone, Curtis Main, Christian Mbulu, Carl McHugh, Neil McLaughlin, George Newell, Ally Gorrin, Craig Tanner, Aaron Taylor-Sinclair.

14 players but only 3 of them (Hastie, Main, Gorrin) are first team starters at the moment and it's arguable as to whether Main would have been starting had McCormack not been a bust.

Cadden, Mbulu and Tanner are/have been long/long-ish term injuries. Frear and McHugh are first team players bumped down to the bench.

Brown, Gordon, Livingstone, McLaughlin, Newell are all in the Reserves category. (Gordon, McLaughlin and Newell are all out on loan in the lower leagues. Broque Watson and Peter Morrison are also OOC and out on loan)

We've already confirmed ATS won't be getting his contract renewed after his loan at Crewe expires.

All in all that's a fair amount of relatively expendable bodies. Robinson seems keen on Liam Brown (and rightly so, he's a very good player) but surely Adam Livingstone's at the stage where he needs first team games. He's 21 we've already had him out on loan at East Fife and he's been given (limited) first team opportunities but hasn't made anywhere near the impact he'd need.

Edited March 20, 2019 by capt_oats

[Mr. Brightside]

Looks like Tait should've been called up after all now that Tierney has bottled it.

[crazylegsjoe]

4 hours ago, capt_oats said:

It doesn't include the loans of Aldred, Ariyibi, Sammon and McCormack so the players he's got listed as OOC are:
Liam Brown, Chris Cadden, Elliot Frear, Shea Gordon, Jake Hastie, Adam Livingstone, Curtis Main, Christian Mbulu, Carl McHugh, Neil McLaughlin, George Newell, Ally Gorrin, Craig Tanner, Aaron Taylor-Sinclair.

Without knowing a great deal about McLaughlin, I wouldn't be surprised that of the 18 you mention, only Brown, Cadden and Tanner (in light of us being sympathetic to his injury plight) are with us next season.

Hastie aside, I wouldn't be heartbroken about any of them leaving either. 

I think Cadden's injury coupled with the compensation fee involved would put off any potential suitors for him.

Edited March 20, 2019 by crazylegsjoe

[Busta Nut]

We are 100% signing Gallagher from Livi.

[LiviLion]

12 hours ago, Casagolda said:

With the rumoured signing of Gallagher who plays in a back 3 for Livi, I did wonder if Robinson might be tempted to stray back towards playing 3 at the back next season(enter Hartley?).

We've been playing a back 4 recently and he plays RB when we do, remember him playing most of our League 1 season there too. 

[Londonwell]

1 hour ago, LiviLion said:

We've been playing a back 4 recently and he plays RB when we do, remember him playing most of our League 1 season there too. 

Is he any good?

[LiviLion]

1 minute ago, Londonwell said:

Is he any good?

Utter pish. Needs another year or two at Livi to prove himself IMO. 

[AndyRoss]

That wouldn't have happened if Richard Tait had been called up! 

[capt_oats]

Quote

Meanwhile, Carl McHugh is set to leave Motherwell when his contract expires at Fir Park at the end of the season.

The former Steelmen skipper is hoping to return to England after struggling for game time this season, reports the Express .

Not really a massive surprise here. Tbh, given McHugh's experience with concussions while he's been up here I wouldn't blame him for simply wanting a fresh start on a purely psychological level.

I'm not sure it was mentioned on here (though I'm sure it's expected) but the Record were apparently reporting we've "opened" contract talks with Ally Gorrin according to the BBC gossip page through the week.

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Don't think I'd really begrudge McHugh his move tbh. Along with Moult and McDonald he pretty much dragged us to safety in 2017, and has literally put his body on the line for us a few times since - as well as getting a ridiculously hard time from our fans.

 He seemed to be pretty highly thought of when he intially came up here, but has,at best,stagnated over the last year or so.  He's still only 26, so fair enough if he wants another crack at English football. 

[Ludo*1]

Surprised that McHugh is only 26. I thought he was in his mid-30s. I'd have him in a heartbeat at Dens.

On an unrelated note, I take it McCormack has been completely useless since his return? Shame as he was one of the best forward men Scotland had for a few year period.

[capt_oats]

20 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Surprised that McHugh is only 26. I thought he was in his mid-30s. I'd have him in a heartbeat at Dens.

On an unrelated note, I take it McCormack has been completely useless since his return? Shame as he was one of the best forward men Scotland had for a few year period.

I don't know the ins and outs but he's not been useless. He's just not been been anything really. He's only managed 88 minutes of football for us.

We knew he was unfit when he arrived, that was a given as we're not signing Ross McCormack without there being some sort of catch. It was quite something to see just how far off it he was when he made his brief cameos. 

