Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[mjw]

Any tickets left?
 
For the rugby.

This post has aged well..

[nsr]

Took my boy to this one for his first ever match . He'll probably expect us to win every week now...

[JamesP_81]

Took my boy to this one for his first ever match [emoji3]. He'll probably expect us to win every week now...

I made that mistake taking him to the morton LC game last year, 4-0 and I'm left thinking that I've just made this harder for myself!

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, JamesP_81 said:

6 hours ago, nsr said:

Took my boy to this one for his first ever match . He'll probably expect us to win every week now...

I made that mistake taking him to the morton LC game last year, 4-0 and I'm left thinking that I've just made this harder for myself!

First game I can remember was Brechin City in 1985. We got the 1st Division trophy at the end.

Imagine my disappointment when I found out that following Motherwell constituted getting pumped thoroughly in the debriefing room off Hearts for the next 8 years.

[JamesP_81]

First game I can remember was Brechin City in 1985. We got the 1st Division trophy at the end.
Imagine my disappointment when I found out that following Motherwell constituted getting pumped thoroughly in the debriefing room off Hearts for the next 8 years.

I grew up in Glasgow and always just cheered for the team that pissed off my family or whatever friends I was in the company of the most. Parents decided to move house when I was 10 and I decided that whatever the closest team to me was that would be my team for evermore. We moved in June 1991, it seemed at the time that I had got lucky......

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

On the plus side, after 8 years Tommy Coyne signed. If, like me, anyone was at Tynecastle for his second game, it was one of the greatest moments in Motherwell's history. He'd scored two at Easter Road on his debut but we still lost. That night, though. Hat Trick: there was a solemn silence that night when we all realised we had witnessed greatness. It was the first time 90% of the crowd had ever seen us win there.  Made better by Jaurice Monston missing a pelanty late on.

 

[senorsoupe]

38 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

Imagine my disappointment when I found out that following Motherwell constituted getting pumped thoroughly in the debriefing room off Hearts for the next 8 years.

Excellent use of Blackadder quotes

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

6 minutes ago, senorsoupe said:

Excellent use of Blackadder quotes

Between 1985 and 1993 Walter Kidd used to regularly pop a box of chocolates in the Fir Park dressing room, machine gun his phone number over the Keep Cigarettes Away From The Match advert, then shoot off and shag Hamilton Accies.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo

[18May1991]

4 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

First game I can remember was Brechin City in 1985. We got the 1st Division trophy at the end.

Imagine my disappointment when I found out that following Motherwell constituted getting pumped thoroughly in the debriefing room off Hearts for the next 8 years.

Same for me. I know I was taken to games before that, memories of away games v Accies and Clydebank in particular for some reason, but the game v Brechin was the first I really remember. 

[Swello]

5 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

First game I can remember was Brechin City in 1985. We got the 1st Division trophy at the end.

Imagine my disappointment when I found out that following Motherwell constituted getting pumped thoroughly in the debriefing room off Hearts for the next 8 years.

I started going right at the start of 85/86 - so I can at least say that I've never seen us outside the top flight.* The first couple of seasons were pretty grim really but at least there was a feeling of improvement and something building right up until we won the cup....

 

 

* a boast I've smugly used  a record 425 times on P&B.

[capt_oats]

With the impending January window, long term injury to 'assets' like Carson, players like Bigi and Grimshaw forcing their way into the starting line up, Robinson's quite ambiguous comments about having been 'too loyal' to certain players and the fact that it should be clear to everyone by now that we royally fucked the summer window it got me wondering how much flexibility we have in January.

I don't know whether it was just a line but I seem to recall Robinson mentioning he'd had guys like Tanner and Dunne out doing scout reports on players for January. In fact one of Charlie Taxi's Insta stories may have come from a game he was at doing exactly that.

By my count we're looking at: Main, McHugh, Bowman, Frear, Rose, Bigirimana, ATS, Tanner, Cadden, Grimshaw, Mbulu, Gorrin and Newell all out of contract at the end of the season with Aldred and Sammon's loans being up too.

