JagsCG Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Diamond. Dave said: I think it must have been difficult for Archie returning and adjusting to the new role and situation. I don't see any point in blaming him though or begrudging him of the job. He has spent half his life at the club, he knows the score and at least we know he can be trusted and has the clubs best interests. It is somewhat peculiar the set up McCall opted for but I think Neil Scally is a very decent guy and coach as well. Things are bad enough but I don't see any point in playing the blame game with them at this stage. The players on the other hand......... You make a good point, I blame a lot of the players individually and collectively more than the management, but the management still have to take a fair share of stick, it’s the way it goes. McCall bringing Archie back was always a strange one, if it worked and we started winning games consistently, then no one would continually question it, because we haven’t did that and now find ourselves in the 3rd tier, then it is going to constantly be questioned as to whether it was right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagsCG Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 46 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: Archie has done a number on the club. He should have been sacked after an abysmal relegation from the Premiership. But he was kept on and signed a load of duds who were rightly binned by Caldwell. I can't understand why McCall brought Archie back as first-team coach at the end of his gardening leave. The decline has continued and, after another terrible season, we are now in League One and still stuck with him. A total waste of space and money! Might be wrong here, but to be fair, didn’t Archie say he wanted to leave but was persuaded to stay by Beattie? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, JagsCG said: Might be wrong here, but to be fair, didn’t Archie say he wanted to leave but was persuaded to stay by Beattie? IIRC Archie offered to resign but wanted his contract paid up in full. It was cheaper to keep him. Then he signed the likes of Storer, Ntambwe, Mutumbo, Quitongo and Scobbie. Where are they now? - in non-league clubs or free agents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said: Archie has done a number on the club. He should have been sacked after an abysmal relegation from the Premiership. But he was kept on and signed a load of duds who were rightly binned by Caldwell. I can't understand why McCall brought Archie back as first-team coach at the end of his gardening leave. The decline has continued and, after another terrible season, we are now in League One and still stuck with him. A total waste of space and money! Calm yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagsCG Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: IIRC Archie offered to resign but wanted his contract paid up in full. It was cheaper to keep him. Then he signed the likes of Storer, Ntambwe, Mutumbo, Quitongo and Scobbie. Where are they now? - in non-league clubs or free agents. Ah okay fair enough. Yes his signings were dreadful, I assume McCall is keeping him well away from that part of a management during this window . Scobbie is at Kelty Hearts I think and Quitongo went to Dumbarton, no idea about the other 2 mentioned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, dave.j said: Calm yourself. I am very calm but totally pissed off that we are League One. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 minute ago, JagsCG said: Ah okay fair enough. Yes his signings were dreadful, I assume McCall is keeping him well away from that part of a management during this window . Scobbie is at Kelty Hearts I think and Quitongo went to Dumbarton, no idea about the other 2 mentioned. Ntambwe went to Macclesfield Town, then managed by Sol Campbell, but left in January. They've been in financial turmoil for a long time. Storer went to Micklefield Sports and has just moved to Leamington Spa. Mutombo ended up at FC State Lausanne Duchy in Switzerland. Btw, Kallum Higginbotham has just signed for Kelty Hearts and Paul Paton has signed for East Kilbride. If the Lowland League clubs can attract ex-Championship players, we could bring in some decent players to replace those who have been replaced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagsCG Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: Btw, Kallum Higginbotham has just signed for Kelty Hearts and Paul Paton has signed for East Kilbride. If the Lowland League clubs can attract ex-Championship players, we could bring in some decent players to replace those who have been replaced. Aren’t the lowland league clubs who are doing that (namely East Kilbride and Kelty Hearts) being bankrolled though, not to the extent of Gretna but certainly throwing the cash about? That said I Obviously have no idea our budget. Paton had expressed a want to go part-time, so that’s probably why he’s down there (Erskine has expressed the same, so unless we phone him, I can see him playing his football down there next season). I think we may be able to attract some decent players, that have played at a decent level, such as a Paton, but even if we’d signed him, people would say it was a backwards step, he’s past it, he’s no good enough etc. The only alternative to attracting ex Premiership/Championship pros in their 30s, will be young guys making the step up from maybe League 2 or lower, of course they could well be the next Dools or Erskine. If we take it that all our players currently on the books, will be here next season, (give or take Cardle, who’s in discussions) how many are we likely to add this window? I think a winger or 2 (depending on Cardle status), at least another centre-half, full back cover/competition , an attacking-mid (Erskine or Erskine type) and a backup keeper, so that’s about 5 or so additions to the current squad, I can see. ETA: I feel pace is a must for any winger(s) we sign. Edited July 12, 2020 by JagsCG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagsCG Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said: I am very calm but totally pissed off that we are League One. Same, but I’m ready to fight to get back up, I hope the boys on the park have the same desire and determination to do just that, as all us fans do! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said: I am very calm but totally pissed off that we are League One. At least you've got a scapegoat for our current situation. The assistant manager. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said: IIRC Archie offered to resign but wanted his contract paid up in full. It was cheaper to keep him. In other words the severance package to which he was contractually entitled. Like someone in literally any walk of life would do any different if they had a family to look after and no obvious alternative form of employment lined-up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 hours ago, Ad Lib said: In other words the severance package to which he was contractually entitled. Like someone in literally any walk of life would do any different if they had a family to look after and no obvious alternative form of employment lined-up. If someone has no obvious alternate form of employment why would they hand in a resignation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamJags Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, gav-ffc said: If someone has no obvious alternate form of employment why would they hand in a resignation? He didn't though. He offered his resignation as he knew the general feeling around the club/fans was getting pretty hostile. The board did not accept the offer, as they effectively decided to act on a financial basis as opposed to a footballing one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, gav-ffc said: If someone has no obvious alternate form of employment why would they hand in a resignation? You cannot unilaterally resign from a contract of employment unless that contract itself allows for it. "Resigning" and "offering your resignation" and "mutually terminating a contract" are therefore all different. Archibald said at the end of that season, in effect "if you want a new manager to replace me, I will go provided you pay up my contract". The Club said "no we'd like to keep you on" for whatever reasons they might have had. Edited July 13, 2020 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 hours ago, dave.j said: At least you've got a scapegoat for our current situation. The assistant manager. McCall and Scally are to blame too but are you denying that Archibald has played a key role in both our recent relegations? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Dozens of people have played their part in the recent downfall of the club but the buck stops with those running the club (and past members like Maxwell). For example Caldwell was terrible for the club but I believe he did the job as well as he could, it's not his fault he was offered it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeMudge Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 For everyone blaming Archie for the fall, does he deserve credit for the rise? Was he a good manager when we got us in the top 6 and then became a bad manager? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cilitbang Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I think we should still be talking about Collins relegating us in 2003 tbh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said: McCall and Scally are to blame too but are you denying that Archibald has played a key role in both our recent relegations? He played a key role in our relegation from the Premiership. And it seems some would rather remember that (only that) and completely forget about the 5 or 6 years of success that came before it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad chad Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, dave.j said: He played a key role in our relegation from the Premiership. And it seems some would rather remember that (only that) and completely forget about the 5 or 6 years of success that came before it. Yeah, but our football got worse every season he was in charge. The top 6 finish hid a LOT of problems... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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