The Partick Thistle thread

[SpoonTon]

6 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

 

I may be missing something but it says a wee bit further down that these are recommendations?

Northern Ireland are completing their season. If they can why can’t we ?

 

It means that national associations can allow such things to happen, but it's up to them to decide on some of the details. For example, while the new transfer window can be allowed to open before the end of the season, leagues like the English Premier League will not be doing so (they can choose a shorter period within the larger FIFA window). It will be up to individual leagues to decide how they work within the recommendations. There's nothing in there to allow teams to change their squads before the end of the transfer window. Timo Werner is an example. It's expected that he will join Chelsea when the window reopens in England and be able to play for them as soon as they start the 20/21 season - but he will not be allowed to play in Chelsea's 19/20 Champions League campaign. Which is a loss for Leipzig RB but not a gain for Chelsea. Similarly, Ross Docherty could move from Ayr to Thistle, but they would have to wait for the 20/21 season to play him. Scottish Championship clubs would not be able to cope with the type of squad losses they would face without being able to register new players. 

Northern Irish clubs want to finish their campaign, but I don't know if they will be able to - and they're certainly not going to be able to wait until October. 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/board-update-17th-june-2020/

"Heart of Midlothian Football Club and Partick Thistle Football Club have today lodged a petition with the Court of Session to challenge the unfair and unjust decision of the SPFL to enforce relegations, to the extreme detriment of those clubs affected.

Unfortunately, Scottish football has been unable to pull together at this time of national crisis to obviate the need for this legal challenge. We desperately hoped Court action would not be necessary, but we were left with no other option.

For clarity, our petition does not seek to set aside or unravel the fee payments made to clubs, nor indeed the declaration of Champions, or the nomination of clubs who will participate in European competition.

Instead, the petition primarily seeks to reduce the unfair resolution insofar as it changed the SPFL’s rules on promotion and relegation. If that remedy is not granted by the Court, we seek, in the alternative, awards of compensation relative to the significant financial loss which the unfair relegations will visit upon us.

As matters stand, we have not asked the Court to grant an interim interdict which would prevent next season commencing on 1 August. However, we have to reserve our right to do so in the event that becomes necessary.

We would emphasise instead that we have no wish to disrupt Scottish football but rather our aim is to have the proceedings litigated to a conclusion as quickly as possible. In that regard, the Court has today granted our motion to reduce the normal period within which the SPFL must answer our petition to 7 days.

No further comment will be made by either Club at this time."

I mean this shit is above my pay grade as they might say in old gritty American cop drama speak, but I would guess a court wouldn't touch the league positions as determined by the member vote so they're going to stand. Compensation in some fixed monetary amount might be an easier legal argument to construct? 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely

[JudgeMudge]

Loving these daily statements. Brings an excitement to lockdown.

[Sting777]

2 minutes ago, JudgeMudge said:

Loving these daily statements. Brings an excitement to lockdown.

I love the...we reserve the right to do so...parts!  No doubt we will have the usual suspects on, frothing at the mouth....lol

[JagsCG]

So basically confirming, what most of us thought. We'll see what the SPFL's response is then
 

[JudgeMudge]

I love the...we reserve the right to do so...parts!  No doubt we will have the usual suspects on, frothing at the mouth....lol

Give it five minutes.

[Ad Lib]

Obviously we will have to see the written cases when they are published, but this action seems to be based on a fundamentally ill-conceived notion as to what the SPFL resolution did in legal terms.

Insofar as it “changed the rules” on relegation and promotion it did so in relation to the *playoffs* and not with regard to the automatic relegation and promotion places.

The *rules* on automatic promotion and relegation were completely unaffected; only the rules about how positions were arrived at differ for automatically promoted and relegated clubs. You cannot challenge *legally* the decision to relegate based on those positions without challenging the positions themselves. By necessary implication you are rejecting the basis for awarding the championship and European places. You can’t just pick and choose which bits of the resolution should stand.

The legal complaint is therefore not that the rules were changed, but that they were changed in a way that was unfavourable to Hearts and Thistle. That’s a non starter.

