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Partick Thistle 2022/23 thread


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1 minute ago, archie guevara said:

Is James Cairney only allowed a limited number of articles in the Glasgow Times? He's been quiet for a while. Maybe waiting to see what happens at the game tomorrow. 

He was near me at the Dundee game in the John Lambie stand  so possible he's been on annual leave. Appreciate this sounds a bit stalker-ish.

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1 hour ago, jagsfan57 said:

You are right, past posts have been critical of TJF, primarily because it seemed to me action was too slow or too late. I am now seeing that the current regime is intent in seeing the destruction of PTFC. I think that opportunities were missed to make more visible demonstrations eg ICT televised game at Firhill. However, TJF have a different strategy, which I hope is successful. I am now at the stage of swithering whether to join TJF, but this type of post, which seems to me inappropriate at the moment, puts me off again.

I "swithered" for months, but finally joined TJF yesterday. Numbers required here. Your club needs you.

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2 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said:

 

Nobody asked.

Victor did. And are you saying TJF don’t want new members ? Some fans still need persuading to join TJF, so even although their communications and professionalism have been exemplary in the past, doesn’t mean that can be complacent.

 

2 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said:

 

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With all this talk of TJF, I had a look at the website. Very impressive, good job folks. And that stadium on the home page looks fantastic, must be worth at least £15m. Seriously though, hope things improve soon on all fronts. Saturday would be a good day to get the bandwagon rolling again. 

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2 hours ago, archie guevara said:

Is James Cairney only allowed a limited number of articles in the Glasgow Times? He's been quiet for a while. Maybe waiting to see what happens at the game tomorrow. 

Had a good chat with him in the pie queue at the Dundee game. Nothing sinister just been on a holiday.

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3 hours ago, archie guevara said:

Is James Cairney only allowed a limited number of articles in the Glasgow Times? He's been quiet for a while. Maybe waiting to see what happens at the game tomorrow. 

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23135005.ian-mccall-insists-partick-thistle-can-still-win-championship/

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1 hour ago, jagsfan57 said:

Victor did. And are you saying TJF don’t want new members ? Some fans still need persuading to join TJF, so even although their communications and professionalism have been exemplary in the past, doesn’t mean that can be complacent.

 

Quote

What could/should TJF have done differently, in your view?

No he didn't.

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3 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

Victor did. And are you saying TJF don’t want new members ? Some fans still need persuading to join TJF, so even although their communications and professionalism have been exemplary in the past, doesn’t mean that can be complacent.

 

I would say complacency is not joining TJF when the future of the club is at stake. I can't understand why anyone who is remotely engaged would not be signed up at this point. 

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17 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

Victor did. And are you saying TJF don’t want new members ? Some fans still need persuading to join TJF, so even although their communications and professionalism have been exemplary in the past, doesn’t mean that can be complacent.

 

Without wishing to drag out this discussion - I didn't ask you whether you had joined TJF or planned to (and I'm quite surprised that a post from a random stranger on P&B would sway you either way on doing so).  I asked you what you thought they had done wrong and your answer was that they should have organised a protest at a televised match. (I remember in the past you also complained that they didn't put out a message mourning QE2). 

IMO, they are not there to virtue signal or to organise protests which the board would immediately use to claim they are undermining the club.  They should focus on continuing to demonstrate that they are competent, transparent, have an in-depth understanding of the club and how real fan ownership would work, and be ready to take up the shareholding if/when the board realises that what they have done is untenable.  Which is exactly what TJF are doing.

Edited by VictorOnopko
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2 hours ago, VictorOnopko said:

Without wishing to drag out this discussion - I didn't ask you whether you had joined TJF or planned to (and I'm quite surprised that a post from a random stranger on P&B would sway you either way on doing so).  I asked you what you thought they had done wrong and your answer was that they should have organised a protest at a televised match. (I remember in the past you also complained that they didn't put out a message mourning QE2). 

IMO, they are not there to virtue signal or to organise protests which the board would immediately use to claim they are undermining the club.  They should focus on continuing to demonstrate that they are competent, transparent, have an in-depth understanding of the club and how real fan ownership would work, and be ready to take up the shareholding if/when the board realises that what they have done is untenable.  Which is exactly what TJF are doing.

