The Partick Thistle thread

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

This legal challenge is clearly going to fail, but if it doesn't Return To Forum Day is going to be some laugh.

I'm collecting GIFs for the occasion:

 

[JagsCG]

21 minutes ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

Nothing to do with having the least number of points or being bottom of the league all season then

Think you are completely and probably deliberately missing the point. 

[Hammer Jag]

He’s just another painfully thick yokel.

[GrahamJags]

Some absolutely ridiculous posts on here in the last few days. Thistle were bottom of the league when the season was voted to be ended prematurely, after (more than) a season of getting beat most weeks. Clubs voted in their best interests and anyone who suggests that we wouldn’t have done the same is completely off the mark. The incompetence of the SPFL has (again) resulted in Thistle being fucked over, but the truth is that we should never have been anywhere near the bottom of the Championship come the end of March. The serial moaners about how Morton and Ayr fans are “obsessed” and laughing at us are precisely those who would be straight on their threads if the shoe was on the other foot.

The only thing more embarrassing than our final league position is the virtue-signalling statements from the chairman who has overseen some of the worst results in the club’s history (given that we had finished 6th in the top division when she took over). The appointment of, and subsequent duration of employment given to Gary Caldwell was an abomination, and while at the time appointing Ian McCall seemed to be a good move, we managed to balls it up in true Thistle style by shoehorning Archie, already having more than played his part in recent failures, into the management team (two assistant managers?) made little to no sense. McCall has unquestionably been a failure, especially since January when he brought in “his” players and persisting with under-performing players. Not winning a game for three months is relegation form whichever way you look at it. Jacqui Low and Gerry Britton have been the two constants over this period and have completely ruined the club with their constant incompetence and cluelessness over the running of a professional football club. Those two are the primary reason that Partick Thistle will be playing League 1 football next season, as things stand anyway.

Ridiculous Tory statements aside, if in fact the club being given “free” money to pursue legal action then it would be stupid not to. At this point it is essentially a no-lose situation (for Thistle anyway). What I am interested to find out now is what the end goal is - are we looking to be compensated? League position reinstated? Reconstruction pushed through to an umpteenth vote?

[dave.j]

6 hours ago, JudgeMudge said:

You’re not taking enough account of how bad we were when he came in. Agree that it’s been a disappointing start, certainly not what people would’ve hoped for ... but he has to be given at least the first half of the next season.

I am taking that into account. Especially when he got a tune out them taking 9 from 12 in december, promptly cleared them out and went back to averaging 2 or 3 points from every 4 games, the way he had done up til the end of November. 

He took over, we were bottom. 21 games later. We were bottom. But hey, thank God he's a wonderful manager at getting teams out the 3rd tier, or at least so I keep getting told. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, itzdrk said:

One of my more serious posts on this website:

It would be very interesting to see what the actual case against the SPFL is, obviously only a select few will actually know just now.  With absolutely no knowledge of that and just witnessing what has been reported it's hard to see where the SPFL have wronged both parties.  Unless, of course, Hearts & Partick Thistle know something that we do not. 

The court will also be very careful with deciding to award compensation in regards to setting a precedent of relegated team's suing the league body every season across all Scottish sport, that itself might make it tough. 

 

 

I'd guess that Hearts being demoted to a shortened league season, and Partick into League One, whatever that situation is, would make them candidates for compensation. 

Relegation to these clubs cant be argued, but losses through relegation probably can due to the circumstances. 

I doubt it's nearly the amount Hearts are having their wee media pals claiming they can get though.

[SpoonTon]

On 15/06/2020 at 12:36, jagsfan57 said:

 

I think I said in the very 1st sentence what could have been done.

Why couldn’t the season be finished, even if it doesn’t restart till October. Than have only 1 restricted season of 18 games.
 

 

There are several reasons why this wasn't possible. Financially it would have been difficult in several ways, including having to honour season tickets in some way, but the main reason is that there was no way around the player registration issues. 

