The Partick Thistle thread

[Armand 2]

If there was any team that was going to be relegated thanks to an unprecedented global pandemic, it is Thistle. Schadenfreude is the lifeblood of Scottish football, though. Swings and roundabouts.

My initial reaction yesterday was: shitebags.

As the statement says, we have a history of ‘rolling with the punches’ and being detrimentally affected by on-the-hop rule changes from the league authorities. And just like the last time, despite making an initial fuss, we appear to have sloped off with our tail between our legs.

After a 10/10 knock-out effort on 14 April, that statement reverts to the wet blanket pish that our board are more comfortable knocking out. What exactly did they expect when they published that legal opinion on Tuesday? How did we go from “simply not accepting” relegation to rolling over and having our belly tickled, promising to be “ready to play, regardless of the league we are in” and vowing to “right this wrong”?

This was the best chance any club has had to hold the SPFL to account and show them up for the sham organisation that they are. We’re now back to the petulant public point scoring that we’ll be subjected to between them and Rangers from now until the media forgets about it.

The legal opinion supplied some pretty damning evidence that the SPFL had breached its own constitution. It provided case law that Dundee’s vote must stand and therefore the resolution fails. It showed that the SPFL had the option of supplying financial support to clubs but concealed it. They were, as various sources said, “spooked” by the piece. Why would a compliant organisation be troubled by such opinion unless there were massive, gaping holes in their approach?

I don’t have much faith in the Thistle board but surely to Christ they haven’t ceded on the promise of a reconstruction that will never happen. We’ve already got the tin-pot armies of Clyde and Forfar greeting that it’ll cause significant cash deficits in budgets – budgets that were only confirmed yesterday, haven’t been spent and are apparently not based on large travelling supports from Thistle and Falkirk.

So how can you go from such a position of defiance to meek acquiescence in 2 days? Because we’re afraid of causing harm to other clubs? Save me the saviour routine. We knew those risks when the opinion was published fucking 48 hours earlier. It’s not difficult to arrive at the conclusion that we’ve been paid to shut up. Even so, this “we’re debt free” line won’t age very well in the seaside leagues.

In conclusion, my reaction today is the same as yesterday: $hit£bag$.

On a purely footballing note, there was diminishing evidence by the week that this team was capable of pulling themselves out of the hole they’d made – not that, in any way, does that condone being relegated in the fashion we have. It has saved some fairly close scrutiny of the job that McCall has done. This “my club” narrative, already becoming somewhat tiresome, will become barely tolerable if we’re getting pumped by Cove Rangers or Montrose. He fancies himself as a modern-day Lambie so here’s his chance to match his achievement.

[Stan Butler Says]

On this point, as a genuine question:  Do any Thistle fans on here dispute it?
I'll confidently say that had Thistle recently beaten us, sending us bottom, we'd have voted differently.  
Would Thistle really have voted in the same way that they ultimately did, had that happened?

No-one knows how Thistle would have voted in these circumstances - however there is a genuine argument that we would have voted “no”, citing the same solidarity arguments as ITC, East Fife, and one or two others. Evidence for this can be found in the sanctimonious wind in our surrender statement - our board and much of our support really do see us as a Special Club, carrying the torch of love for all humanity in all our dealings. We really are Nice People - and a complete push-over, which was surely uppermost in the minds of the SPFL when they discussed shafting us as part of their grand plans. You should take a look at the wearethistle forum - there are Thistle fans glorying in our wonderfulness, as we plummet to the third tier of scottish football.

[theundisputedvoiceofreason]

44 minutes ago, Stan Butler Says said:

No-one knows how Thistle would have voted in these circumstances - however there is a genuine argument that we would have voted “no”, citing the same solidarity arguments as ITC, East Fife, and one or two others. Evidence for this can be found in the sanctimonious wind in our surrender statement - our board and much of our support really do see us as a Special Club, carrying the torch of love for all humanity in all our dealings. We really are Nice People - and a complete push-over, which was surely uppermost in the minds of the SPFL when they discussed shafting us as part of their grand plans. You should take a look at the wearethistle forum - there are Thistle fans glorying in our wonderfulness, as we plummet to the third tier of scottish football.

It's fair to say that we may have voted YES. However as a fan of football I would have lambasted it for the exact same reasons as many non PTFC fans have. Of course being fitba other fans will take the chance to put the boot in, but at the same time knowing the decision to relegate us in these circumstances is corrupt. With regard to thistle fans glorifying this you either cant read or are being deliberately selective. 

