The Partick Thistle thread

[jagsfan57]

9 hours ago, GrahamJags said:

The club should have held off giving ST holders free bus travel on match days, and instead should have focused on football matters? Very strange take.

If they had managed to get everything done right, I would take your point. By the way, does anyone know if the affected players have signed the contract extensions ? 

[Fuctifano]

Hopefully the social media team are holding them back to announce one by one for clicks.

[jagfox]

12 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

Hopefully the social media team are holding them back to announce one by one for clicks.

In Gaelic...

[VictorOnopko]

I've heard that players who sign on for the extra week or two also get free bus travel, provided they say hello to the driver in Gaelic and are wearing a Kingsley costume when they board.

[dougie247]

Doolan has just gone with chuck the best players on the pitch idea so far that Mcall always did.. No tactics.. No plan.. It worked against Ayr (barely) and been stymied against Arbroath. We need an actual tactical plan.

[chattyman]

1 hour ago, dougie247 said:

Doolan has just gone with chuck the best players on the pitch idea so far that Mcall always did.. No tactics.. No plan.. It worked against Ayr (barely) and been stymied against Arbroath. We need an actual tactical plan.

You can only deal with the hand you are dealt, unfortunately McCall has assembled a squad of meh and no matter who is in charge you are going to get a variation of meh. 

[Braesoyetts]

8 hours ago, chattyman said:

You can only deal with the hand you are dealt, unfortunately McCall has assembled a squad of meh and no matter who is in charge you are going to get a variation of meh. 

Honestly, in this division, our squad is definitely capable of achieving promotion.  (Probably capable of being relegated too, to be fair.)  It's a pretty level playing field.  So we just have to hope that inside Kris's head lurks the tactical and man-management genius of Fergie crossed with Clough.  

It's possible, I suppose.  The thing about McCall, and all the other characters doing the rounds of Scottish football coaching positions, is that we know they're mediocre.  Not bad, exactly, but if they were real quality they wouldn't be here any more.  With someone who's never managed before, there's still the mystery.  Might they turn out to be a once-in-a-generation legend?  

It's like Schrodinger's cat, with Doolan's tactical ability as the cat, and his lack of management experience as the box.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Braesoyetts

[Braesoyetts]

NB:  Obviously Kris Doolan is already a legend.  Above, I meant in a managerial capacity.

[dougie247]

loving the positivity around the team just now.. but Dools has really only put the best 11 on the pitch the exact same thing McCall was doing when he had a fit squad. I just hope we arent going to give him the job full time due to sentimentality when what we needed was an actual change in the managment of the team. Fair enough till the end of the season but we defo need an experienced head in there somewhere otherwise we just go onto repeating past mistakes.

[Nightmare]

7 minutes ago, dougie247 said:

loving the positivity around the team just now.. but Dools has really only put the best 11 on the pitch the exact same thing McCall was doing when he had a fit squad. I just hope we arent going to give him the job full time due to sentimentality when what we needed was an actual change in the managment of the team. Fair enough till the end of the season but we defo need an experienced head in there somewhere otherwise we just go onto repeating past mistakes.

"Putting the best 11 on the pitch" is a very simplistic way of looking at things, though. And partly why McCall is such a bang average manager at this level - he's great at signing players and putting a good 11 on the pitch, but things like situational tactics, style of play and proactive substitutions are areas in which he lacks.

Could it not be that Kris Doolan is just better at these things than Ian McCall? Time will tell. Maybe we're just in the midst of a new manager bounce and Doolan will get found out a bit towards the end of the season, but just because he plays the same players as McCall doesn't mean they're going to return similar results over time.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Nightmare

[Pie Of The Month]

There's already a narrative starting that McCall was unlucky with injuries and Doolan hasn't been. He was unlucky with the pitch last season too or that the board had to sell Harkins the first time round. There's always excuses when it comes to McCall.