There is no way of keeping the squads the same until October. You can't hold players to their clubs beyond the end of their contract. You even have the difficult situations where, say, a player has signed a pre-contract agreement to join another club in the division - would changing clubs be possible again in the season without FIFA exemptions or would a player be trapped in limbo with several clubs losing players with no replacements? There will be players who hope to join a club in another division or another country by October - you can't hold them to the clubs, and the clubs can't sign replacements. A situation of allowing clubs to completely change squads would have been impossible. Apart from trying to budget for a short end of one season when you can't be sure which division you'd be in the following season, you'd need FIFA to agree to a bespoke player registration rules for Scottish clubs (which opens up a whole can of worms). It just isn't possible. June was the very latest the season could have been finished. 

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'd guess that Hearts being demoted to a shortened league season, and Partick into League One, whatever that situation is, would make them candidates for compensation. 

Relegation to these clubs cant be argued, but losses through relegation probably can due to the circumstances. 

I doubt it's nearly the amount Hearts are having their wee media pals claiming they can get though.

Not sure if Force majeure would apply, but I don't see how either team could expect other clubs to compensate them for the effects of Covid19.

[itzdrk]

9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'd guess that Hearts being demoted to a shortened league season, and Partick into League One, whatever that situation is, would make them candidates for compensation. 

Relegation to these clubs cant be argued, but losses through relegation probably can due to the circumstances. 

I doubt it's nearly the amount Hearts are having their wee media pals claiming they can get though.

I'd imagine the SPFL will offer to double the parachute payment for Hearts and advise that relegation to any other league doesn't come with such a payment.  Unless it is confirmed that League One may not go ahead then Partick should rightfully gain something from it. 

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

I'd imagine the SPFL will offer to double the parachute payment for Hearts and advise that relegation to any other league doesn't come with such a payment.  Unless it is confirmed that League One may not go ahead then Partick should rightfully gain something from it. 

Are you happy for Ayr to contribute to Hearts having a bigger budget next season?

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Not sure if Force majeure would apply, but I don't see how either team could expect other clubs to compensate them for the effects of Covid19.

It's just guesswork, but I reckon due to the circumstances of their relegation, and the fact theyll be in reduced seasons due to it, they could claim money from the SPFL.

The SPFL baord dont have money themselves so it will have to come from the clubs.

[jagsfan57]

There are several reasons why this wasn't possible. Financially it would have been difficult in several ways, including having to honour season tickets in some way, but the main reason is that there was no way around the player registration issues. 
There is no way of keeping the squads the same until October. You can't hold players to their clubs beyond the end of their contract. You even have the difficult situations where, say, a player has signed a pre-contract agreement to join another club in the division - would changing clubs be possible again in the season without FIFA exemptions or would a player be trapped in limbo with several clubs losing players with no replacements? There will be players who hope to join a club in another division or another country by October - you can't hold them to the clubs, and the clubs can't sign replacements. A situation of allowing clubs to completely change squads would have been impossible. Apart from trying to budget for a short end of one season when you can't be sure which division you'd be in the following season, you'd need FIFA to agree to a bespoke player registration rules for Scottish clubs (which opens up a whole can of worms). It just isn't possible. June was the very latest the season could have been finished. 

You have spent a lot of time on players and squads. What are clubs going to do now to get a squad ready for October. Players will need to be signed by end of August and they can’t be furloughed because the deadline for registering for furlough was last Wednesday.
Of course clubs can already change squads mid season during the January window. So for me that’s not a hurdle.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, itzdrk said:

I'd imagine the SPFL will offer to double the parachute payment for Hearts and advise that relegation to any other league doesn't come with such a payment.  Unless it is confirmed that League One may not go ahead then Partick should rightfully gain something from it. 

Give them a hat and a balloon.

[itzdrk]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Are you happy for Ayr to contribute to Hearts having a bigger budget next season?

