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8 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

Also, pretty ridiculous to say a guy who somehow managed to get Thistle into the top six is suddenly absolutely hopeless.

While it's not as black and white as that, "hopeless" is pretty much exactly what he's looked like.  He seems to be completely out of ideas this season in most facets.

9 hours ago, Im_Rodger said:

I would take Archie over Canning.

Archie seems the kind of manager that would take no shite from any of our players.

Canning can’t look Imrie or Mackinnon in the eye.

I know what you're getting at, but he's just taken a whole season's worth of shite from our players, so I wouldn't be too confident in that.

1 hour ago, jagfox99 said:

I'm slightly concerned that unless Archie offers his resignation the board will continue with the status quo going into next season as if anything our home support has gone up over the last few games...

I could definitely see him being in charge for at least the start of next season.  I always said that if we did go down, I'd be slightly more inclined to keep him than if we stayed up.  Him presiding over us being completely outclassed most weeks is going to change next season with different opponents (and by change, I don't necessarily mean we'll start playing like the Harlem Globetrotters, it's just going to be different).  He's never quite taken to being able to build a squad that can truly compete.  Although we got top 6, we did so because he were the best of a group of teams that are far behind the top 5.  It was no surprise to see us get absolutely ridden for 5 games post-split.  If after this week the board decides to really rebuild, I'd be more confident in Archie being able to build a squad to cope with Championship football than to cope with, let's be frank, much better teams.

But that all needs to be liberally sprinkled with hope to work.  I think it's probably time for him to step aside.  He's done a lot for us, but I'm not sure what he's got left to give.  

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We're in a pretty awful position right now.

We are already a few weeks behind other clubs in terms of recruitment and contract renewls due to being involved with the playoffs.

A new manager would only work if we had brought him in before the playoffs so he would have an idea of who to target by now.

It has to be Archie for the start of the season and see how it goes till towards the end of the year (so if a new manager comes in, has time to asses squad before transfer window)

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4 minutes ago, forameus said:

While it's not as black and white as that, "hopeless" is pretty much exactly what he's looked like.  He seems to be completely out of ideas this season in most facets.

My feeling is that he gambled this season and it didn't pay off. We started the season with a lot of injuries and he gambled thinking that what we had would keep us in it and the returning players would propel us up the table. In January we had players coming back but we were already in the shit. He gambled again that the players coming back were like new signings.  There weren't, they underperformed and were inconsistent in the way players returning from injury often are.

I still feel we have some decent players but the balance was totally off, starting at the core. At centre back and centre midfield there was never any confidence this season and our only leaders are the quiet ones that focus on their own game to lead the way.

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2 minutes ago, partick_twinny said:

My feeling is that he gambled this season and it didn't pay off. We started the season with a lot of injuries and he gambled thinking that what we had would keep us in it and the returning players would propel us up the table. In January we had players coming back but we were already in the shit. He gambled again that the players coming back were like new signings.  There weren't, they underperformed and were inconsistent in the way players returning from injury often are.

This. His argument was he had no natural LB/LWB for his style of play. So you would assume once he got Penrice (then Booth) back, he would actualy play them...

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Archibald may actually work better with a smaller squad. 

Our total lack of consistency of selection was very telling.

I guess he's due a payoff so that would see the board sticking with Him for the start of the season...

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Under contract
Tomas Cerny
Jamie Sneddon
Niall Keown
James Penrice
Adam Barton
Blair Spittal
Christie Elliott
Chris Erskine
Ryan Edwards
Andrew McCarthy
Kris Doolan
Miles Storey

Out of contract
Ryan Scully
Danny Devine
Callum Booth
Paul McGinn
Mustapha Dumbuya
Stuart Bannigan
Abdul Osman
Gary Fraser
Martin Woods
Steven Lawless
Kevin Nisbet

End of Loan
Conor Sammon
Baily Cargill

I think that's about right. Relegation clauses could see a few more move on too.

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Out of those under contract I'd punt Edwards and Barton if we can find someone to take them and suspect Keown won't want to stick around. Out of those out of contract the only one I'll miss is Lawless.

Based on absolutely nothing he's ever done for us but I'd like to keep Storey and actually play him up front to see if he is worth keeping around to save having to go out and sign another striker.

I genuinely can't believe it's 11am the day after we are down and Archie is still in charge.

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Can’t wait to see the back of almost all of that out of contract list.

Lawless the only one I’d make any effort whatsoever to keep. If Archie is still around (:shutup) I think Bannigan might get another chance as well.