Doolan on the other hand has been chucked into 3 difficult away games, has yet to be able to play a settled back 4 and started his managerial reign with Graham suspended and Dowds getting injured 7 minutes in. He's just got on with it, not complained about it and picked up 7 points out of 9. instead of doing the usual McCall bottle job in such circumstances away from home then bemoaning his bad luck.

[jagfox]

I never got the feeling McCall ever knew his best eleven? 

Great start by Doolan, has he done enough to get the gig until season's end?

It is certainly a yes from me.

He could prove to be an asset in this role but it may come down to Doolan,  if he wants to continue the job on a longer basis.

Edited March 1, 2023 by jagfox

[Fuctifano]

There was a  bit of chuntering (not so much on here tbf) after Saturday about same old same old, no tactics, outplayed by bottom of the league etc, one win later and it's all sunshine and roses again.

It's obviously a small sample size for Doolan, the decision is weighing the risk of signing him up beyond the end of the season when he *might* not be up to it and it's just a new manager bounce vs the uncertainty of having an interim manager and not being able to make contract extension /external signing/pre-contract decisions for next season- or worse, leaving them entirely up to Gerry Britton, as it's still far more likely than not we'll be in this division next season.

Archibald got 6 games (not counting the abandoned fog game) in his interim spell from 16 Feb -22 March before being confirmed FWIW, winning 5 and drawing 1.

[jagsfan57]

2 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said:

There's already a narrative starting that McCall was unlucky with injuries and Doolan hasn't been. He was unlucky with the pitch last season too or that the board had to sell Harkins the first time round. There's always excuses when it comes to McCall.

Doolan on the other hand has been chucked into 3 difficult away games, has yet to be able to play a settled back 4 and started his managerial reign with Graham suspended and Dowds getting injured 7 minutes in. He's just got on with it, not complained about it and picked up 7 points out of 9. instead of doing the usual McCall bottle job in such circumstances away from home then bemoaning his bad luck.

It’s not a narrative that he was unlucky with injuries or that the pitch was bad last season(these are facts) and it is now conjecture whether McCall would have been able to repeat the results he got earlier in the season at Ayr, Arbroath and Dundee. He is history now. Perhaps Doolan is going to be a great coach - I really hope so.

[Braesoyetts]

2 hours ago, Fuctifano said:

There was a  bit of chuntering (not so much on here tbf) after Saturday about same old same old, no tactics, outplayed by bottom of the league etc, one win later and it's all sunshine and roses again.

It's obviously a small sample size for Doolan, the decision is weighing the risk of signing him up beyond the end of the season when he *might* not be up to it and it's just a new manager bounce vs the uncertainty of having an interim manager and not being able to make contract extension /external signing/pre-contract decisions for next season- or worse, leaving them entirely up to Gerry Britton, as it's still far more likely than not we'll be in this division next season.

Archibald got 6 games (not counting the abandoned fog game) in his interim spell from 16 Feb -22 March before being confirmed FWIW, winning 5 and drawing 1.

I'd give it another month, and if results continue overall well, then offer an extension.  It would only make sense to go in a different direction if there's an obviously better choice out there, and depending on results over the next few games, it's possible there isn't a better choice at the level of salary we'd be offering.  

Regarding McCall and bad luck etc., if you look at his record, there's no sustained period of excellence as manager at any club.  Not that I'm saying he's bad, just that he's one of the many in the middle of the pack, good at some things not at others.  Most of us are probably like this in our own jobs.  It's the bread and butter of any industry.  But equally, we also know in our own jobs that there are some folk that just excel, that always seem to be faster, more skilled, more intelligent, or whatever.  The results back it up (though there are always down times).  In football, you can see the impact when a manager takes teams on an immediate tear up through the divisions, and what's more does it repeatedly at different clubs.  

Way too early to say anything about Doolan, and I very much doubt he's one of them, but it'll be interesting to see if he's any closer to that ideal than McCall.  Even if he's tactically no more astute, perhaps he'll be an upgrade in other ways.  In this case, maybe better the devil you don't know?