No. 

[third lanark]

3 hours ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

Nothing to do with having the least number of points or being bottom of the league all season then

A Queen of the south fan casting this up. A club being bottom of the season most of the season has nothing to do with it unless they are bottom of the league after 36 games, you really are desperately clutching at straws

your club has been hanging about the bottom the last couple of seasons and let’s not kid ourselves you would have been down if the season carried on which shows how bad your club is and with your manager being kept on will be definite favourites for the drop next season 

[Virtual Insanity]

 

1 hour ago, itzdrk said:

Unless it is confirmed that League One may not go ahead then Partick should rightfully gain something from it. 

This is what it boils down to for me. I think it takes a massive brass neck for us or Hearts to be too upset when we've been so unrelentingly shite, but if League 1 is mothballed, then that's a huge change in circumstances from when the original vote was cast and I think would be the only way that we might have some sort of legal case against the SPFL.

Forgive me as I've not read most of the shite from all sides on this topic, but is there a fundamental reason against 12-10-10 for the Championship-L1-L2? 

[GiGi]

30 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

You have spent a lot of time on players and squads. What are clubs going to do now to get a squad ready for October. Players will need to be signed by end of August and they can’t be furloughed because the deadline for registering for furlough was last Wednesday.
Of course clubs can already change squads mid season during the January window. So for me that’s not a hurdle.

Ok, devil's advocate on this point - you've already had the summer and January to sort out a squad which we will probably agree was shit, so shouldn't have another opportunity for squad turnover and instead deal with the consequences of the players you signed.

[SpoonTon]

29 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

 

You have spent a lot of time on players and squads. What are clubs going to do now to get a squad ready for October. Players will need to be signed by end of August and they can’t be furloughed because the deadline for registering for furlough was last Wednesday.
Of course clubs can already change squads mid season during the January window. So for me that’s not a hurdle.

 

You can't have a third registration window in the same season. And even if you could, some players would be left in an impossible position having already played for two clubs. In any case, I don't see why FIFA would allow it.

The summer transfer window will be later than usual. Clubs will bring players out of furlough in time for a pre-season and will be able to sign new players based on a budget for the season ahead. You can't expect clubs and players to plan for 8 or 9 game contracts and then have to change again after being relegated or promoted. 

There was no way of restarting the season again in October. That was never going to happen. 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Virtual Insanity said:

 

This is what it boils down to for me. I think it takes a massive brass neck for us or Hearts to be too upset when we've been so unrelentingly shite, but if League 1 is mothballed, then that's a huge change in circumstances from when the original vote was cast and I think would be the only way that we might have some sort of legal case against the SPFL.

Forgive me as I've not read most of the shite from all sides on this topic, but is there a fundamental reason against 12-10-10 for the Championship-L1-L2? 

12-12-10-10 I think would be most people's preferred option, but L1 and L2 would probably vote against it for their own reasons. If there are no crowds allowed by October and it costs £5000 odd a game for players to be tested for games to go ahead behind closed doors, I doubt several of the Championship sides would want to go ahead, so it would be a matter of structuring a league for the willing and able remainder, so all would change. Hopefully that won't be the case.

[D'Jaffo]

12-12-10-10 I think would be most people's preferred option, but L1 and L2 would probably vote against it for their own reasons. If there are no crowds allowed by October and it costs £5000 odd a game for players to be tested for games to go ahead behind closed doors, I doubt several of the Championship sides would want to go ahead, so it would be a matter of structuring a league for the willing and able remainder, so all would change. Hopefully that won't be the case.

AFAIK the Championship clubs have agreed to start on the 17th of October regardless of fans not being allowed to games. I don’t think there will be any change to this now given the SPFL are now getting fixture lists ready for the top 2 divisions.

If Partick wanted a 12-12-10-10 set up then they should’ve tabled it ages ago. Any chances of reconstruction are now dead.