That's 15 players which seems...a lot particularly given the strategy and model of giving players a platform and trying flip them for profit. It also includes 5 of our 6 listed first-team forwards. While I can see us trying to fire Sammon from a cannon all the way back to Gorgie I wonder how bold Robinson would be willing to be in terms of cutting players loose midway through a season and how many of those we'd be willing to let walk for free in the summer (bearing in mind we apparently paid cash money for Bowman and Frear and Bigi was probably one of those brought in on a promise of giving him a platform).

I don't particularly envisage us dishing out contract extensions at this point to anyone other than #YoungMotherwell players who have made an impact or that we're particularly invested in stepping up nor do I really look at that list and see players that we'd be battering the door down to sign up (Cadden is probably the only one there to protect our investment and even he looks like he's plateaued). Similarly I can't really see us freshening things up without there being some movement out.

A listed first team squad of 24 players seems like we're maxed out and whatever way you look at it we need a few players in.

Edit: The fact I've been giving Steelmen a heavy swerve meant I missed these interviews with Bigi and Main.

Edited November 27, 2018 by capt_oats

[thisGRAEME]

10 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

By my count we're looking at: Main, McHugh, Bowman, Frear, Rose, Bigirimana, ATS, Tanner, Cadden, Grimshaw, Mbulu, Gorrin and Newell all out of contract at the end of the season with Aldred and Sammon's loans being up too.

Bolds as definite keeps for me.

Italics as a 'could be convinced'

Everyone else as a nah, thank you.

I've never particularly fancied Grimshaw, but he's been so good in the last few games, give me another two years of that please. Bigi and Tanner are #Ballers, Mbulu absolutely has something, Cadden and Aldred, aye.

Main, Bowman and Gorrin all have something. I like the front two if they're standing alongside someone that isn't the other one. Gorrin might be good, might not be, IDK.

McHugh and Rose have absolutely contributed over their time here, and McHugh particularly when he returned from injury in his first season, but I'm just not really sure where he fits. He's okay at centre-half (but we have better ones), he's okay in midfield (but we have better ones), and presumably is a pretty big earner. He's unfortunate in his worst days coinciding with big moments, or on collective bad days, but I'm just not sure whether if I'd pick him in either position in our best XI anymore.  Rose; I've had a lot of time for, but I assume he'll be away. Frear; not for me. ATS; who? Newell; lol. Sammon; Looked a weird signing, actually willed him to do well, hasn't, bye.

[capt_oats]

36 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Bolds as definite keeps for me.

Italics as a 'could be convinced'

Everyone else as a nah, thank you.

I've never particularly fancied Grimshaw, but he's been so good in the last few games, give me another two years of that please. Bigi and Tanner are #Ballers, Mbulu absolutely has something, Cadden and Aldred, aye.

Main, Bowman and Gorrin all have something. I like the front two if they're standing alongside someone that isn't the other one. Gorrin might be good, might not be, IDK.

McHugh and Rose have absolutely contributed over their time here, and McHugh particularly when he returned from injury in his first season, but I'm just not really sure where he fits. He's okay at centre-half (but we have better ones), he's okay in midfield (but we have better ones), and presumably is a pretty big earner. He's unfortunate in his worst days coinciding with big moments, or on collective bad days, but I'm just not sure whether if I'd pick him in either position in our best XI anymore.  Rose; I've had a lot of time for, but I assume he'll be away. Frear; not for me. ATS; who? Newell; lol. Sammon; Looked a weird signing, actually willed him to do well, hasn't, bye.

Aye, I'm broadly in the same place other than Bowman (who I like but 3 seasons in I'm pretty much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about).

The midfield and McHugh/Rose is interesting to me. Last season the midfield 3 was Campbell, McHugh and Rose and that was absolutely fine for what we were doing but ultimately it was pretty limited. This season when we've found a bit of form we've been running with Bigi and Turnbull +1 which is a bit more expansive and quite a shift in styles particularly given the stereotype Robinson has. Ironically that's probably what Mikey Stewart was getting at in the Gorrin bit that led to the pile-on after Sportscene on Sunday.