[third lanark]

6 hours ago, dougie247 said:

loving the positivity around the team just now.. but Dools has really only put the best 11 on the pitch the exact same thing McCall was doing when he had a fit squad. I just hope we arent going to give him the job full time due to sentimentality when what we needed was an actual change in the managment of the team. Fair enough till the end of the season but we defo need an experienced head in there somewhere otherwise we just go onto repeating past mistakes.

There is an experienced head in the coaching team - Paul McDonald the current temporary assistant manager.  Who’s not to say he will be kept on as assistant manager if Doolan gets the gig full time and they would look at appointing someone else as Head of Thistle Weir

[The Thistle Archive]

Post-match updates in place Dundee 1 Partick Thistle 3 →     BRIAN GRAHAM INTO THE ALL-TIME TOP 50

● Thistle have led Dundee at half-time in all 3 League games this season.

● With his latest brace, Brian Graham (now on 44) moves into the all-time Top 50 competitive goals chart, overtaking Gerry Britton who was previously 50th with 43 goals.

● Harry Milne notches his 5th goal of the season, good going from the left-back position. 3 of these have came against Dundee. He scored his first Thistle goal at home to the Dark Blues and his latest away to them.

● Kris Doolan is the 7th Partick Thistle manager to remain unbeaten in his first 3 competitive matches, and is the first to do so since Alan Archibald in 2013.

● Kris Doolan has won 7 away points in 3 games. This compares favourably to Ian McCall's 10 away points all season!

● Thistle have won 5 of their last 7 games at Dens Park. The overall H2H is currently running 15 games without a draw.

ongoing sequences:

● 36 consecutive competitive appearances for Jack McMillan, 9th Jul 2022 to date, a new personal best. (Longest run since: Jamie Sneddon - 41 games, 28th Aug 2021 to 9th Jul 2022. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games, 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.)

[Virtual Insanity]

10 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

It’s not a narrative that he was unlucky with injuries or that the pitch was bad last season(these are facts) and it is now conjecture whether McCall would have been able to repeat the results he got earlier in the season at Ayr, Arbroath and Dundee. He is history now. Perhaps Doolan is going to be a great coach - I really hope so.

Its not a fact that he was unlucky with injuries, its an opinion, and one that for whatever reason seems to reappear frequently for McCall. 

The squad was painfully lacking in central defensive cover in the summer, one injury to a centre half shouldn't have derailed us in the manner it did. He also stuck with Mitchell when it was painfully obvious he wasn't the answer. 

 

[chattyman]

The difference i see instantly between Doolan and McCall, is Doolan is on the training pitch getting to know his players and seeing what they have to offer. McCall could not be arsed and left it to Archie and Scally which was his main failing. McCall is a good manager but if you don't get to know your players or mix with them then you are at a loss. How can you motivate or inspire people you don't really get to know? Doolan is also talking well, talking tactically and positive. Is he the man for the long term that again is debatable because if he gets the gig he won't have the current squad and his skills will be tested in who he brings in. It could end up he is a good coach but not an all round manager. It is now up to the club to either back him and allow him to sign most of the current squad back up for next year or to shit the bed and well..................

Next season will be a very hard league with the two Dundee teams, possiby Killie or Ross County/Motherwell if play offs go the champiosnhips way.

[jagsfan57]

8 hours ago, Virtual Insanity said:

Its not a fact that he was unlucky with injuries, its an opinion, and one that for whatever reason seems to reappear frequently for McCall. 

The squad was painfully lacking in central defensive cover in the summer, one injury to a centre half shouldn't have derailed us in the manner it did. He also stuck with Mitchell when it was painfully obvious he wasn't the answer. 

 

I didn’t mean unlucky with injuries - just that we had injuries to key players all at the same time. And you are right, the cover should have been better, and I think most thought it was, until the Falkirk game. My point has been we have generally been good enough even if we are missing 2 key players - more than that is when we fail. The key players in my opinion are Holt, Docherty, Lawless,Graham and Tiffoney.