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Armand 2 said:

As the statement says, we have a history of ‘rolling with the punches’ and being detrimentally affected by on-the-hop rule changes from the league authorities

Genuine question; what are you referring to?

1 hour ago, Stan Butler Says said:

however there is a genuine argument that we would have voted “no”, citing the same solidarity arguments as ITC, East Fife, and one or two others.

No there isn't.

31 minutes ago, theundisputedvoiceofreason said:

the decision to relegate us in these circumstances is corrupt

 No it isn't.

[Stan Butler Says]

It's fair to say that we may have voted YES. However as a fan of football I would have lambasted it for the exact same reasons as many non PTFC fans have. Of course being fitba other fans will take the chance to put the boot in, but at the same time knowing the decision to relegate us in these circumstances is corrupt. With regard to thistle fans glorifying this you either cant read or are being deliberately selective. 

I am afraid you are the one with reading difficulties - the word is “glorying” , not “glorifying”. It’s the present participle of the verb “glory”. Otherwise you are correct in that I was indeed deliberately selective. Anyway we are where we are , and we now have to place our slim hopes in the rotweillers at Hearts saving our skins .

[Savage Henry]

 No it isn't.

Right. It could be incompetent, it could be foolish, but it isn’t corrupt. And that, I think, is why Partick Thistle aren’t taking this any further.

[Armand 2]

42 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Genuine question; what are you referring to?

In 2003/04, we were relegated from the Premier after the SPL as it was then, decided to propose changing the admission criteria after the season had ended. This resulted in Inverness gaining promotion by ground-sharing with Aberdeen - an arrangement that had been deemed unacceptable the season before when Falkirk won the league and proposed to play at Airdrie for a season whilst they built a stadium.

It was voted down at first but then out of the blue, Hibs (who the SPL chairman at the time, Lex Gold, had close links with) and Hearts came back to the table with another proposal which was voted through. We made a song and dance about it for a while, threatened legal action but were told, like Falkirk before, that there were no grounds for appeal. So off we fucked as our chairman at the time claimed the football would be better in the First Division - before we got relegated again.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, theundisputedvoiceofreason said:

It's fair to say that we may have voted YES. However as a fan of football I would have lambasted it for the exact same reasons as many non PTFC fans have. Of course being fitba other fans will take the chance to put the boot in, but at the same time knowing the decision to relegate us in these circumstances is corrupt. With regard to thistle fans glorifying this you either cant read or are being deliberately selective. 

It's not corrupt.

That's just silly.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Armand 2 said:

In 2003/04, we were relegated from the Premier after the SPL as it was then, decided to propose changing the admission criteria after the season had ended. This resulted in Inverness gaining promotion by ground-sharing with Aberdeen - an arrangement that had been deemed unacceptable the season before when Falkirk won the league and proposed to play at Airdrie for a season whilst they built a stadium.

It was voted down at first but then out of the blue, Hibs (who the SPL chairman at the time, Lex Gold, had close links with) and Hearts came back to the table with another proposal which was voted through. We made a song and dance about it for a while, threatened legal action but were told, like Falkirk before, that there were no grounds for appeal. So off we fucked as our chairman at the time claimed the football would be better in the First Division - before we got relegated again.

No sympathy there.

The scandal concerned what happened the previous season.

[Armand 2]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

No sympathy there.

The scandal concerned what happened the previous season.

Don't disagree - Falkirk should absolutely have been promoted and Motherwell relegated. The rules should have been changed then. But they weren't. Teams agree to compete in a competition based on a set of rules. They can't just be changed on a whim. Apart from in Scottish football.

[jagfox]

14 minutes ago, Armand 2 said:

In 2003/04, we were relegated from the Premier after the SPL as it was then, decided to propose changing the admission criteria after the season had ended. This resulted in Inverness gaining promotion by ground-sharing with Aberdeen - an arrangement that had been deemed unacceptable the season before when Falkirk won the league and proposed to play at Airdrie for a season whilst they built a stadium.

It was voted down at first but then out of the blue, Hibs (who the SPL chairman at the time, Lex Gold, had close links with) and Hearts came back to the table with another proposal which was voted through. We made a song and dance about it for a while, threatened legal action but were told, like Falkirk before, that there were no grounds for appeal. So off we fucked as our chairman at the time claimed the football would be better in the First Division - before we got relegated again.

We took it to court but they said it was a sporting matter and referred us back to the football authorities.

===============

The Player's Perspective - SPFL: 'It's such a mess... relegation has blown my mind'

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Armand 2 said:

Don't disagree - Falkirk should absolutely have been promoted and Motherwell relegated. The rules should have been changed then. But they weren't. Teams agree to compete in a competition based on a set of rules. They can't just be changed on a whim. Apart from in Scottish football.

