The Partick Thistle thread

[Diamonds are Forever]

4 hours ago, thistledo said:

Reminiscent of the same debate about Archie and McNamara although a fair amount of that team then were also McCall signings. Again lends itself to McCall can usually spot a player, but his peak seemed to be top half of the Championship table and no further. I think considering the nature of how Doolan was appointed and the feeling around the club/team at time he's done an outstanding job so far, if he gets us promoted that just feels ridiculous and goes well beyond my expectations. 

 

McCall has always been brilliant at judging what players are needed. At virtually every club he has been at his recruitment has been spot on and that has allowed him success at most of his clubs. He can certainly spot a player but also gets the right mix of players in his squad.

His actual managerial skills, in terms of coaching and tactics, leave quite a bit to be desired which is why I think he has a glass ceiling. The lower down the leagues you go it's more a case of sign good players, put them in a simple system and let their ability win you games. The further up you go more is required from the manager and I don't think he's really got what it takes in that regard.

Not many clubs at this level can afford it but he would be absolutely ideal for a Head of Recruitment/Head Scout type role where he targets the players and a good coach gets them playing.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Diamonds are Forever

[oneteaminglasgow]

31 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

McCall has always been brilliant at judging what players are needed. At virtually every club he has been at his recruitment has been spot on and that has allowed him success at most of his clubs. He can certainly spot a player but also gets the right mix of players in his squad.

His actual managerial skills, in terms of coaching and tactics, leave quite a bit to be desired which is why I think he has a glass ceiling. The lower down the leagues you go it's more a case of sign good players, put them in a simple system and let their ability win you games. The further up you go more is required from the manager and I don't think he's really got what it takes in that regard.

Not many clubs at this level can afford it but he would be absolutely ideal for a Head of Recruitment/Head Scout type role where he targets the players and a good coach gets them playing.

I think this is extremely fair. Hearing things from the players since Doolan came in about having a game plan now really shows up why we weren’t doing as well as we could’ve with the players available. When our plan A worked under McCall, we could be sensational but the second it wasn’t working then we quite often looked like we didn’t have a fucking clue what to do next.

Will always have time for McCall - he brought in some great players and restored the club a bit after a dismal couple of years. Literally the only highlight of the two and a bit seasons before he came back was Scott McDonald. Basically everything else was dogshit. But, in the end, his time was up. We’re better off for having had him come back, and we’re better off for having him leave. 

[Nightmare]

3 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Will always have time for McCall - he brought in some great players and restored the club a bit after a dismal couple of years. Literally the only highlight of the two and a bit seasons before he came back was Scott McDonald. Basically everything else was dogshit. But, in the end, his time was up. We’re better off for having had him come back, and we’re better off for having him leave. 

This has actually been the case with McCall twice. He also stabilised the club after Dick Campbell’s disastrous reign, which was just as bad as Caldwell’s.

[baba douche]

5 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

This has actually been the case with McCall twice. He also stabilised the club after Dick Campbell’s disastrous reign, which was just as bad as Caldwell’s.

Dick Campbell 

 

[JagsCG]

Can’t really add anything re McCall that hasn’t already been said. He’ll correctly get some credit for building the squad (Doolan has already done so, and if we achieve something brilliant in the next few weeks would likely do so again). Even though I felt it was correct that he left and it undoubtedly months on has proven the right decision, I think McCall will largely be thought of favourably due to where he took the club from in terms of the Caldwell shambles. He was the right manager for the time, and I reckon he’d face no real issues from fans if he was back for a match at Firhill for any reason. 

[AMMjag]

Another context is that weve built an ageing squad of players with little-to-no sell-on value, most of whom are probably playing at (or, in some cases, beyond) their ceiling at the top end of the Championship - at the same time as the previous board were registering successive losses with the club.

There's no doubt that watching a team of established Championship players is infinitely preferable to seeing Alex fucking Jones or Lewis Mansell (?) pretending to be professionall footballers, but whether we go up or down the new management team will be faced with a significant rebuild on a modest budget sooner rather than later.

 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

yeah, ive still plenty of time for McCall. Leaving aside the obvious, he was instrumental in bringing in and getting the most out of guys like Liam Buchanan, Marc Twaddle, Paddy Boyle (a PotY winner at one point I think), Paul Cairney, Gary Harkins etc. Not just spotting them in the first place but he could get a tune out of certain players who, post Thistle, were afaik pretty shite and drifted away into obscurity before long.

Harkins an exception there as he had a good top flight career, but e.g. Boyle and Cairney faded away pretty quickly after leaving us.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Thistle_do_nicely

[thistledo]

14 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

McCall has always been brilliant at judging what players are needed. At virtually every club he has been at his recruitment has been spot on and that has allowed him success at most of his clubs. He can certainly spot a player but also gets the right mix of players in his squad.

His actual managerial skills, in terms of coaching and tactics, leave quite a bit to be desired which is why I think he has a glass ceiling. The lower down the leagues you go it's more a case of sign good players, put them in a simple system and let their ability win you games. The further up you go more is required from the manager and I don't think he's really got what it takes in that regard.

Not many clubs at this level can afford it but he would be absolutely ideal for a Head of Recruitment/Head Scout type role where he targets the players and a good coach gets them playing.