This is quite separate from whether the rules, as a matter of sporting principle, ought to have been changed in that way. In my view they clearly shouldn’t. But this litigation is a terrible way to make that point.

[Sting777]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-partick-thistle-declare-war-22208766

[Ralstonite]

If football does go ahead with no spectators permitted inside the stadium, it will be business as usual for you guys, eh? 

Now get doooooooooon. 

[colliedug]

If relegation is not reversed a compensation fee in the region of £2 million would be looked for I believe, now how would that affect member clubs as this money will have to be paid by all member clubs under the SPFL?

[itzdrk]

1 hour ago, Ad Lib said:

Obviously we will have to see the written cases when they are published, but this action seems to be based on a fundamentally ill-conceived notion as to what the SPFL resolution did in legal terms.

Insofar as it “changed the rules” on relegation and promotion it did so in relation to the *playoffs* and not with regard to the automatic relegation and promotion places.

The *rules* on automatic promotion and relegation were completely unaffected; only the rules about how positions were arrived at differ for automatically promoted and relegated clubs. You cannot challenge *legally* the decision to relegate based on those positions without challenging the positions themselves. By necessary implication you are rejecting the basis for awarding the championship and European places. You can’t just pick and choose which bits of the resolution should stand.

The legal complaint is therefore not that the rules were changed, but that they were changed in a way that was unfavourable to Hearts and Thistle. That’s a non starter.

This is quite separate from whether the rules, as a matter of sporting principle, ought to have been changed in that way. In my view they clearly shouldn’t. But this litigation is a terrible way to make that point.

I was trying to work out what rule had been changed and my thinking was solely based on relegation and the season ending.  Thanks, forgot they would need to change something for the playoffs. 

[Ad Lib]

38 minutes ago, colliedug said:

If relegation is not reversed a compensation fee in the region of £2 million would be looked for I believe, now how would that affect member clubs as this money will have to be paid by all member clubs under the SPFL?

The idea that Hearts and Thistle would be due about as much money as the resolution itself “released” for the entire Premier League is fanciful.

[knighthawk]

Another statement.. snooze!

Let’s be honest here. We can all moan & point the finger at the SPFL & other clubs. We are our own worst enemy. We only won 6 games, horrific Stats.

Really, the real reason we are in this mess is purely down to miss management & incompetence from the board down.

Few seasons ago we where high flying top 6 club now we are in league 1, fighting to stay afloat & using every tactic to grip onto survival. If this tactic doesn’t work it will be embarrassing. 1 not being able to do it on the pitch, & 2 not being able to do it on a legal front . It’s just got disaster written all over it.

So to sum up for the fans that have yellow and red tinted glasses ill give you a run down.

Traditionally clubs that chop & change managers & have unstable boards tend not to do well on football. However, Thistle take this to another level. Within the space of 11 months we have had 3 mangers, BOD has changed (Iv lost count how many time). Then during this time & weeks before a season is about to launch the BOD decides to chop a managers budget, expecting miracles. That hardly shouts ambition.

We then bring a hopeless yo-yo manger with more downs than ups. Gets rid of the video, stats and sports guys because he doesn’t believe in it. If that doesn’t shout incompetence then I don’t know what does. All the top leagues & teams have these specialists in place. But no not thistle, we are unique. Uniquely s**** . My question. who the bloody heel allowed this to happen & who authorised it? 

Next: The same manger rips apart a squad who a few months before when manger of Ayr said thistle should be in a higher position & that current squad was good enough. Then rebuilds the squad In the January window picks up a total of 4 points with a win ratio of F*** all & gets absolutely pumped in the Cup Semi-Final from a league 1 team. Who coincidentally replaces us in the championship. 

Side note: McCall had a better Win record with the duds Caldwell signed.

Next..... We have a Chief executive who is so far off the pace he can’t even see the finishing line, in fact the finish line doesn’t even exist. Gerry is clearly clueless for any job in football management. His record speaks for its self. Under his tender we have had 1 narrow escape form relegation & now 1 relegation. Sanctioned the signings of 3 squads of dudes. Brought back a sacked manager as an assistant less than 11 months following the sacking. 

