Jump to content

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, K77 said:

It's just badly worded. I believe the land is owned by Thistle, see additional bold text that is missing from the BBC article snip below.

The land purchased from Firhill Developments is the south terrace area and main stand and it will revert back to full Thistle ownership after 10 years (of Propco ownership) under the terms of the deal.

 

Where does that come from?

 

Firhill Developments was incorporated Jan 2009. 11 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Went to the Queens game today. Somehow they seem more hopeless than us. If we can't beat them on Tuesday just liquidate us.
Seconded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turns out the Land Registry shows absolutely no record of Three Black Cats (3BC) having transferred the Bing and Main Stand back to the Club (PTFC Ltd), more than 3 months after they said that they'd do it "within 7 days".

This effectively means, contrary to what 3BC said in November 2019, that the Club actually holds less of an interest in its stadium now than it did between 2009 and 2019. This is because the Club had owned an (almost) half share in PropCo itself. Admittedly, the Club will likely be entitled to about (though probably in practice slightly less than) half of the proceeds of the sale of PropCo's land to the 3BC, giving it a capital injection of something slightly shy of a million.

It also means (as someone else has helpfully pointed out to me) that PropCo's original investors will probably only just about make their money back from 2009, and might even make a slight loss, because their (slightly less than) £1 million share of the proceeds will be roughly what they put in to the club back in 2009. By putting that money in, they saved the Club hundreds of thousands of pounds of interest payments over 10 years, and would have made more money for themselves if they'd just stuck the money away in a poorly performing personal savings' account a decade ago (and with less risk).

Meanwhile, 3BC now owns outright half of Thistle's stadium whereas previously the Club had owned a (slightly less than half) share in the half of the stadium it didn't own outright.

If I were a cynic, and I am a cynic, I think 3BC is going to use the fact that PropCo is being wound up, and that the Club is about to get a capital injection from its distribution of assets, to hide the fact that Jacqui Low has sanctioned high levels of spending. It's going to be presented as a "continuing commitment to the club" when actually it's basically sold off some of the Club's interest in the stadium to support current expenditure.

The Bing and the Main Stand will, I suspect, not be returned to the Club, and will instead be used as an insurance policy in case things go belly-up for 3BC in about 1-2 years' time, once it has also become clear and as good as official that its shares in the Club aren't going to be transferred to a fan-controlled entity after all.

We were either deliberately lied to on 21 November 2019, or something significant and relevant changed to justify a more than three month delay to a routine transaction.

As another helpful poster elsewhere has pointed out, the whole idea of 3BC buying the land just to gift it to the club again was a bizarre way to structure the transaction anyway (from a tax perspective) as it increases liability on Land and Buildings Transactions Tax. The only reason it would make sense is if 3BC intended to hold on to the land for rather longer than 7 days, and for its own benefit, rather than for it to be a humble and temporary holding position for the Club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny you say that. A few non Thistle friends have suggested to me on various occasions, Weir's involvement from day 1 was for nothing more than Tax puropses.

Why set up a separate entity Thistle Weir.

Why build a training complex, still own it and rent it to the Club you love?

He had more money than a horse could shite, but now we are being fed the line that the Training Complex could not go ahead because that ringfenced cash got used to buy the club. To fulfill his dream of fan ownership .. a dream incidentally, he'd never had, until foreign investors wanted to get involved.

 

 

Edited by dave.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

Turns out the Land Registry shows absolutely no record of Three Black Cats (3BC) having transferred the Bing and Main Stand back to the Club (PTFC Ltd), more than 3 months after they said that they'd do it "within 7 days".

This effectively means, contrary to what 3BC said in November 2019, that the Club actually holds less of an interest in its stadium now than it did between 2009 and 2019. This is because the Club had owned an (almost) half share in PropCo itself. Admittedly, the Club will likely be entitled to about (though probably in practice slightly less than) half of the proceeds of the sale of PropCo's land to the 3BC, giving it a capital injection of something slightly shy of a million.

It also means (as someone else has helpfully pointed out to me) that PropCo's original investors will probably only just about make their money back from 2009, and might even make a slight loss, because their (slightly less than) £1 million share of the proceeds will be roughly what they put in to the club back in 2009. By putting that money in, they saved the Club hundreds of thousands of pounds of interest payments over 10 years, and would have made more money for themselves if they'd just stuck the money away in a poorly performing personal savings' account a decade ago (and with less risk).

Meanwhile, 3BC now owns outright half of Thistle's stadium whereas previously the Club had owned a (slightly less than half) share in the half of the stadium it didn't own outright.

If I were a cynic, and I am a cynic, I think 3BC is going to use the fact that PropCo is being wound up, and that the Club is about to get a capital injection from its distribution of assets, to hide the fact that Jacqui Low has sanctioned high levels of spending. It's going to be presented as a "continuing commitment to the club" when actually it's basically sold off some of the Club's interest in the stadium to support current expenditure.

The Bing and the Main Stand will, I suspect, not be returned to the Club, and will instead be used as an insurance policy in case things go belly-up for 3BC in about 1-2 years' time, once it has also become clear and as good as official that its shares in the Club aren't going to be transferred to a fan-controlled entity after all.

