The Partick Thistle thread

[Bishop Briggs]

20 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

Fantastic analysis @Jaffaboy

Apologies for my ignorance, but do those numbers account for the money we receive from QP for the groundshare? Seems incredible we have a revenue source others dont have yet find ourselves losing significantly more than our rivals.

Very worrying times 

The Queen's Park rental income will be included in this year's (2022) accounts.

[Hammer Jag]

45 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

The Queen's Park rental income will be included in this year's (2022) accounts.

I’ve never seen ginger bottles on company accounts before. 

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, Hammer Jag said:

I’ve never seen ginger bottles on company accounts before. 

I assumed that JLow takes them back to the shop in Maryhill Road and then banks the cash.

[Bishop Briggs]

The latest TJF email has been posted on WAT. It is underwhelming to put it politely. I've put the important points in bold.

 

"Since the Public Information meeting on Feb 23rd, we have received a lot of feedback on the data shared and queries raised. One of the points of feedback was in the irregularity of updates from TJF, despite a lot going on, it was felt that at least a bi-weekly (once every two weeks) update would be appreciated by the members. This is the first of those.

First up is a brief note to update you on where we are in the discussions with Three Black Cats and the Club on The Jags Foundation taking the “Colin Weir Shareholding”.

A contingent from TJF met with the Chairman, Chief Exec and two PTFC board members on Thursday 17th March. During that meeting we updated everyone on the public meeting, the current status of TJF and on the feedback received during the public meeting. This was a constructive meeting with two major actions highlighted;

1) An item raised included financial queries based on published accounts that some fans and TJF thought would be prudent to ask from public available data. This included matters relating to the pitch, the main stand and the overall operating budget.

The PTFC board agreed that if TJF wished to compose a Q+A sheet (that could be shared with our members) based on those queries and the various interpretations given, that they would quite happily check those answers and offer correction if necessary. Upon receiving the club’s response we will duly feedback that to our members.

2) At the same time, we also presented the 1st draft of the “Working Together” document, this will be the guidelines and rules in how TJF and the club will interact. There be a continuous process to hone that document into its final working edit.

We will continue these meetings on a regular basis and update the membership appropriately.

Other points to note:-

As you may be aware Gavin Taylor stepped down as Chairman from TJF due to work commitments but stays on board as a Director. Gavin has also relinquished his role on the PTFC board, this is now an open position to be filled by a TJF appointee. In the meantime, we have appointed David Brown as Director and Chairman of TJF. We welcome him to the role.

The inaugural TJF AGM will now be held later in the year when we have advanced the Working Together process and can duly advise all the members of the next steps. At this point it would also be prudent to ratify Gavin’s replacement on the PTFC board

All of the roles within TJF are voluntary and like you we are driven by the desire for success of Partick Thistle. We would really appreciate additional help to achieve our goal of securing the majority shareholding and building for that success. E.g. right now we would like to secure some skill sets within the Marketing and Social Media arena. Our current membership stands at just below 500, this is way below our targeted threshold of 1000 members. If you could offer some time to assist in anyway, please contact us by email.

We have been actively canvassing the fans over the past three home games, you may have had a leaflet thrust into your own hands, and what has become clear is some fans are still not fully aware in what we are trying to achieve with TJF but each discussion we believe brings that clarity and hopefully signed up members. If you could potentially support us by joining our directors on match days to galvanize our support and perhaps tell others of why you joined and what you expect as “majority shareholder” please contact us. We are in a very unique position of being able to become a “fan owned” football club securing our legacy and building our future but we don’t have all the answers. This is your organization and we rely on your feedback, communications and engagement to make sure we fulfill that goal. Please continue to do so."

 

Note that there is no mention of due diligence or knowledge sharing. There is just a Q+A and a first draft of a "Working Together" document. 

It's only three months until the planned transfer of Colin Weir's shares to TJF. How can we be sure that TJF has the necessary knowledge and skills to take effective control of the club?

 

[jagfox]

So if the fan takeover falls through 3BC retain control of the club, is that correct?

[Nightmare]

1 hour ago, jagfox OG said:

So if the fan takeover falls through 3BC retain control of the club, is that correct?

That would make sense.

Most likely scenario is that even if the fan takeover is “successful”, 3BC will still retain control of the club.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 hours ago, Nightmare said:

That would make sense.