What is his thought process behind this. Clearly Gerry makes these decisions to protect his incompetence & please fans. Throwing S**** at the walls and hopping it sticks sounds like the plan. 

Our goalkeeping coach.... under him, this season, the keepers couldn’t catch the cold. Fox came to us after winning the league and challenge league cup. Over night he turned into the worst keeper in the league. That just doesn’t happen. That’s just bad coaching. More interested in twitter. Tragic. 

All the players are just as guilty and a disgrace to thistle. Tam Oware for example. Came to use acting like Virgil van Dijk. But played more like Dick Van Dyke, no wait more like Dick Turpin, stealing a wage. 

Funny enough that’s been the story over the last few season. Decent players coming to us then turn up like dog S****. Something must be wrong with the training & coaching. Or is it just the thistle effect.

Next has anyone noticed that our physio is absolutely horrendous. I’d go as far as to say we had the worst injury record in the league. Probably cost us on the long run.
Before anyone mentions, that’s not a Physio’s job. Staff profile clearly states to implement injury prevention and recovery. Looking back the only thing she prevented was points. 

Looking back on last year unlike others we didn’t have any injury crisis at the start of the season. Once GC was booted (thank F***) we had an injury crisis. What happened? Did GC voodoo us.  I recall at one point we couldn’t even fill the bench over October/November. It was a new player injured each week. Patch up work here and there. Scal was never off jag zone with updates.

But I guess that’s what happens when you also get a guy from the academy who’s used to dealing with kids as the first team fitness coach. On that note, was it just me or did our players looked lethargic and unfit. The games v Arbroath sticks in my mind. They ran over the top of us on a number of occasions. Being as s**** as we where, you would expect at the very least, players to run around and keep up with part timers. That again didn’t happen.

I feel for Archie his name is in tatters, some great seasons with thistle, but 2 religions on his CV. 

Overall, when you employ clowns the circus comes to town and the circus unfortunately has been parked at Firhill road for a long long time. We are a laughing stalk, if we are not careful Queens Park could be the next club in Glasgow.

Majority of you will disagree, think I’m being negative, and will be unhappy with the comments. But looking at it in a systematic way & taking the emotion out of it. Thistle are on the downward spiral we have been for a while. Until we get the idiots away from the club I can only see it getting worse. I for one are just just sick of this utter P*** & incompetence, it goes from top to bottom.

Our saving grace is the youth system. 

[JagsCG]

18 minutes ago, knighthawk said:

Another statement.. snooze!

Let’s be honest here. We can all moan & point the finger at the SPFL & other clubs. We are our own worst enemy. We only won 6 games, horrific Stats.

Really, the real reason we are in this mess is purely down to miss management & incompetence from the board down.

Few seasons ago we where high flying top 6 club now we are in league 1, fighting to stay afloat & using every tactic to grip onto survival. If this tactic doesn’t work it will be embarrassing. 1 not being able to do it on the pitch, & 2 not being able to do it on a legal front . It’s just got disaster written all over it.

So to sum up for the fans that have yellow and red tinted glasses ill give you a run down.

Traditionally clubs that chop & change managers & have unstable boards tend not to do well on football. However, Thistle take this to another level. Within the space of 11 months we have had 3 mangers, BOD has changed (Iv lost count how many time). Then during this time & weeks before a season is about to launch the BOD decides to chop a managers budget, expecting miracles. That hardly shouts ambition.

We then bring a hopeless yo-yo manger with more downs than ups. Gets rid of the video, stats and sports guys because he doesn’t believe in it. If that doesn’t shout incompetence then I don’t know what does. All the top leagues & teams have these specialists in place. But no not thistle, we are unique. Uniquely s**** . My question. who the bloody heel allowed this to happen & who authorised it? 

Next: The same manger rips apart a squad who a few months before when manger of Ayr said thistle should be in a higher position & that current squad was good enough. Then rebuilds the squad In the January window picks up a total of 4 points with a win ratio of F*** all & gets absolutely pumped in the Cup Semi-Final from a league 1 team. Who coincidentally replaces us in the championship. 

Side note: McCall had a better Win record with the duds Caldwell signed.