Discussions often take twists and turns as you have just demonstrated by referencing QE2 which doesn’t seem relevant now. Ad Lib isn’t a random stranger. He is a TJF board member and their statements will sway people to become members or not. I don’t believe I said organise a protest. But I accept that TJF have a different strategy, which, if your last section is correct seems to be just wait until the current regime have had enough. I will need to have another read through the TJF literature, but I think they need to have some other action plan(not demonstrations),to pressurise the current board and trustees to change course before I join up.

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On 18/11/2022 at 12:13, jagsfan57 said:

You are right, past posts have been critical of TJF, primarily because it seemed to me action was too slow or too late. I am now seeing that the current regime is intent in seeing the destruction of PTFC. I think that opportunities were missed to make more visible demonstrations eg ICT televised game at Firhill. However, TJF have a different strategy, which I hope is successful. I am now at the stage of swithering whether to join TJF, but this type of post, which seems to me inappropriate at the moment, puts me off again.

So you wanted a demonstration and were disappointed that it didn't happen?

4 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

Discussions often take twists and turns as you have just demonstrated by referencing QE2 which doesn’t seem relevant now. Ad Lib isn’t a random stranger. He is a TJF board member and their statements will sway people to become members or not. I don’t believe I said organise a protest. But I accept that TJF have a different strategy, which, if your last section is correct seems to be just wait until the current regime have had enough. I will need to have another read through the TJF literature, but I think they need to have some other action plan(not demonstrations),to pressurise the current board and trustees to change course before I join up.

So you now don't want a demonstration, although you did before? 

Whatever.  Join or don't join.  You could always tell us all what should be in this "action plan".  I am just a paying member of TJF, not directly involved in any way - but I know they are open to feedback and I imagine (unlike the Trust) they will respond to messages and suggestions if you want to engage with them rather than making very vague criticisms here. 

You were also replying to my post, so understandably I thought your comment that "this type of post" puts you off joining TJF was about what I said, not Ad Lib.

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1 hour ago, VictorOnopko said:

So you wanted a demonstration and were disappointed that it didn't happen?

So you now don't want a demonstration, although you did before? 

Whatever.  Join or don't join.  You could always tell us all what should be in this "action plan".  I am just a paying member of TJF, not directly involved in any way - but I know they are open to feedback and I imagine (unlike the Trust) they will respond to messages and suggestions if you want to engage with them rather than making very vague criticisms here. 

You were also replying to my post, so understandably I thought your comment that "this type of post" puts you off joining TJF was about what I said, not Ad Lib.

Whether I join is up to TJF to persuade me. I am not criticising them. I am just not sure that giving them £10.00 a month or whatever is worth it. And you obviously have no argument to persuade me. 
Disappointed ? - I didn’t say I was disappointed. I said I thought they missed an opportunity. 

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19 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

Whether I join is up to TJF to persuade me. I am not criticising them. I am just not sure that giving them £10.00 a month or whatever is worth it. And you obviously have no argument to persuade me. 
Disappointed ? - I didn’t say I was disappointed. I said I thought they missed an opportunity. 

While the main membership rate is £10 per month there is also a £5 per month concessionary option and an introductory rate of £1 per month valid for the first 12 months.

In terms of the positive reasons to join TJF I would emphasise the following:

(a) we are the largest members organisation the Thistle support has ever pulled together

(b) our capacity to fundraise significantly outstrips any other Thistle fan body (we bring in about £85k annualised equivalent in membership subs, donations and Thistle Pins)

(c) we advocate, very publicly and relentlessly, a form of fan ownership that would give the fans genuine influence over the really important decisions affecting the future of our club

(d) we bring together Thistle fans in contexts other than just Firhill to enjoy each other’s company and to build a stronger Jags community both in and around Glasgow and further afield

(e) we help other parts of the Jags community financially and through raising their profile. We made a substantial donation to Jags For Good’s Winter Energy Fund and have sponsored two Thistle Women’s games this season, encouraging our members to try out games at Petershill.