Most likely scenario is that even if the fan takeover is “successful”, 3BC will still retain control of the club.

But who would own 3BC under that scenario?  

[Bishop Briggs]

2 hours ago, Nightmare said:

That would make sense.

Most likely scenario is that even if the fan takeover is “successful”, 3BC will still retain control of the club.

Not necessarily.

TJF, as majority shareholder, could sack/remove any or all of the Directors.

[Nightmare]

1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Not necessarily.

TJF, as majority shareholder, could sack/remove any or all of the Directors.

Yeah, if they wanted to. My point is that they won’t, because if this thing ever actually happens it’ll probably just end up being a puppet ownership anyway.

[OwenFJ]

6 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

But who would own 3BC under that scenario?  

Three black cats, TBC or 3BC has one named company director - Jacqui Low.   No fan group can change the ownership of that company.    As long as that company is involved, Low is involved. The other named director - Colin Weir, has passed and as such his position in the company as a director is relinquished. 

It could be speculated - based on the companies house documents relating to 3BCs - that Colin weir setup the company with Jackie low as a director to manage finances that were originally for the much heralded training ground, then when she was kicked out of the club three black cats came back to buy the shares and reinstate low - money gone on purchase of shares, so no training facility for ptfc? 

The fan ownership model being proposed is basically passing a shareholding from one company (three black cats) to a new company (call it jags foundation or whatever). The board remains, but as a major shareholder the new company gets some seats on the board.  So the company that Jacqui low is involved in will pass on shares and anything else thistle related, but as an individual JLow can stay of the ptfc board.  Board positions for people who are not investing any personal wealth, and liabilities passed from Colin weirs old company to the new fan owned company. It’s a nice model for those in the comfy stadium chairs…
 

Sign up to this and you get to play your part in owning the majority shares in a company that now has a stadium, pitch, squad.

All of the above is purely speculation based on the publicly accessible information at companies house on ptfc and three black cats. Worth also noting that three black cats has one employee listed. Does that individual work for a holding company or do they ‘work’ at ptfc?..

[Bishop Briggs]

5 hours ago, OwenFJ said:

Three black cats, TBC or 3BC has one named company director - Jacqui Low.   No fan group can change the ownership of that company.    As long as that company is involved, Low is involved. The other named director - Colin Weir, has passed and as such his position in the company as a director is relinquished. 

It could be speculated - based on the companies house documents relating to 3BCs - that Colin weir setup the company with Jackie low as a director to manage finances that were originally for the much heralded training ground, then when she was kicked out of the club three black cats came back to buy the shares and reinstate low - money gone on purchase of shares, so no training facility for ptfc? 

The fan ownership model being proposed is basically passing a shareholding from one company (three black cats) to a new company (call it jags foundation or whatever). The board remains, but as a major shareholder the new company gets some seats on the board.  So the company that Jacqui low is involved in will pass on shares and anything else thistle related, but as an individual JLow can stay of the ptfc board.  Board positions for people who are not investing any personal wealth, and liabilities passed from Colin weirs old company to the new fan owned company. It’s a nice model for those in the comfy stadium chairs…
 

Sign up to this and you get to play your part in owning the majority shares in a company that now has a stadium, pitch, squad.

All of the above is purely speculation based on the publicly accessible information at companies house on ptfc and three black cats. Worth also noting that three black cats has one employee listed. Does that individual work for a holding company or do they ‘work’ at ptfc?..

That is the worst case scenario but there are other alternatives.

It is possible that Colin Weir left 3BC to his ex-wife, children or AN Other. AN Other could be Jacqui Low. If not, the owner could remove her as a Director or appoint other Directors. J

After TJF becomes the majority shareholder, its members can instruct the TJF representative(s) on the Board (AGM resolution) to it can remove Low and the other Directors. The TJF members can then appoint/elect replacements Directors and take total control of the club. 

That's also what the members are signing up for.

J Low "works" for/at several companies - her own PR business, 3BC, PTFC, a financial services company and possible others too. 

[Bishop Briggs]

11 hours ago, Nightmare said:

Yeah, if they wanted to. My point is that they won’t, because if this thing ever actually happens it’ll probably just end up being a puppet ownership anyway.

Only if the members allow it.

The members can remove the TJF board, elect replacements at the AGM (referred to in the email update that I posted) and instruct them (through a resolution) to remove Directors from the club Board.