Next..... We have a Chief executive who is so far off the pace he can’t even see the finishing line, in fact the finish line doesn’t even exist. Gerry is clearly clueless for any job in football management. His record speaks for its self. Under his tender we have had 1 narrow escape form relegation & now 1 relegation. Sanctioned the signings of 3 squads of dudes. Brought back a sacked manager as an assistant less than 11 months following the sacking. 

What is his thought process behind this. Clearly Gerry makes these decisions to protect his incompetence & please fans. Throwing S**** at the walls and hopping it sticks sounds like the plan. 

Our goalkeeping coach.... under him, this season, the keepers couldn’t catch the cold. Fox came to us after winning the league and challenge league cup. Over night he turned into the worst keeper in the league. That just doesn’t happen. That’s just bad coaching. More interested in twitter. Tragic. 

All the players are just as guilty and a disgrace to thistle. Tam Oware for example. Came to use acting like Virgil van Dijk. But played more like Dick Van Dyke, no wait more like Dick Turpin, stealing a wage. 

Funny enough that’s been the story over the last few season. Decent players coming to us then turn up like dog S****. Something must be wrong with the training & coaching. Or is it just the thistle effect.

Next has anyone noticed that our physio is absolutely horrendous. I’d go as far as to say we had the worst injury record in the league. Probably cost us on the long run.
Before anyone mentions, that’s not a Physio’s job. Staff profile clearly states to implement injury prevention and recovery. Looking back the only thing she prevented was points. 

Looking back on last year unlike others we didn’t have any injury crisis at the start of the season. Once GC was booted (thank F***) we had an injury crisis. What happened? Did GC voodoo us.  I recall at one point we couldn’t even fill the bench over October/November. It was a new player injured each week. Patch up work here and there. Scal was never off jag zone with updates.

But I guess that’s what happens when you also get a guy from the academy who’s used to dealing with kids as the first team fitness coach. On that note, was it just me or did our players looked lethargic and unfit. The games v Arbroath sticks in my mind. They ran over the top of us on a number of occasions. Being as s**** as we where, you would expect at the very least, players to run around and keep up with part timers. That again didn’t happen.

I feel for Archie his name is in tatters, some great seasons with thistle, but 2 religions on his CV. 

Overall, when you employ clowns the circus comes to town and the circus unfortunately has been parked at Firhill road for a long long time. We are a laughing stalk, if we are not careful Queens Park could be the next club in Glasgow.

Majority of you will disagree, think I’m being negative, and will be unhappy with the comments. But looking at it in a systematic way & taking the emotion out of it. Thistle are on the downward spiral we have been for a while. Until we get the idiots away from the club I can only see it getting worse. I for one are just just sick of this utter P*** & incompetence, it goes from top to bottom.

Our saving grace is the youth system. 

1. No one can dispute  that the reason we are in this mess, is due to 3 years of miss-management, poor decisions, poor players, and shocking performances/results. The actual relegation is a bit of a different story, but there's no doubt had we not been bad, we wouldn't have been bottom. 

2. In reference to all the stats, sports specialist, video, powerpoint stuff, that was Caldwell's philosophy, and it didn't work. McCall got Ayr promoted and made them a top team in the Championship without all that type of new found stuff, so that''s not a massive issue. I doubt there's many teams in our league that use all that philosophical stuff, especially manages like Dick Campbell and John Robertson, We aren't Man City. 

3. McCall was wrong to suggest that squad was good enough when he came in, only on paper did it look good, but on grass they were horrific, in fairness to him. Everyone that hadn't seen us play, said we had a good team, and were in a "false position" in the league. When McCall came in he hinted right away, he knew the squad wasn't that good, referenced it being unbalanced etc. McCall gambled on trying to rebuild in January, it didn't pay off, they only started to gel in the last 3 games before lockdown, 2 of which we should have won.

4. Agree about Gerry, his record as Chief Exec is horrendous, might be wrong but did someone (maybe Caldwell) not once quote him as being one of the best things about the club (referring to how good he was at his job), sure someone said that. 

