Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I don't want to go full Well Fans II but surely questions have to  be asked here? Obviously it's pretty much a lottery judging potential at the age of 19/20 but it seems pretty amateurish to me that the club are waiting until players make an impact on the first team before they offer them new terms. You'd hope they're at least somewhat aware of who they're going to integrate into the first team or not at the start of the season.

[Swami]

Jake Hastie would be just what Rangers need. A 512th midfielder. 

[dezz]

I know Kent will probably leave Rangers at the end of the season but they’ll still have Middleton, Jones, Candeias, Murphy, Grezda (who they spent about £2m on!), and potentially others who might join in the summer. Can’t see him getting much, if any, game time ahead of that lot... but maybe he won’t care if he’s taking home £4K a week.

Obviously I’d like him to stay but if we end up with £600k for a guy with about 10 first team appearances, I could live with that.

[Kyle]

3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I don't want to go full Well Fans II but surely questions have to  be asked here? Obviously it's pretty much a lottery judging potential at the age of 19/20 but it seems pretty amateurish to me that the club are waiting until players make an impact on the first team before they offer them new terms. You'd hope they're at least somewhat aware of who they're going to integrate into the first team or not at the start of the season.

I'm surprised Motherwell didn't act with more haste (sorry I couldn't think of a better way of wording that) after all the clubs Turnbull was linked with prior to him signing his deal. 

[RandomGuy.]

What an absolute fanny Hastie is. Throwing away years of hard work to make it into a first team, only to chuck yourself back to the start for the sake of extra money, money which wouldn't compare to what he'd get if he won a big move to England.

He'll play about three times for them next season, probably end up like Greg Docherty and win himself a loan move to fucking Shrewsbury.

Edited March 8, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Desp]

If this is true (and there's enough folk going on about it to make me believe it's a done deal) then I have no problem with him moving on to a bigger club for more money. 

I do think it's the wrong move for him from a playing point a view, though.  Even if he stayed at Fir Park for another season, then made his move after playing 50+ times in the Premiership, he'd be in a far better position to do make that step up.  Now though?  He was playing for Alloa three months ago and he's then hoping to get above five or six wide players already at Ibrox.  A tough ask.

If and when it's confirmed, I hope Stephen Robinson comes out and says he'll no longer be considered for the first team.  If he's made his decision, fair play to him.  Motherwell's model is to bring young players through and sell them on.  If he signs for Rangers, job done for Motherwell.  We've got someone like Elliot Frear who'll be playing be for a new deal at Motherwell so I'd rather give him the opportunity over the next couple of months. 

There's no doubt by the time he's 23, Hastie will be a wealthy guy but I have the feeling he's not making the best career choice here.  Still, I'm very much of the opinion that when a player moves on from Motherwell, I couldn't give a shit where he goes or what he does.  I was never the fan who went out a bought an Everton top with McFadden on the back of it, nor was I one to head to Preston for the day to watch Louis Moult sit on the bench. 

All the best to the lad, but we'll move on and bring the next one through. 

[AndyRoss]

The club are going to get it tight here, but it's worth considering the flack they've got previously for signing young lads on to long term deals, only to later discover they weren't actually up to much.

Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of Dom Thomas, Zaine Francis-Angol, Fraser Kerr, Adam Cummins and Bob McHugh. I'm sure someone will list more obvious players than that too.

Hastie's breakthrough into the first team has been pretty spectacular, far beyond what anyone would have anticipated. I'm sure we would have been working behind the scenes to try get a deal sorted, but on the other hand, look at guys like McKinstry who has moved on without kicking a ball for the first team. Agents clearly become aware of interest from elsewhere and they'll play a big role in advising the player as to where their future is best served. 

I think he's going to really struggle for game time at Rangers and what happens next at Fir Park could potentially stall his development too. If we decide he doesn't kick a ball between now and the end of the season, he arrives at Ibrox as a player who has played 10 first team games for the Motherwell first team since October 2016. 

It's a sore yin, there's no way of getting away from that,  though I think if we were to be given the choice of securing one of Turnbull and Hastie, most would have went for Turnbull. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by AndyRoss

[ONeils4Oyarder]

Folk saying he isn't making the correct career-choice are a wee bit wide of the mark in my opinion. This contract could be life-defining for the boy, not just career-defining.