The whole SPL project was a disgraceful exercise, start to finish.  

I don't quite accept that rules have been changed "on a whim" this time though.  I think it was in response to that bug that's been going around.  A change of some sort was necessary. 

Your club has obviously lost out in this respect, but there's nothing whimsical or arbitrary about the change that emerged.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The whole SPL project was a disgraceful exercise, start to finish.  

I don't quite accept that rules have been changed "on a whim" this time though.  I think it was in response to that bug that's been going around.  A change of some sort was necessary. 

Your club has obviously lost out in this respect, but there's nothing whimsical or arbitrary about the change that emerged.

If they had taken the decision to end the season 2 days later, then your own team could quite conceivably have been the ones relegated rather than Partick and I'd doubt very much if you'd all have shrugged it off quite so easily as you're making out.

For the record, I still think it's a disgraceful decision (and that's coming from an Ayr fan), however with Scottish football and the horse trading which goes on, it's maybe too early to think anything's done and dusted as the spectre of "league reconstruction" is still hanging around and I'm sure we wont have heard the last of it yet. 

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, Stan Butler Says said:

Our board and much of our support really do see us as a Special Club, carrying the torch of love for all humanity in all our dealings. We really are Nice People - and a complete push-over, which was surely uppermost in the minds of the SPFL when they discussed shafting us as part of their grand plans. 

I take it you're being amusing here?

Did the SPFL also consider the friendly, easy going cooperative natures of those at Stranraer, Falkirk, Hearts and - God help us - Rangers, when hatching such grand plans?

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

If they had taken the decision to end the season 2 days later, then your own team could quite conceivably have been the ones relegated rather than Partick and I'd doubt very much if you'd all have shrugged it off quite so easily as you're making out.

A few hours might have done it.  We were due to play your lot on the Friday that saw the plug pulled.  I'd imagine a defeat, or maybe even a draw - I've not worked it out - would have taken our points per game average below Thistle's.

You'll not catch me claiming that we've been anything other than bloody lucky here.  I do however totally reject the suggestion that Thistle have been singled out for punishment, or that the method worked out is absolutely outrageous and unfathomable.  

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

A few hours might have done it.  We were due to play your lot on the Friday that saw the plug pulled.  I'd imagine a defeat, or maybe even a draw - I've not worked it out - would have taken our points per game average below Thistle's.

You'll not catch me claiming that we've been anything other than bloody lucky here.  I do however totally reject the suggestion that Thistle have been singled out for punishment, or that the method worked out is absolutely outrageous and unfathomable.  

I don't think they've been "singled out" in any way, but I do feel they've been very harshly treated. By the same token if we had beaten you on the Friday night and Queens had ended up relegated after being out of the bottom two for the whole season, then again I'd have felt that it was disgraceful.

I know there's extenuating circumstances but the league season is played over 36 matches and shouldn't be a footballing version of musical chairs otherwise it just turns the whole thing into a farce.

[DA Baracus]

3 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

I don't think they've been "singled out" in any way, but I do feel they've been very harshly treated. By the same token if we had beaten you on the Friday night and Queens had ended up relegated after being out of the bottom two for the whole season, then again I'd have felt that it was disgraceful.

I know there's extenuating circumstances but the league season is played over 36 matches and shouldn't be a footballing version of musical chairs otherwise it just turns the whole thing into a farce.

If only there was a reason the season can't be completed...

[DA Baracus]

56 minutes ago, Armand 2 said:

In 2003/04, we were relegated from the Premier after the SPL as it was then, decided to propose changing the admission criteria after the season had ended. This resulted in Inverness gaining promotion by ground-sharing with Aberdeen - an arrangement that had been deemed unacceptable the season before when Falkirk won the league and proposed to play at Airdrie for a season whilst they built a stadium.

It was voted down at first but then out of the blue, Hibs (who the SPL chairman at the time, Lex Gold, had close links with) and Hearts came back to the table with another proposal which was voted through. We made a song and dance about it for a while, threatened legal action but were told, like Falkirk before, that there were no grounds for appeal. So off we fucked as our chairman at the time claimed the football would be better in the First Division - before we got relegated again.

But didn't you finish bottom that year? 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

If only there was a reason the season can't be completed...

It CAN be completed, it just doesn't have to be now.

[DA Baracus]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

It CAN be completed, it just doesn't have to be now.

It can't be completed.

If we wait then there won't be teams around to complete it. This has all been covered before.