We seem to have flipped the #Grafters to #Ballers ratio.

I'm kind of looking at that list less in a good guy/w**k sense and more, as you mention about McHugh, where do they actually fit?

[thisGRAEME]

32 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Aye, I'm broadly in the same place other than Bowman (who I like but 3 seasons in I'm pretty much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about).

The midfield and McHugh/Rose is interesting to me. Last season the midfield 3 was Campbell, McHugh and Rose and that was absolutely fine for what we were doing but ultimately it was pretty limited. This season when we've found a bit of form we've been running with Bigi and Turnbull +1 which is a bit more expansive and quite a shift in styles particularly given the stereotype Robinson has. Ironically that's probably what Mikey Stewart was getting at in the Gorrin bit that led to the pile-on after Sportscene on Sunday.

We seem to have flipped the #Grafters to #Ballers ratio.

I'm kind of looking at that list less in a good guy/w**k sense and more, as you mention about McHugh, where do they actually fit?

Aye, the Gorrin piece was odd right enough, but the pile-on has been...something.

I think if you kept McHugh OR Rose, I think that's fine? Both might be a bit much, kind of the same with Bowman and Main. Robinson was at pains to suggest he was hunting a 'goalscorer' over the summer, wasn't he? Gaffney I presume was that, but fell apart after Salford took him. Bowman OR Main aside Johnson is fine for me, I'm not bothered which way we go. 

I'd quite like it if we won all our games in December this year, after being hot garbage the rest of the season, nice wee reverse of last season.

[dezz]

For me I’d be looking to keep; Bigi, Tanner, Cadden, Grimshaw, Mbulu, Aldred and Main.

Gorrin is a maybe and I’d be content with either one of Rose or McHugh. Right now I’d probably plump for Rose who I’ve always been a fan of and is probably cheaper than McHugh.

Newell, Sammon and ATS have done the square root of hee haw and Frear just doesn’t seem to fit with Robinson’s playing style. I like Bowman, no faulting his effort, but we could do better.

I’m not sure if we’ll look to pay up some contracts early in Jan and look to reinvest the wages elsewhere but Livingstone and Hastie could easily replace ATS and Frear if something could be agreed, with their wages spent elsewhere. Hopefully on another forward option.

The key one at the moment is tying down Turnbull obviously.

[PauloPerth]

On 23/11/2018 at 15:58, Swello said:

The winter break helped get things back on an even keel but you have to wonder if cramming a quarter of the season into one month in order to get a winter break was a major part of  the problem.

You do have to question the logic of the winter break, with quite a few midweek games in December and after the break to allow for it.

Last season we had 2 games in November, followed by 7 in December.

When you throw in all the international breaks, do we really need it?

[well fan for life]

It's an interesting list that and it covers a number of different thoughts I have around the current squad.

Main - Keep. He looked back to something approaching his best on Saturday and really deserved a goal. I don't think he's a 25 goal a season striker but he general graft and work looks a bit more useful when he's up there with a poacher. i.e. Danny Johnson.

McHugh - Not fussed. I think he's had games for us where he's been absolutely class. The cup game against Hearts when he scored that outrageous volley is one that sticks out as I think he must have won about 50 headers up against Hearts array of giants. However his disciplinary record is woeful, once he's been booked we should just hook him as he loses the heid for 10 minutes afterwards.

Bowman - In the bin. f**k me I'm tired of watched someone who seems to base their entire game around failing to trap a ball before chasing it towards a corner flag at breakneck speed. He's had a couple of purple patches with us but they seemed to coincide with Moult/Main being in form. While I think the furore around the Cardoso incident was spectacularly over the top, he's doing my tits in as he still jumps in to every header with his elbows round his ears.