Robinson suggested that we'd been trying to get bounce games to get him in some sort of shape but he wasn't able to take part after picking up a calf injury whether it's the same injury he was reported to have had when he bailed on Central Coast Mariners or not who knows but he hasn't really been heard or seen since.

Last mention was that he was back at Villa for an assessment on his injury but the gist was we wouldn't be seeing him any time soon.

Edited March 24, 2019 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

As I’ve said a fair few times on here before, I’ve always been a fan of McHugh.

From him coming back from 4 months out with concussion to play 90 mins twice in 3 days, to somehow marshalling a defence including the likes of Samson/Griffiths, Jules, Heneghan, Chalmers etc to safety and then some heroic displays in both cup runs last season, the guy has more than played his part over the last few seasons.

However it’s hard to argue that like Bowman and Rose before him, he’s perhaps served his purpose now and it’s time for him to move on as we look to move forward. The same probably applies to likes of Hartley and Main as well- what we needed at the time, probably not needed going forward.

In fact when you look at the spine of the team(s) that got us to both cup finals last season, there might well not be a great deal of it left come the start of next season. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Casagolda

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

As I’ve said a fair few times on here before, I’ve always been a fan of McHugh.

From him coming back from 4 months out with concussion to play 90 mins twice in 3 days, to somehow marshalling a defence including the likes of Samson/Griffiths, Jules, Heneghan, Chalmers etc to safety and then some heroic displays in both cup runs last season, the guy has more than played his part over the last few seasons.

However it’s hard to argue that like Bowman and Rose before him, he’s perhaps served his purpose now and it’s time for him to move on as we look to move forward. The same probably applies to likes of Hartley and Main as well- what we needed at the time, probably not needed going forward.

In fact when you look at the spine of the team(s) that got us to both cup finals last season, there might well not be a great deal of it left come the start of next season. 

I think this is an interesting point.

I know the general perception of last summer is that the recruitment was a disaster but looking back on it Robinson spent a lot of time last season flagging our midfield and talking about how we needed to "look after" the ball better. It was something he'd reference win, lose or draw.

IIRC Robinson billed Ally Gorrin as someone who would give us better "ownership" of the midfield. I may be doing McHugh a disservice here but from that point it felt that Robinson wasn't convinced by either Bigi or McHugh anchoring the midfield so presumably there's always been a question mark in a longer-term sense.

Overall I'd say McHugh's contribution should absolutely be viewed positively but at the same time there's always been a bit of a weird disconnect between him seeing himself as a midfielder and his effectiveness there, which is something that's been highlighted by the difference that A-Rod's made.

Throwing it out there but while Robinson's been talking him up now and again Frear probably falls into that bracket too (vs. Ariyibi & Hastie).

Frear wasn't a Robinson signing and he clearly doesn't have the physical attributes of the first pick wingers. I could be miles out but it wouldn't be a massive surprise if his contract expiring gave us a chance to bring in someone with a bit more by way of physicality.

[crazylegsjoe]

Agree with the last two posts about McHugh.

I'll definitely view him in a positive light overall. I do definitely think that he is a better centre half than centre midfielder right enough. He'd be a dear substitute for us and at 26, I doubt he wants to hang around to be backup and you can't fault him for that. It would represent a major lack of ambition if he was willing to go from club captain to sub in less than two years.

I think in the summer when Robinson made those remarks about Rodriguez Gorrin we were all ruing the fact it might stifle Turnbull's development, when actually there's a valid argument that Robinson perhaps identified Bigi's physical deficiencies and McHugh's technical deficiencies and signed a player able at both sides, to enable Campbell to be box-to-box and Turnbull to make things happen higher up the pitch. Obviously, he took time to find his feet and it's only since January we've been reaping the rewards had that been the case.

I must say that I've always liked Frear and think he gets a harsh press of our fans, but in truth it's time for him to go now too. You could argue that with potentially Ariyibi and Hastie going in the summer, we could replace them with a right footed winger in Cadden and a left footed winger in Frear from within, but in all honesty, I can't see either of them being suited to our current way of inverting wingers, so that would require a change in style again.

I think the unfortunate thing for Frear is that he seems to be of a fit that is getting more and more redundant in the modern game. Whilst he would probably be described as an out-an-out winger, these days teams have full backs and wide forwards, neither of which I can see him transitioning to particularly well.

 

[capt_oats]

Cadden back for the reserves.

Also unreasonably amused to see we have a player on the books called Motherwell (I take it it's Liam Motherwell).

Edited March 25, 2019 by capt_oats

[AndyRoss]

Wasn't there a lad that changed his name for a Real Radio competition to Motherwell FC?

Hopefully him...