 

I believe he is currently on circa £300 a week, no idea what Rangers offer these days but even if its a 3 year deal (I'm lead to believe its a 5 year though) at £3000 a week plus, a fairly substantial signing on fee. The contract at a very conservative estimate, could be in the region of £500,000 and pretty much set-up for life.

 

The whole affair strikes me, that Motherwell don't actually rate him that highly, and are more than happy to take the development fee...if they were desperate to keep him and offload him for more money in the Summer, all they had to do was increase his wages to what his demands were...and again, from what I can gather, they weren't ridiculous demands.

 

As Desp says above, as soon as he signs on that dotted line for another club, he should be jettisoned to train with the youths again. He'll no longer be our player, we are in no danger of being relegated, no realistic prospect of top6 and we owe him nothing. 

[ONeils4Oyarder]

1 minute ago, AndyRoss said:

The club are going to get it tight here, but it's worth considering the flack they've got previously for signing young lads on to long term deals, only to later discover they weren't actually up to much.

Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of Dom Thomas, Zaine Francis-Angol, Fraser Kerr, Adam Cummins and Bob McHugh. I'm sure someone will list more obvious players than that too.

Hastie's breakthrough into the first team has been pretty spectacular, far beyond what anyone would have anticipated. I'm sure we would have been working behind the scenes to try get a deal sorted, but on the other hand, look at guys like McKinstry who has moved on without kicking a ball for the first team. Agents clearly become aware of interest from elsewhere and they'll play a big role in advising the player as to where their future is best served. 

I think he's going to really struggle for game time at Rangers and what happens next at Fir Park could potentially stall his development too. If we decide he doesn't kick a ball between now and the end of the season, he arrives at Ibrox as a player who has played 10 first team games for the first team since October 2016. 

It's a sore yin, there's no way of getting away from that,  though I think if we were to be given the choice of securing one of Turnbull and Hastie, most would have went for Turnbull. 

Hes had a similar impact to Ross Forbes...Ross Forbes is now tearing it up at Dumbarton. The Club will get it tight, but I'm willing to bet that they know the true worth of the player better than Steven Gerrard.

[AndyRoss]

1 minute ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

Hes had a similar impact to Ross Forbes...Ross Forbes is now tearing it up at Dumbarton. The Club will get it tight, but I'm willing to bet that they know the true worth of the player better than Steven Gerrard.

I knew someone would come along with a better and more obvious example - it took three minutes for you to do that! 

[Desp]

Canny believe nobody has brought up Luke Watt yet.  Three and a half year deal for that wee tadger! The best right back that never got into the first team, according to some. 

[capt_oats]

There they are...manager of the month and player of the month.

 

[Swello]

46 minutes ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

As Desp says above, as soon as he signs on that dotted line for another club, he should be jettisoned to train with the youths again. He'll no longer be our player, we are in no danger of being relegated, no realistic prospect of top6 and we owe him nothing. 

As a supporter, I totally get this point of view, but realistically, I doubt the club would do it. We make a big play of treating players well at Fir Park and from a players perspective, it wouldn't be a good look sticking someone back into the youth team because they signed a big contract a couple of months before the end of the season as is their right. If we explicitly sell the club to young players and their parents/agents as a stepping stone, we can't throw the toys out the pram when they use us as such....

If he needs to spend time on the bench to accommodate Cadden's return or if we want to give Frear a proper run in this formation to see if he's worth a new deal, that would be fine - but papping him out the squad as a punishment is too far IMO.

[Ron Aldo]

I don't want to go all "Well Fans II" but if Hastie signs for Rangers then f**k him.

 

That is all.

 

[DukDukGoose]

11 hours ago, welldaft said:

If this turns out to be true I would not be at all surprised.  Not sure the club nor the lad himself would be happy with this news breaking. 

Whatever anyone says I think we have missed out on not taking a punt and offering him a contract earlier in the year. 

Sure no one knew the impact he would make in the 1st team, but he was doing well at Alloa and those within the club must have known he had talent. To leave it until a few months before the end of the season.....hopefully we have learned a BIG and probably rather costly lesson. 

Any other club but the old firm. Wish he was headed down south. 