Frear - In the bin. I suppose us playing systems that don't require an actual winger has somewhat shackled him and he can't really be faulted for that. However, in the case for the prosecution, he's an imposter. If he plays a game and doesn't go past his man in the first 5 minutes just hook him as he's a man short. He rarely looks like he's bothering himself.

Rose - Keep. I like big Andy Rose. I think he's underrated and, according to some of the shouts in the Cooper stand, he's shite. I think he does an absolute power of work in midfield that goes unnoticed a lot of the time. 

Bigirimana - Keep. Absolute #baller.

ATS - In the bin. I know we shop in the market of guys who are on trying to get their career back on track but he seems to be less fit than me. I don't really think we can justify keeping him on when we really have no idea what we've signed.

Tanner - Keep. I'm pretty gutted about Tanner's repeated setbacks as he has shown how good he can be. When we managed to get Bigi & Tanner in the same team some of the play around the edge of the box was absolutely delicious. Also delivers a wicked set piece and absolutely hates Dundee Football Club.

Cadden - Keep. I know he looked to have plateaued somewhat but he was coming on to a game at right back. The mixture of him and Grimshaw (more on him in a minute) was excellent as it opened half the park up for Cadden to run in to. Seems to suit his game more as he isn't capable of using skill to beat a man. 

Grimshaw - Keep. I wasn't sure on him for a while but recently he's arguably been our best player. I think we can now see why he captained a Manchester United youth team and had actual money paid for him when he left us. Very tidy, looks like he would tackle anything and recently his mazy runs are what make my Saturdays worth leaving the house for.

Mbulu - Keep. He looked assured at the weekend and has something about him. I don't think he'll quite eclipse Kipré but his inclusion added something that we've been missing for a while. If Dunne's back on Saturday I'd like to see what a back 3 of Dunne, Aldred and Mbulu were like. 

Gorrin - Keep. The pile on was a bit OTT tbh. I thought he was quite good on Saturday and Michael Stewart has said that he wasn't really briefed on things so he didn't know what role he'd played. I thought he looked tidy and quite a cultured player. More of the same would be lovely, thanks.

Newell - Honestly forgot he even played for us until he was mentioned on another thread last week. I think tests have come back and have confirmed that his legs are, in fact, made out of cardboard and sellotape.

Loans:

Aldred - Keep. A total warrior and looks more at home in the middle of defence where his entire remit is to heider anything that comes near him. Big fan. 

Sammon - I'm playing 7s at the Oriam on Friday so if he wants a lift through he can hop in. If not then I'm firing up a GoFundMe to build a giant catapult to launch him back to Gorgie. In. The. Bin.

[Swello]

43 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

It's an interesting list that and it covers a number of different thoughts I have around the current squad.

Main - Keep. He looked back to something approaching his best on Saturday and really deserved a goal. I don't think he's a 25 goal a season striker but he general graft and work looks a bit more useful when he's up there with a poacher. i.e. Danny Johnson.

McHugh - Not fussed. I think he's had games for us where he's been absolutely class. The cup game against Hearts when he scored that outrageous volley is one that sticks out as I think he must have won about 50 headers up against Hearts array of giants. However his disciplinary record is woeful, once he's been booked we should just hook him as he loses the heid for 10 minutes afterwards.

Bowman - In the bin. f**k me I'm tired of watched someone who seems to base their entire game around failing to trap a ball before chasing it towards a corner flag at breakneck speed. He's had a couple of purple patches with us but they seemed to coincide with Moult/Main being in form. While I think the furore around the Cardoso incident was spectacularly over the top, he's doing my tits in as he still jumps in to every header with his elbows round his ears.

Frear - In the bin. I suppose us playing systems that don't require an actual winger has somewhat shackled him and he can't really be faulted for that. However, in the case for the prosecution, he's an imposter. If he plays a game and doesn't go past his man in the first 5 minutes just hook him as he's a man short. He rarely looks like he's bothering himself.

Rose - Keep. I like big Andy Rose. I think he's underrated and, according to some of the shouts in the Cooper stand, he's shite. I think he does an absolute power of work in midfield that goes unnoticed a lot of the time. 