I'd have him back as head of player recruitment for sure, something I don't think he's ready to settle for yet, despite he was quite hands off in terms of management. 

14 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I think this is extremely fair. Hearing things from the players since Doolan came in about having a game plan now really shows up why we weren’t doing as well as we could’ve with the players available. When our plan A worked under McCall, we could be sensational but the second it wasn’t working then we quite often looked like we didn’t have a fucking clue what to do next.

Will always have time for McCall - he brought in some great players and restored the club a bit after a dismal couple of years. Literally the only highlight of the two and a bit seasons before he came back was Scott McDonald. Basically everything else was dogshit. But, in the end, his time was up. We’re better off for having had him come back, and we’re better off for having him leave. 

Doolan actually deploying tactics is fantastic and actually takes training (as a manager should) as well, as far as I know McCall wasn't always present.

[Pie Of The Month]

The foundation have sent out a survey about the B teams and Conference League in case any members have missed it in their inbox. 

Worth the 2mins it takes to let them know how awful it is. 

[JagsCG]

10 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

yeah, ive still plenty of time for McCall. Leaving aside the obvious, he was instrumental in bringing in and getting the most out of guys like Liam Buchanan, Marc Twaddle, Paddy Boyle (a PotY winner at one point I think), Paul Cairney, Gary Harkins etc. Not just spotting them in the first place but he could get a tune out of certain players who, post Thistle, were afaik pretty shite and drifted away into obscurity before long.

Harkins an exception there as he had a good top flight career, but e.g. Boyle and Cairney faded away pretty quickly after leaving us.

Harkins arrived as a CB did he not? and it was McCall who first moved him into midfield, where obviously he flourished. 

[Fuctifano]

Think it was more that Harkins was so unfit when he signed he couldn't play centre mid until a few months into the season

12 hours ago, AMMjag said:

Another context is that weve built an ageing squad of players with little-to-no sell-on value, most of whom are probably playing at (or, in some cases, beyond) their ceiling at the top end of the Championship - at the same time as the previous board were registering successive losses with the club.

There's no doubt that watching a team of established Championship players is infinitely preferable to seeing Alex fucking Jones or Lewis Mansell (?) pretending to be professionall footballers, but whether we go up or down the new management team will be faced with a significant rebuild on a modest budget sooner rather than later.

 

This is a very good point, with Milne injured and anyone else of any value out of contract there's no transfer fees incoming this summer. 

While I wouldn't swap it for having finished 5th or lower, these playoffs going on for ever is hindering us a bit for next season, especially if we beat Ayr but lose to 11th (which is the most likely scenario IMO), other Championship teams are already signing players whereas we potentially won't know what division we're going to be in for a week and a half yet.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Fuctifano

[jaggyness]

Be interested to know from any of the ITK folk that might be on here. It's widely accepted that we budgeted on finishing 2nd, if we get to play off final even if we don't go up, are we in a better, worse or equal financial position to the budget set? 

[Fuctifano]

21 minutes ago, jaggyness said:

Be interested to know from any of the ITK folk that might be on here. It's widely accepted that we budgeted on finishing 2nd, if we get to play off final even if we don't go up, are we in a better, worse or equal financial position to the budget set? 

I'm not ITK but I would strongly suspect worse as I think the clubs make next to nothing from the playoffs 

[VictorOnopko]

22 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

I'm not ITK but I would strongly suspect worse as I think the clubs make next to nothing from the playoffs 

Really? Even with the large home attendances for the extra games?

[jaggyness]

38 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

I'm not ITK but I would strongly suspect worse as I think the clubs make next to nothing from the playoffs 

 

13 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

Really? Even with the large home attendances for the extra games?

I guessed it would be somewhere close to where we imagined but marginally worse off as remembered we had to extend everyone's contracts by a few weeks 

[Fuctifano]

Home teams have to pay a fair chunk to the SPFL and once you take into account stewarding costs etc it's not a great deal.

[thistledo]

1 hour ago, jaggyness said:

Be interested to know from any of the ITK folk that might be on here. It's widely accepted that we budgeted on finishing 2nd, if we get to play off final even if we don't go up, are we in a better, worse or equal financial position to the budget set? 

I believe our best outcome financially is promotion even if we go straight back down. 

[Pie Of The Month]

Rough's budgeting for 2nd claims also included him saying they were anticipating bigger crowds for the run in if we were challenging for the title. I don't think those materialised so I suspect we're not close to breaking even this year.

I noticed another of the former directors from Low's board, John Penman, is now on twitter telling anyone who will listen his thoughts on what's wrong with Scottish football without a hint of a brass neck.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Pie Of The Month

[VictorOnopko]

1 hour ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Rough's budgeting for 2nd claims also included him saying they were anticipating bigger crowds for the run in if we were challenging for the title. I don't think those materialised so I suspect we're not close to breaking even this year.

I noticed another of the former directors from Low's board, John Penman, is now on twitter telling anyone who will listen his thoughts on what's wrong with Scottish football without a hint of a brass neck.

Looked John Penman up and the first search result maybe explains how the old board was assembled and some of the decisions were taken.

[jagsfan57]

5 hours ago, thistledo said:

I believe our best outcome financially is promotion even if we go straight back down. 

You would expect that to be the case, although it depends on how well the finances are managed.