If nothing else it should bring an end to the speculation of whether he will sign an extended contract or not....

 

 

Apologies to jump in to your thread but the highlighted part is why I'm sure there's nothing in the Shinnie to **** rumours.

The Hastie news is poor If true. Yes, he will be much better off financially in the short term but he's likely to end up at QoTS or similar in a few years going down that route.

[Swello]

31 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

There they are...manager of the month and player of the month.

 

Looks like a screenshot from a hostage video.

[Desp]

Very much a "You'll never guess what I've just done.." look on Hastie's face.

[Swello]

Obviously will be overlooked a bit because of Hastie, but it's pretty remarkable that Robinson is holding a MOTM award considering where he was after the County game - a lot of supporters wanted him out at that point - some turnaround and fair play to him.

[Luke92]

At this point we don't actually know for sure what's happening but let's be honest it doesn't look very good. I think if Hastie was going to stay he would have signed up before now.  Hopefully Robinson's presser will shed more light on the situation but I am guessing we will get the usual vagueness until later in the season. Robinson will want to keep it unconfirmed until the end of the season.

In terms of the club,  I know it is somewhat easy in hindsight to say 'we should have had him signed up' but if our model is to bring young guys through and sell them on then that's exactly what we should have done. I am sure there are some valid reasons for not tying guys up longer term but we knew by atleast the summer that Turnbull, Maguire and Hastie were the main prospects from the youth academy. Any club worth their salt forward plans, if you don't think they are going to make it they shouldn't be there.

We are lucky that Turnbull decided to stay having taken the same risk. Maguire we have given a one year deal, so if he does come in next year and does great we are in the same boat again. I don't believe the theory that young players do not want to take longer contracts, at that age anyone in the game wants security especially when they weren't breaking through last year.

I appreciate the philosophical attitude from some fans but for me personally seeing one of our best young players in some time leave to them is sickening. You can talk about the 600k but if we had him signed up we could have got a lot more. In all honesty I don't really understand how a transfer fee softens the below from a fan perspective. As the normal punter going every week it has very little impact on match day. We aren't going to reinvest it in the squad; it's going to clear debt, that it.

We have spent about 10 (?) years developing this boy for him to leave on compensation money after half a year in the first team would be horrific.

[capt_oats]

7 hours ago, Kyle said:

I'm surprised Motherwell didn't act with more haste (sorry I couldn't think of a better way of wording that) after all the clubs Turnbull was linked with prior to him signing his deal. 

See, that's the thing. There's absolutely no doubt it's not a good look with hindsight but we gave him a 2.5 year deal back in 2016 and in that time he's made 32 appearances for Airdrie in League 1 and scored 4 goals and scored 3 in 23 appearances for Alloa. 7 goals in 55 games in the lower leagues isn't the sort of return you'd be anticipating Sevco to break out their chequebook for.

I'm pretty sure we'd have spoken to him about a new deal at the start of the season and there was one on the table at the end of January (the game against Dundee on the 26th was only his 2nd start for Motherwell). I get there's a bit of hysteria about the whole thing but I genuinely don't see offering a  deal to a player with a handful of starts in January is particularly unusual.

Whilst most would have had high hopes for Hastie even the player himself has admitted he didn't see the impact he's had coming. He came back to Fir Park expecting to be making appearances off the bench. 3 weeks ago he was pretty much saying he planned to sign. Then he started pinging in 30 yarders and well...we are where we are.

There's an irony of sorts that had Elliot Frear not been injured for the Hibs game there's a fair chance Hastie would have been on the bench and every chance would have signed the deal on the table. There's also every chance we'd be several points worse off but sliding doors and that.

It's easy to say that Motherwell should have been chucking a 10 year deal at him at the start of the season but I'd have thought his rep would be telling him not to sign anything until he saw how things played out. Which from his client's point of view is absolutely the right thing to do. Why would he advocate signing a longer term deal on lower terms at the start of the season when there's a chance he gets to January, comes good and is in a better position to negotiate?

We absolutely got lucky with Turnbull but again, we were offering him his extension in October and by the time of the AGM we'd had 4 offers kb'd, and that's from an agent who wanted Turnbull out on loan this season.

Edited March 8, 2019 by capt_oats