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Archie made it clear that all the players under contract  had relegation clauses. If the wages get reduced can they leave on free's or can they be kept on reduced money because they agreed to having that written in the contract.  Anybody know?  Think we are gonna see a barrel load of departures in the next few days, which might not be a bad thing considering the way we have performed this season. There has been a staleness running through the club this season. Place needs gutting!

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Just now, Sting777 said:

Archie made it clear that all the players under contract  had relegation clauses. If the wages get reduced can they leave on free's or can they be kept on reduced money because they agreed to having that written in the contract.  Anybody know?  Think we are gonna see a barrel load of departures in the next few days, which might not be a bad thing considering the way we have performed this season. There has been a staleness running through the club this season. Place needs gutting!

The wage drop clauses will have been signed by the players so will have to take the drop in wages on the chin or fight for a move. After watching how poor the majority of the players were yesterday I wouldn't stand in many of their ways if they wanted to leave. 

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7 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Can’t wait to see the back of almost all of that out of contract list.

Lawless the only one I’d make any effort whatsoever to keep. If Archie is still around (:shutup) I think Bannigan might get another chance as well.

Don't think we will now be in a position to continually pay wages to guys that are not going to kick a ball for season upon season.  Would hope that if Bannigan and/or Fraser are kept on it will be on a pay as you play basis, certainly for at least 6 months, until their fitness has been shown. Would be disappointed if they wouldn't accept that given the way the club has supported them. A fully fit Fraser and Bannigan would be a massive bonus next season.

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8 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

Archie made it clear that all the players under contract  had relegation clauses. If the wages get reduced can they leave on free's or can they be kept on reduced money because they agreed to having that written in the contract.  Anybody know?  Think we are gonna see a barrel load of departures in the next few days, which might not be a bad thing considering the way we have performed this season. There has been a staleness running through the club this season. Place needs gutting!

Contracts aren't up until 31 May I think so might be a wait for official news of departures...

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Gutted to see you go down.  One of the best away days replaced by a tinpot town, club and stadium. Hope to see you in a cup and if not see you next season. 

Edited by Raphael
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Might be me looking to much into it, but going by Lawless' tweet last night, I would guess that he'll be away. Wouldn't grudge him it either, has been one of the few decent (if occasionally inconsistent) performers since joining, no matter where he's been asked to play. He should be playing Premiership football next season.

A lot of that list can get so far to f**k, though. Starting with Danny Devine.

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Scunnered barely covers it.

Torn over Archie. I know that many will want him gone and I'm not sure that I disagree. To see him walk away on the back of failure having enjoyed the success he has would be sore though.

The main argument for relieving him of his duties would obviously be the fact he's oversaw such a shambolic season. His recruitment has been appalling as has his failure to rectify our midfield all season long. He admitted in the Jagzone interview that the team he put out for the first half of the season was one he wasn't happy with and one that was put out to just try to get through games - I find that a pretty damning indictment on his own recruitment. However, if this was the case, his utter failure to rectify it in January was sheer negligence. 

His team has looked woefully short of desire and invention, and things that they allegedly practice on the training ground (such as defending Livingston's throw-ins) haven't translated to the pitch. The admission on Thursday that the team played in a manner that he didn't direct was very concerning. 

He has leaned heavily on players that were already at the club when he took over and after this season especially, I don't have much confidence that he's capable of building a squad that will get promotion. But that said, he's won the division as a player and manager, and knows what it takes.

I know this isn't a basis to keep a manager but there's no potential candidate that enthuses me. Folk suggesting Jim McIntyre should away and take their face for shite. Robbie Neilson might have been a shout if we had stayed up and the job was available but I can't see him dropping to the Championship for a gig.

No matter, his legendary status is untouchable for me and many others. He must be kicking himself that he never walked away last year.

In terms of squad retention, I would have liked Lawless to stay on but expect he'll get a Premier club - was the best player on the park yesterday and would have been a big player in the Championship. I'd give Bannigan another deal, be it for 6 or 12 months; if he's fit, he'll be a mainstay. Everybody else out of contract can go take a run and jump, particularly Martin Woods; haven't disliked one of our own players as much for a long time. A charlatan if ever I saw one.

Of those contracted, I expect Barton and Storey will almost certainly be away. Would like to chase Spittal out the door too. Non-plussed about Edwards or Keown. Cerny has slowed down massively in the last year, his kicking has regressed even further and I wouldn't be as disappointed to see him leave as I might have been in the past.

Penrice and McCarthy should be two of the first names on the team-sheet next year. I'd also like to see young Lamont and McLaughlin brought back into the squad after their loan spells. 