(f) we are genuinely engaged with the Thistle support: we proactively seek our members’ views, listen to those of all Thistle fans, living our values of democracy and accountability

(g) we do our bit to educate and inform Thistle fans about the fundamentals of the club they support. Fan ownership is about a culture of responsibility and for the fans to make a success of it, they need to understand how the club is run and funded, and what the key challenges are

(h) uniting the Thistle support in the medium term will only be possible if the Club and Trust reach out an olive branch to TJF and actually offer something serious we can all work for. The more members TJF has, the clearer it will be that’s what the Club and Trust will have to do, and the sooner that might happen.

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3 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

While the main membership rate is £10 per month there is also a £5 per month concessionary option and an introductory rate of £1 per month valid for the first 12 months.

In terms of the positive reasons to join TJF I would emphasise the following:

(a) we are the largest members organisation the Thistle support has ever pulled together

(b) our capacity to fundraise significantly outstrips any other Thistle fan body (we bring in about £85k annualised equivalent in membership subs, donations and Thistle Pins)

(c) we advocate, very publicly and relentlessly, a form of fan ownership that would give the fans genuine influence over the really important decisions affecting the future of our club

(d) we bring together Thistle fans in contexts other than just Firhill to enjoy each other’s company and to build a stronger Jags community both in and around Glasgow and further afield

(e) we help other parts of the Jags community financially and through raising their profile. We made a substantial donation to Jags For Good’s Winter Energy Fund and have sponsored two Thistle Women’s games this season, encouraging our members to try out games at Petershill.

(f) we are genuinely engaged with the Thistle support: we proactively seek our members’ views, listen to those of all Thistle fans, living our values of democracy and accountability

(g) we do our bit to educate and inform Thistle fans about the fundamentals of the club they support. Fan ownership is about a culture of responsibility and for the fans to make a success of it, they need to understand how the club is run and funded, and what the key challenges are

(h) uniting the Thistle support in the medium term will only be possible if the Club and Trust reach out an olive branch to TJF and actually offer something serious we can all work for. The more members TJF has, the clearer it will be that’s what the Club and Trust will have to do, and the sooner that might happen.

Thanks for the feedback. It is very helpful. I am not sure I understand (h). What happens if no olive branch is extended ? Why do you think more TJF members will mean that an olive branch needs to be extended ? Is there some number that changes TJF’s plan ? 
 

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3 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

Thanks for the feedback. It is very helpful. I am not sure I understand (h). What happens if no olive branch is extended ? Why do you think more TJF members will mean that an olive branch needs to be extended ? Is there some number that changes TJF’s plan ? 
 

Never underestimate the power of football fans and their ability to affect change through protest, pressure, and if necessary their wallets and the law.

The European Superleague was a done deal until it wasn’t. The same with the abuse of power by owners at Cardiff City.

If the Club and Trust show no willingness to work with TJF then they are spitting in the faces of more than 900 of their customers.

A business like Partick Thistle can either respect its customers or find itself very quickly out of business. If you think the fans should sit back and take this contemptuous treatment, fair enough. But more than 900 of us think a proper fan owned club is worth fighting for. And the only way we get to that outcome is to make clear we will make life very bloody difficult for them if they don’t change their act.

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14 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

Never underestimate the power of football fans and their ability to affect change through protest, pressure, and if necessary their wallets and the law.

The European Superleague was a done deal until it wasn’t. The same with the abuse of power by owners at Cardiff City.

If the Club and Trust show no willingness to work with TJF then they are spitting in the faces of more than 900 of their customers.

A business like Partick Thistle can either respect its customers or find itself very quickly out of business. If you think the fans should sit back and take this contemptuous treatment, fair enough. But more than 900 of us think a proper fan owned club is worth fighting for. And the only way we get to that outcome is to make clear we will make life very bloody difficult for them if they don’t change their act.

Thanks again.

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I can't think of one viable football club that doesn't have a) an active beneficiary or b) regular contributions from fan ownership. Partick Thistle currently have neither. The sooner the PTFC Trust realise this the shallower the hole we'll have to dig ourselves out of.

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1 hour ago, Johnny Worm said:

Fan ownership is great if you're a Bundesliga team with 80000 season ticket holders - otherwise avoid

Seems to be going really well for Hearts, Motherwell, St Mirren and others who do not play in the Bundesliga nor have anywhere near 80000 season ticket holders.

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