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2 minutes ago, dougie247 said:

Ok so can someone please tell me if i am just completley clueless here which i expect i am..

If the PTFC trust is made up of members containing season ticket holders and hopefully soon non season ticket holders (including i would assume a large proportion of The Jags Trust members) and if its a trust as in the normal sense..

There should be AGM's, EGM's and elections all that stuff its not a closed system?? So then the supporters should be able to take control of that body quite easily?

with 75% holding of the share's cant they force a change in board leadership? Or would that mean a change within the PTFC trust? (is the 75% in a kind of way u dont actually have any say?)

 

Would appreciate some help with this nonsense as all ive got to go on is watching Succession and Billions.. both great shows btw!

These are all very interesting questions Dougie.

The PTFC Trust doesn’t have “members” it has “beneficiaries”. These used to be people who’d held a season ticket for this and the two prior seasons, and this was automatic rather than a proactive “opt-in” choice. However since the Trust was set up in 2015, it has only held one set of elections (in 2018) and none of its trustees have been elected by anyone since 3BC bought the majority shareholding in the Club in November 2019. They have purported, among other things, to change their rules again, so that all season ticket holders are automatically beneficiaries, whether they want to be or not.

Being a trust, rather than a company, its duties of public disclosure and accountability are much reduced. There is no requirement for an AGM or mechanism to call an EGM, unless the new Trust deed, which they haven’t published, provides for it. There are no members or shareholders who could trigger one.

We have absolutely no idea if or when the new PTFC Trust plans to hold elections, or even how many of their trustees are to be elected rather than appointed by others (under the old deed half the trustees were Club Board appointees).

The default position under the Companies Acts is that a majority shareholder can remove the entire Board of Directors (just as David Beattie removed Jacqui Low’s Board in  summer 2019). But we don’t yet know whether the Club Board still retains influence over the governance of the Trust, or indeed if the Trust has conceded other arrangements, to qualify or fetter those default powers.

It’s almost as though a fan ownership vehicle should be open and transparent about its rules, maybe hold an EGM to ask members to adopt them, or something.

Oh wait. That’s exactly what TJF are doing.

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10 hours ago, Plastic Whistle said:

Struggling to think of how things could have gone more badly for the Trust/3BC/club...

Attempting to cover up your chair's resignation in the most ham-fisted manner possible has to be up there.

And I've now seen questions raised about why a football agent (also a Thistle fan) has been so vocal in his support of the Trust and why he appears to have privileged access to its Trustees and their plans.

Looks like the negative news cycle surrounding the share transfer is entering its second day.

Edited by Plastic Whistle
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As usual, it seems that a permanent ban on the people of Cumbernauld mixing with the rest of us is the only viable solution here.

Also, the PTFC Trust lads must think we’re a bunch of complete simpletons. Just take the guys name off the statement and that’s it, it’ll go away? f**k me. 

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The PTFC Trust Facebook statement reveals that each adult season ticket holder has a “vote”, and on the next line the words “democratic” and “representative” are used. This presumably means one thing:  there will be (and quickly) an election, in which all season ticket holders, including for example and of course Foundation members, can participate in as candidates and voters. We should look forward to the hustings. 

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3 minutes ago, Stan Butler Says said:

The PTFC Trust Facebook statement reveals that each adult season ticket holder has a “vote”, and on the next line the words “democratic” and “representative” are used. This presumably means one thing:  there will be (and quickly) an election, in which all season ticket holders, including for example and of course Foundation members, can participate in as candidates and voters. We should look forward to the hustings. 

And going on their history, we are to believe them? Hehehe 

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10 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Looks like the PTFC trust have simply removed Euan Couperwhite's name from their statement rather than acknowledge any wrongdoing on his part.

 

1 hour ago, Mediocre Pundit said:

The thing is, Low won’t care about a negative news cycle. She knows it will blow over eventually (even if most fans continue to think she’s a twat) and all she really cares about is keeping control. 

image.jpeg.995465f5e0a42401ae232ff4f577d642.jpeg.0e3a6ef338da536a5ed780281295127b.jpeg

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15 minutes ago, Stan Butler Says said:

The PTFC Trust Facebook statement reveals that each adult season ticket holder has a “vote”, and on the next line the words “democratic” and “representative” are used. This presumably means one thing:  there will be (and quickly) an election, in which all season ticket holders, including for example and of course Foundation members, can participate in as candidates and voters. We should look forward to the hustings. 