Irrespective of manager, first guy through the door should be Chris Millar. A proper central midfielder, a winner and a model pro. Something we've been lacking in there all season.

Finally, I'll be rather surprised if the training ground comes to fruition now. If memory serves me correctly, the Weirs' agreed to purchase the land and construct the facility which they would then lease back to the club who would be responsible for the running costs. These would have been costed on a Premier League budget. I also rather think the stony silence on the whole subject since around Christmas time when relegation started to look like a possibility tells its own story. Yes, we might bounce back at the first time of asking but history tells us that is unlikely.

It's a heartache following the Partick.

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2 hours ago, forameus said:

While it's not as black and white as that, "hopeless" is pretty much exactly what he's looked like.  He seems to be completely out of ideas this season in most facets.

I know what you're getting at, but he's just taken a whole season's worth of shite from our players, so I wouldn't be too confident in that.

I could definitely see him being in charge for at least the start of next season.  I always said that if we did go down, I'd be slightly more inclined to keep him than if we stayed up.  Him presiding over us being completely outclassed most weeks is going to change next season with different opponents (and by change, I don't necessarily mean we'll start playing like the Harlem Globetrotters, it's just going to be different).  He's never quite taken to being able to build a squad that can truly compete.  Although we got top 6, we did so because he were the best of a group of teams that are far behind the top 5.  It was no surprise to see us get absolutely ridden for 5 games post-split.  If after this week the board decides to really rebuild, I'd be more confident in Archie being able to build a squad to cope with Championship football than to cope with, let's be frank, much better teams.

But that all needs to be liberally sprinkled with hope to work.  I think it's probably time for him to step aside.  He's done a lot for us, but I'm not sure what he's got left to give.  

Normally wouldn't care a jot about Partick Thistle but your endless nitpicking and abuse on another topic has undoubtedly inspired an emotion of schadenfreude following my predicted demotion.

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2 hours ago, forameus said:

I could definitely see him being in charge for at least the start of next season.  I always said that if we did go down, I'd be slightly more inclined to keep him than if we stayed up.  Him presiding over us being completely outclassed most weeks is going to change next season with different opponents (and by change, I don't necessarily mean we'll start playing like the Harlem Globetrotters, it's just going to be different).  He's never quite taken to being able to build a squad that can truly compete.  Although we got top 6, we did so because he were the best of a group of teams that are far behind the top 5.  It was no surprise to see us get absolutely ridden for 5 games post-split.  If after this week the board decides to really rebuild, I'd be more confident in Archie being able to build a squad to cope with Championship football than to cope with, let's be frank, much better teams.

Image result for confused gif

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I'm definitely looking forward to Adam Barton's interview with the local paper of whatever English League 2 dross he signs for where he rips into Thistle/ the fans / Glasgow  / Scotland. "yeah, the first season was OK, but then...."

I'm definitely in the "go" camp now, if I wasn't before, regarding the manager. There's obviously a lot of clearing out needing done and a new manager would have plenty of spaces to bring in his own team. I know international football is different in terms of recruitment but staying would be similar to Scotland giving Vogts, Levein etc the start of a new campaign and then 1/3 of the way in realise it's fucked already. We'd also undoubtedly sign one or both of Bannigan and Fraser only to release them in January after another 6 months out injured.

Of the players out of contract I thought Lawless and at a push Booth would be the only ones who would get a Premiership gig, I assumed Osman would be off down south to be closer to his family / the Pogbas, and I assume only family connections has led to St Mirren re-signing McGinn as he's not good enough for that level.

It'll be interesting to see how many holes the Weirs were plugging and whether the appetite to fund the youth academy, never mind the training ground, continues. A fairly poor return so far, and surely we've got to be looking to have more guys who can play at first team level in the Championship (hint: not Kevin Nisbet)

I'm hoping Ayr and Alloa being in the league means the worst-case scenario for next season is 8th :unsure:

edit: bring on Coleraine / Bangor away, providing we don't lose to Livingston Colts...

 

Edited by Fuctifano
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58 minutes ago, GrahamJags said:

Might be me looking to much into it, but going by Lawless' tweet last night, I would guess that he'll be away. Wouldn't grudge him it either, has been one of the few decent (if occasionally inconsistent) performers since joining, no matter where he's been asked to play. He should be playing Premiership football next season.

A lot of that list can get so far to f**k, though. Starting with Danny Devine.

There's a saints fan on WeArePerth adamant  Lawless has already signed a pre-contract with Saints. 

Certainly not something I'd heard mentioned before so could be total nonsense. Could it be true? - soon find out! 

Edited by Mr Positive, sometimes.
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