Mediocre Pundit Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 In all seriousness, how can we have any confidence in fair arbitration from the SFA when they’ve also just laid charges against us as part of the same case? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mediocre Pundit said: In all seriousness, how can we have any confidence in fair arbitration from the SFA when they’ve also just laid charges against us as part of the same case? Purely a bullying tactic to make us go away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Mediocre Pundit said: In all seriousness, how can we have any confidence in fair arbitration from the SFA when they’ve also just laid charges against us as part of the same case? 9 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Purely a bullying tactic to make us go away. Are you two just moon howling or do you genuinely believe this? The SFA have no say in the arbitration Are they supposed to not apply their own rules? Quote However, as a matter of law, the parties have agreed to the terms of SFA articles of association and to be bound by them Spoiler Edited July 15, 2020 by itzdrk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, itzdrk said: Are you two just moon howling or do you genuinely believe this? The SFA have no say in the arbitration Are they supposed to not apply their own rules? Reveal hidden contents Still obsessed with the Mighty Jags. Go and suck up to your Trump loving chairman. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Still obsessed with the Mighty Jags. Go and suck up to your Trump loving chairman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mediocre Pundit said: In all seriousness, how can we have any confidence in fair arbitration from the SFA when they’ve also just laid charges against us as part of the same case? The SFA aren't conducting the arbitration. The SPFL nominate someone, you and Hearts nominate someone, then those two nominate someone. The SFA aren't involved. Hearts and Partick clearly breached an obvious SFA law, there can be no debate they face punishment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 30 minutes ago, Mediocre Pundit said: In all seriousness, how can we have any confidence in fair arbitration from the SFA when they’ve also just laid charges against us as part of the same case? (1) They're not related. (2) The SFA has no meaningful control over the arbitration process. 2/3 of the arbitration panel is appointed by the direct parties to the dispute, the other 1/3 by their nominees, and the process is governed by the Arbitration (Scotland) Act not by the SFA or anyone associated with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Thanks for the informative replies (especially itzdrk...) - genuinely thought (in the limited attention I’m paying to the whole thing) that the ruling was for the SFA to arbitrate. So, what happens next? Or am I better going back to paying no attention until the season starts (when I’ll look for which league we’re playing in...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Did you guys not go to the court of session back in 2004 when ICT were promoted? If so what horrendous punishment did the SFA give you then for breaking its rules? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 45 minutes ago, Mediocre Pundit said: Thanks for the informative replies (especially itzdrk...) - genuinely thought (in the limited attention I’m paying to the whole thing) that the ruling was for the SFA to arbitrate. So, what happens next? Or am I better going back to paying no attention until the season starts (when I’ll look for which league we’re playing in...) Process One The arbitration panel will consist of one arbitrator nominated by Hearts/Thistle from a list of SFA-approved professional arbitrators one arbitrator nominated by the SPFL from the same list one arbitrator nominated by the other two arbitrators to chair the arbitration panel The arbitrators will examine the evidence put forward by the parties about the validity of the SPFL "End the Season" resolution and then decide, before August, whether any rules have been broken and what the consequences should be (e.g. total/partial annulment and/or an award of damages). The arbitration panel's decision is final, subject only to very limited right of appeal on the grounds of procedural defect in the tribunal itself. If the arbitration panel appears unable to reach a decision before August, Hearts and Thistle have been told they can take the issue back to the Court of Session so that they aren't prejudiced by any delays. It remains possible but unlikely that a settlement is reached between the parties which means the arbitration panel don't need to make a finding on the dispute. Process Two Hearts and Thistle commenced legal proceedings against the SPFL without first getting the consent of the SFA. On the face of it, that is a breach of Article 99 of the SFA. The SFA are, correctly, treating this as a disciplinary matter, and have written to Hearts and Thistle asking them to justify why they went to Court without asking permission first. They have given them until 20 July to explain themselves, and there will be a disciplinary hearing on 6 August (i.e. after the arbitration will have been wrapped up). If found to have breached the rules, the clubs could be fined, suspended and/or expelled from the SFA. If we are expelled from the SFA we cannot participate in SPFL/SFA competitions except e.g. by invitation like the Juniors in the Scottish Cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 59 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Did you guys not go to the court of session back in 2004 when ICT were promoted? If so what horrendous punishment did the SFA give you then for breaking its rules? The Arbitration (Scotland) Act 2010 didn't exist back then. The SFA's Articles will therefore not have been the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, Ad Lib said: The Arbitration (Scotland) Act 2010 didn't exist back then. The SFA's Articles will therefore not have been the same. I'm sure though that there was still a law in place barring clubs from taking the governing body to court which was clearly ignored back then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Shadwell Dog said: I'm sure though that there was still a law in place barring clubs from taking the governing body to court which was clearly ignored back then. There may well have been. I'm simply pointing out that the rules weren't the same so you can't say it's a definitive precedent simply because we happened not to be expelled on that occasion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ad Lib said: There may well have been. I'm simply pointing out that the rules weren't the same so you can't say it's a definitive precedent simply because we happened not to be expelled on that occasion. I'm sure partick first appealed to the sfa and then went to the court of session after that. It was another complete shambles and its obvious by recent events that nothing was learned from that debacle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: I'm sure partick first appealed to the sfa and then went to the court of session after that. It was another complete shambles and its obvious by recent events that nothing was learned from that debacle. Other way round After winning the original vote to avoid relegation, Hearts and Hibs (???) proposed a second vote, Partick went to court to try and get an interdict order and failed, they then lost that vote and the appeal to the SFA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, itzdrk said: Other way round After winning the original vote to avoid relegation, Hearts and Hibs (???) proposed a second vote, Partick went to court to try and get an interdict order and failed, they then lost that vote and the appeal to the SFA. Anyway there was no sanction applied for going to the court of session as far as I'm aware. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, Shadwell Dog said: Anyway there was no sanction applied for going to the court of session as far as I'm aware. Aye I can't see any, which I'm sure will be brought up should any be applied. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Chat of expulsion is highly unlikely. They'll be fined a reasonable amount and told not to do it again then hopefully we can all get back to talking about football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Jag Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I’m at the stage where I wouldn’t even care if they expelled us tbh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Reading between the lies it seems more a case that the SFA need to address this to meet their articles of association with UEFA. Expulsion is highly unlikely, probably a fine which range from paltry to about a two year contract for Kenny Miller... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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