Given that their list of “trustees” changed recently and their chair has been removed overnight without a peep to those of us who are ST holders and should theoretically have said a say in those types of decisions - I think we might be waiting a wee while here.

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If you want to find out more your 2 options are to meet one of the trustees in the Aitken Suite on Friday (not any sort of official meeting of course, just you going up to him in the Aitken Suite) or wait for the Q&A which the Trust are releasing 'shortly'.

The fact I've had to delve into the facebook replies of the club's post about this and find one of the Trustees speaking in a personal capacity bodes well for future engagement with fans.

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It's impossible to overstate what a stitch up this is.  It's now reached Tory party levels of disingenuousness and mendacity.

Basically Jacqui has revived a zombie organisation which hasn't engaged with the fans for the past 2+ years to "represent" the fans without actually electing representatives, or holding any power on the board.  It certainly has no way to remove said board, because the club is now permanently Low-run, not fan-run.  In doing so, she has told TJF she won't engage with their transparent, elected organisation which was pushing towards 1000 fans on board and potentially paying into the club.  Have I got this novel spin on "fan ownership" correct?

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9 minutes ago, placidcasual said:

Who owned the club before Weir got involved? Was Low there prior to him throwing money in?

Various Thistle fans owned much smaller stakes in the club, many of them from the Save The Jags time. Low came in with Weir.

We were probably more fan owned and run then than we are now considering everyone on the board at that time were Thistle fans at least.

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8 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Various Thistle fans owned much smaller stakes in the club, many of them from the Save The Jags time. Low came in with Weir.

We were probably more fan owned and run then than we are now considering everyone on the board at that time were Thistle fans at least.

Broadly this, yes.

It was a little more complicated than that, because a couple of shareholders joined a few years after STJ (most notably David Beattie and Billy Allan).

The post-STJ settlement was, ironically, deliberately designed to prevent a single majority shareholder acting unilaterally, and to require the co-operation of "the great and the good" for major decisions. You had a mix of people who had put in money, one genuine if unreliable fan-owned body as a major shareholder (The Jags Trust) and then 10% for Colin Weir for clearing our bank debt in 2015 and 19% for the PTFC Trust that was set up at the same time.

I can't remember the exact maths of it all, but the ownership arrangements in 2019 remained so disparate that I think David Beattie almost needed the support of The Jags Trust's 7.5% shareholding to remove Jacqui Low and others from the Club Board. There were easily 8-10 different people among the 55% that was eventually sold to 3BC. The original post STJ settlement in the early 2000s had about 6 or 7 major shareholders, each roughly holding the same amount (about 12% i think?). But their shareholdings were diluted when new share capital was issued.

Edited by Ad Lib
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24 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

It's impossible to overstate what a stitch up this is.  It's now reached Tory party levels of disingenuousness and mendacity.

Pretty much this.

I never met Colin Weir, and I don’t want to speculate too much on what his wishes were, but I’m pretty certain that he wouldn’t have said the phrase “fan ownership” if what he envisioned for the club was “Jacqui Low can just be in charge indefinitely and completely unaccountable to anyone”

The whole ‘fan-owned not fan run’ schtick is completely insulting. As a member of TJF, I wasn’t expecting to be consulted on every decision our board makes, and I have less than zero interest in ever being on the board at the club. What I was expecting was to be able to hold them accountable for those decisions. I was expecting that we would be able to vote for who we want to represent the club, based on their vision for the club. That’s the essence of what we were promised. That’s what’s being stolen from us by Low, and a duplicitous band of hangers-on. 

Edited by oneteaminglasgow
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6 minutes ago, pthardie said:

Seems to have been written in the same style as the 3bc and PTFC statements but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence

Is collective narcissism a thing?

The dramatic difference in the tone with which the PTFC Trust (and by extension TBC/PTFC) and TJF communicate is incredible. The first is pretty much saying well we suppose we need to tell you about this, although I really don't know why you're all getting worked up with Boris Johnsonesque gaslighting, while the other actually cares about informing it's stakeholders and how it delivers those messages to best engage them. I totally get there is a different level of competency in communication ability between these groups, but please remind me which group contains the chairman of a fucking communications and reputation management company.

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