5. Kenny Arthur is a club legend, but when a goalkeeper continues to make the same errors or have the same faults week on week (I.e Fox and his line, or Fox and corners), you have to ask questions of his coaching. We haven't had a real solid keeper since Cerny, we've had duds, like Bell, and Lennox. Sneddon hasn't had too many chances, I was never keen on Conor Hazard, and Fox came having previously been the best keeper in the league, and got 1 clean sheet the whole season. 

6. Tam O'Ware was a far better player, when he was out injured than he has been when played, its that old thing of being a better player when you aren't playing, a lot was expected of him, failed to deliver, like much of the team this season. Only one with some real grit about them was Brian Graham. 

7. Given the fact we actually signed a guy injured, (Mitch Austin) it comes as no surprise to me that we had different players out injured every week, which helps no team. 

8. Archie's last few seasons involved in the club, have been a disaster, his name has certainly been tainted, if he stays as Assistant Manager, it's up to him to rebuild his name again, by that I mean winning the league next season. 

9. You are being negative, but rightly so, it's hard to be positive about certain aspects of the club. However, I do feel like the Only way is Up, and hopefully with some stability in the club, we can start going on an upward spiral as oppose to the downwards one you speak about. I just want to get the new season underway, and start winning some football games, that needs to be our focus (all depends on whether we actually have a league to play in). 

10. Not sure about the youth system, would love to see a few more make successes of it, but there haven't been too many that have become first team regulars, in the last couple seasons except Penrice. Even Fitzpatrick didn't play too much, before he moved to Norwich. 

 

All in all, you've made a few good points about the club over recent years, all these wrongs must be put right, sooner rather than later. 

[dave.j]

1 hour ago, Ad Lib said:

The idea that Hearts and Thistle would be due about as much money as the resolution itself “released” for the entire Premier League is fanciful.

They are completely unrelated. One is prize money the other is loss of earnings.

If anything it highlights how little prize money there is in the game 

[Ad Lib]

2 minutes ago, dave.j said:

They are completely unrelated. One is prize money the other is loss of earnings.

If anything it highlights how little prize money there is in the game 

The point is it’s orders of magnitude too high. It’s not the SPFL’s fault that Thistle’s turnover might be down £2 million, just for the sake of argument.

It’s the pandemic.

[dave.j]

1 hour ago, knighthawk said:

Another statement.. snooze!

Let’s be honest here. We can all moan & point the finger at the SPFL & other clubs. We are our own worst enemy. We only won 6 games, horrific Stats.

Really, the real reason we are in this mess is purely down to miss management & incompetence from the board down.

Few seasons ago we where high flying top 6 club now we are in league 1, fighting to stay afloat & using every tactic to grip onto survival. If this tactic doesn’t work it will be embarrassing. 1 not being able to do it on the pitch, & 2 not being able to do it on a legal front . It’s just got disaster written all over it.

So to sum up for the fans that have yellow and red tinted glasses ill give you a run down.

Traditionally clubs that chop & change managers & have unstable boards tend not to do well on football. However, Thistle take this to another level. Within the space of 11 months we have had 3 mangers, BOD has changed (Iv lost count how many time). Then during this time & weeks before a season is about to launch the BOD decides to chop a managers budget, expecting miracles. That hardly shouts ambition.

We then bring a hopeless yo-yo manger with more downs than ups. Gets rid of the video, stats and sports guys because he doesn’t believe in it. If that doesn’t shout incompetence then I don’t know what does. All the top leagues & teams have these specialists in place. But no not thistle, we are unique. Uniquely s**** . My question. who the bloody heel allowed this to happen & who authorised it? 

Next: The same manger rips apart a squad who a few months before when manger of Ayr said thistle should be in a higher position & that current squad was good enough. Then rebuilds the squad In the January window picks up a total of 4 points with a win ratio of F*** all & gets absolutely pumped in the Cup Semi-Final from a league 1 team. Who coincidentally replaces us in the championship. 

Side note: McCall had a better Win record with the duds Caldwell signed.