Bigirimana - Keep. Absolute #baller.

ATS - In the bin. I know we shop in the market of guys who are on trying to get their career back on track but he seems to be less fit than me. I don't really think we can justify keeping him on when we really have no idea what we've signed.

Tanner - Keep. I'm pretty gutted about Tanner's repeated setbacks as he has shown how good he can be. When we managed to get Bigi & Tanner in the same team some of the play around the edge of the box was absolutely delicious. Also delivers a wicked set piece and absolutely hates Dundee Football Club.

Cadden - Keep. I know he looked to have plateaued somewhat but he was coming on to a game at right back. The mixture of him and Grimshaw (more on him in a minute) was excellent as it opened half the park up for Cadden to run in to. Seems to suit his game more as he isn't capable of using skill to beat a man. 

Grimshaw - Keep. I wasn't sure on him for a while but recently he's arguably been our best player. I think we can now see why he captained a Manchester United youth team and had actual money paid for him when he left us. Very tidy, looks like he would tackle anything and recently his mazy runs are what make my Saturdays worth leaving the house for.

Mbulu - Keep. He looked assured at the weekend and has something about him. I don't think he'll quite eclipse Kipré but his inclusion added something that we've been missing for a while. If Dunne's back on Saturday I'd like to see what a back 3 of Dunne, Aldred and Mbulu were like. 

Gorrin - Keep. The pile on was a bit OTT tbh. I thought he was quite good on Saturday and Michael Stewart has said that he wasn't really briefed on things so he didn't know what role he'd played. I thought he looked tidy and quite a cultured player. More of the same would be lovely, thanks.

Newell - Honestly forgot he even played for us until he was mentioned on another thread last week. I think tests have come back and have confirmed that his legs are, in fact, made out of cardboard and sellotape.

Loans:

Aldred - Keep. A total warrior and looks more at home in the middle of defence where his entire remit is to heider anything that comes near him. Big fan. 

Sammon - I'm playing 7s at the Oriam on Friday so if he wants a lift through he can hop in. If not then I'm firing up a GoFundMe to build a giant catapult to launch him back to Gorgie. In. The. Bin.

Annoyingly, I agree with everything in this....

My main hope in the summer is to go for a quality over quantity instead of the supermarket sweep of summer 2018. There's ample evidence that we've got got capable backups in the reserves for a few positions, so we really need to be using any budget we have on a  (very) small number of players that will add something different. Cifcti may not have set the heather on fire (much as I enjoyed watching him play) - but that is the type of signing we should be going for IMO.

[well fan for life]

3 minutes ago, Swello said:

Annoyingly, I agree with everything in this....

My main hope in the summer is to go for a quality over quantity instead of the supermarket sweep of summer 2018. There's ample evidence that we've got got capable backups in the reserves for a few positions, so we really need to be using any budget we have on a  (very) small number of players that will add something different. Cifcti may not have set the heather on fire (much as I enjoyed watching him play) - but that is the type of signing we should be going for IMO.

Aye pretty much. I adore big Nadir and would carry him back to Fir Park on my shoulders if need be but, sadly, he's never coming back. I don't think we need to sign another grafter of a striker. I'd prefer someone who's a bit of a *ahem* maverick.

[Ron Aldo]

Fairly sure i've said this before but when going for a striker last summer I don't understand why Robinson never looked into the possibility of either Greg Stewart or Tony Watt.

 

Both were obviously available and both have signed for teams who (at the start of the season anyway) you'd have expected us to be able to compete with both on the pitch and financially. In the case of Watt you could argue that we were a more attractive proposition than St. Johnstone given we had finished higher in the league and come off the back of two cup finals.

 

Obviously this is all just my opinion and, without knowing respective budgets, could be a lot of shite. Its just frustrating to see both doing well and offering something different to what we have while, meanwhile, we've ended up signing Curtis Main's dad to sit on the bench as 4th choice.