[jagsfan57]

On 24/03/2022 at 16:51, Jacky1990 said:

Fantastic analysis @Jaffaboy

Apologies for my ignorance, but do those numbers account for the money we receive from QP for the groundshare? Seems incredible we have a revenue source others dont have yet find ourselves losing significantly more than our rivals.

Very worrying times 

I don’t think the analysis stands up to much scrutiny. Hardly any of the clubs publish profit and loss accounts.

At least 2 of the clubs had significant investment or share issues contributing to cash, while at the same time their retained earnings position got worse(they made losses).

[jagsfan57]

On 24/03/2022 at 11:05, thistledo said:

The £500k didn't concern me really, given lockdown and the way we spent money. Yes long term not feasible, but for now, I don't think it's of great concern. 

 

Part of that 500K is furlough receipt, maybe even as much as 1/2. 
Furlough was 80 % of wages for Jun & Jul; 60 % Aug & Sep and I guess something again for Jan & Feb

I think folk are seeing a commitment of 536 in 3BC and 518 in PTFC and thinking they are the same. Unless someone’s pocketed 18 for doing the deal ?

[Pie Of The Month]

Quote

Thanks for all the feedback and responses to Friday’s update. For those offering help we will make direct contact with you, thanks for everyone’s continuing support. There were also some common queries that we would like to clarify below.

Will the Jags Foundation be carrying out an independent Due Diligence process?

We asked for and were denied a formal process of Due Diligence. The view expressed was that this is not appropriate as the shares are being gifted, and that the information sharing process described in the joint statement should suffice. We know that this is not a view that we all agree with but, equally, we do not wish to walk away from this process. We are happy to acknowledge that this is a challenging situation for us.

Did the Foundation specify a Question & Answer rather than Independent Professional Due Diligence or did that come from the Club/3BC?

We did pose some financial questions at the meeting held last week.  These were based on information already in the public domain.  Responses were given, and the Q&A approach was suggested by the TJF representatives as a means of covering more ground than we were able to do in the time available.

Is June still the anticipated timeline for the transfer of shares?

Given where we are at this point in time, we think a June transfer will be unlikely.  

Will the AGM happen in April?

We decided to defer the Annual General Meeting until we have been able to publish the results of the Q&A.  We believe it will give any fans considering putting themselves forward as candidates a better picture of the future.

There is no mention of the resignations that have happened this week.

Stuart Callison resigned this week as he felt that there were too many barriers to his aspirations for fan ownership.  Between late 2021 and more recently, Sandy Fyfe and Tom Hosie have also stepped back from the board.  We have also welcomed new faces who have expressed an interest in being actively involved and will continue to do so.

 from the Jags Foundation.

 

No AGM, no transfer of shares on time and confirmation they were denied the opportunity to carry out a due diligence process. I'm really not sure if TJF can survive this.

[oneteaminglasgow]

Jacqui Low and the rest of the current board being extremely keen to ensure there’s no due diligence done is really, really concerning, especially when I mind last time she was ousted and Beattie had to scrap team buses because she’d made such an arse of the finances.

[Nightmare]

3BC denying due diligence because the shares are being gifted is staggering.

Anyone that still supports her at this point needs to take a long, hard look at themselves.

[thenolly]

If there are no skeletons in the closet you’d open the door 3BC to allow the foundation to peek inside under due diligence. 
 

Looks like there’s more skeletons than Fred Wests extension. 
 

Tick Tock PTFC Chair, your time is running out and your about to be exposed

[Jacky1990]

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

3BC denying due diligence because the shares are being gifted is staggering.

Anyone that still supports her at this point needs to take a long, hard look at themselves.

Surely due dilligence is an SPFL requirement for transfer of club ownership?

Or is that not the case? 

Anything the SFA could do to enforce a peak behind the curtains to make sure there isnt some sort of fraud going on?

[Bishop Briggs]

7 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

Surely due dilligence is an SPFL requirement for transfer of club ownership?

Or is that not the case? 

Anything the SFA could do to enforce a peak behind the curtains to make sure there isnt some sort of fraud going on?

Due diligence is not a SPFL requirement but TJF (especially its directors) will have to pass the "fit and proper" ownership test...

Edited March 27, 2022 by Bishop Briggs