Next..... We have a Chief executive who is so far off the pace he can’t even see the finishing line, in fact the finish line doesn’t even exist. Gerry is clearly clueless for any job in football management. His record speaks for its self. Under his tender we have had 1 narrow escape form relegation & now 1 relegation. Sanctioned the signings of 3 squads of dudes. Brought back a sacked manager as an assistant less than 11 months following the sacking. 

What is his thought process behind this. Clearly Gerry makes these decisions to protect his incompetence & please fans. Throwing S**** at the walls and hopping it sticks sounds like the plan. 

Our goalkeeping coach.... under him, this season, the keepers couldn’t catch the cold. Fox came to us after winning the league and challenge league cup. Over night he turned into the worst keeper in the league. That just doesn’t happen. That’s just bad coaching. More interested in twitter. Tragic. 

All the players are just as guilty and a disgrace to thistle. Tam Oware for example. Came to use acting like Virgil van Dijk. But played more like Dick Van Dyke, no wait more like Dick Turpin, stealing a wage. 

Funny enough that’s been the story over the last few season. Decent players coming to us then turn up like dog S****. Something must be wrong with the training & coaching. Or is it just the thistle effect.

Next has anyone noticed that our physio is absolutely horrendous. I’d go as far as to say we had the worst injury record in the league. Probably cost us on the long run.
Before anyone mentions, that’s not a Physio’s job. Staff profile clearly states to implement injury prevention and recovery. Looking back the only thing she prevented was points. 

Looking back on last year unlike others we didn’t have any injury crisis at the start of the season. Once GC was booted (thank F***) we had an injury crisis. What happened? Did GC voodoo us.  I recall at one point we couldn’t even fill the bench over October/November. It was a new player injured each week. Patch up work here and there. Scal was never off jag zone with updates.

But I guess that’s what happens when you also get a guy from the academy who’s used to dealing with kids as the first team fitness coach. On that note, was it just me or did our players looked lethargic and unfit. The games v Arbroath sticks in my mind. They ran over the top of us on a number of occasions. Being as s**** as we where, you would expect at the very least, players to run around and keep up with part timers. That again didn’t happen.

I feel for Archie his name is in tatters, some great seasons with thistle, but 2 religions on his CV. 

Overall, when you employ clowns the circus comes to town and the circus unfortunately has been parked at Firhill road for a long long time. We are a laughing stalk, if we are not careful Queens Park could be the next club in Glasgow.

Majority of you will disagree, think I’m being negative, and will be unhappy with the comments. But looking at it in a systematic way & taking the emotion out of it. Thistle are on the downward spiral we have been for a while. Until we get the idiots away from the club I can only see it getting worse. I for one are just just sick of this utter P*** & incompetence, it goes from top to bottom.

Our saving grace is the youth system. 

Let's be honest. Everything going on is a convenient distraction from the above, facts of the matter. It's incredible the amount of soft as shite Thistle fans who come out with... We need to come together.... We need to move on... Put the past behind us... Or some other non descript cuddle phrase. Thistle fans are our own worst enemy. 

[dave.j]

9 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

The point is it’s orders of magnitude too high. It’s not the SPFL’s fault that Thistle’s turnover might be down £2 million, just for the sake of argument.

It’s the pandemic.

The pandemic didn't decide points per game. The pandemic didn't decide to finish the season early. The pandemic didn't decide there had to be relegation for 3 teams but not for the worst team in Scotland. 

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, dave.j said:

The pandemic didn't decide there had to be relegation for 3 teams but not for the worst team in Scotland. 

Partick fans - "WE COULDV'E FINISHED 9TH AND AVOIDED RELEGATION BECAUSE WE'D HAVE BEEN OUT THE AUTOMATIC RELEGATION SPOTS"

Also Partick fans - "WHY WERE BRECHIN NOT RELEGATED DESPITE NOT BEING IN AN AUTOMATIC RELEGATION SPOT"

[Ad Lib]

8 minutes ago, dave.j said:

The pandemic didn't decide points per game. The pandemic didn't decide to finish the season early. The pandemic didn't decide there had to be relegation for 3 teams but not for the worst team in Scotland. 

No, the Clubs did. Collectively. In accordance with the Articles of Association and the rules of the SPFL.