We were either deliberately lied to on 21 November 2019, or something significant and relevant changed to justify a more than three month delay to a routine transaction.

As another helpful poster elsewhere has pointed out, the whole idea of 3BC buying the land just to gift it to the club again was a bizarre way to structure the transaction anyway (from a tax perspective) as it increases liability on Land and Buildings Transactions Tax. The only reason it would make sense is if 3BC intended to hold on to the land for rather longer than 7 days, and for its own benefit, rather than for it to be a humble and temporary holding position for the Club.

This is exactly what I feared would happen.

The club effectively is worth significantly less (asset wise) as its 75% share of Firhill is now 50%

3BC appear to have taken a lot for a ride here and its high time the fans reps on the board reported back to their members via the PTFC Trust. If they won’t they should resign

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, thenolly said:

This is exactly what I feared would happen.

The club effectively is worth significantly less (asset wise) as its 75% share of Firhill is now 50%

3BC appear to have taken a lot for a ride here and its high time the fans reps on the board reported back to their members via the PTFC Trust. If they won’t they should resign

Just who are the members of the PTFC Trust? I pay annually to the Jags Trust so I know I'm a member of that.  But the other trust?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ScottyG said:

Just who are the members of the PTFC Trust? I pay annually to the Jags Trust so I know I'm a member of that.  But the other trust?

Every season ticket holder, but at election time they never balloted most and they have made no statements in months

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, thenolly said:

Every season ticket holder, but at election time they never balloted most and they have made no statements in months

Don't forget they also sent ballot papers to under 16s to vote which is against their own rules alongisde not sending out papers to a large number of eligible voters. Two of those in charge at the time are now on the club's board.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never let it be said that following Thistle is dull.

Foreign investors show an interest in Thistle

A small group of fans decide this is no way to go and start a movement for Fan Ownership - TfE.

TfE shows little uplift, pledges are low and the majority of fans make it clear that Fan Ownership is not really something they want for the Club.

Without any prior indication that he was an avid fan of Fan Ownership, Colin Weir backs TfE. The only issue is, it's a completely different Proposal to the one TfE suggested to the fans. Now (when previously one wasn't required) Colin Weir/3BC will act as a go between, taking temporary ownership of the Shares for 4 months whilst the newly formed Working Group build and put forward a proposal that meets 3BC's requirements to what they deem as a suitable way for the fans to own their OWN Club. why there was a sudden requirement for the shares to be bought and held by 3BC's, only TfE know. 

As the sale goes through, 3BC's confirm they will buy and return the Propco Land to the Club within 7 days - The Training Complex is still going ahead.

3BC's appoint their own Interim Board including a couple of folk from The Trust set up by Colin Weir, on the back of him previously buying some shares.

Only 1 member of TfE is appointed to the Interim Board.

Colin Weir suddenly, sadly dies. and what happens next, to some, beggars belief... for 4 WEEKS, the Press is filled with tributes as Weir's takeover and transfer to fan ownership is lauded up and down the Country. Weir is proclaimed the "Saviour" of Partick Thistle, i kid you not, our Saviour!!! what we needed saved from, no one is sure and so the wheels are set in motion as Colin's "legacy" must be fulfilled so that we can "realise his dream" of fan ownership. all the while a PR Spin exercise is set in full motion that would see the greatest comeback since Lazurus.

Who said smoke n mirrors? The land is still not transferred to the Club.

3BC's  owns 50% of the Club's land. and it's now being stated that the Training Ground won't go ahead, it turns out that 3BC had originally sold us a pup. they never had enough money to do both. deciding without consultation to jack the training ground in favour of Fan Ownership(which carries little support). I've no idea what would have influenced Colin Weir to suddenly become a cheerleader for Fan Ownership. 

February's quite a quiet month, but that doesn't last long. Half 4 on the last Friday of the month, the interim Board announce the news that absolutely no one was surprised about. Our former Chairman Jacqui Low has returned to take control of the Club, apparently guys like Charan Gill and those 3BC appointed to the Interim Board have suddenly became incapable of Chairing meetings... despite having done so for the last couple of months.

along side this, an announcement that the Club will be meeting with the Working Group to revise the timetable for handover, yet again comes as absolutely no surprise to anyone. i'm going to be honest, i've no idea why there would need to be a revised date for handover.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by dave.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, dave.j said:

Never let it be said that following Thistle is dull.

Foreign investors show an interest in Thistle

A small group of fans decide this is no way to go and start a movement for Fan Ownership - TfE.

TfE shows little uplift, pledges are low and the majority of fans make it clear that Fan Ownership is not really something they want for the Club.

Without any prior indication that he was an avid fan of Fan Ownership, Colin Weir backs TfE. The only issue is, it's a completely different Proposal to the one TfE suggested to the fans. Now (when previously one wasn't required) Colin Weir/TfE will act as a go between, taking temporary ownership of the Shares for 4 months whilst the newly formed Working Group build and put forward a proposal that meets 3BC's requirements to what they deem as a suitable way for the fans to own their Club. why there was a sudden requirement for the shares to be bought and held by 3BC's, only TfE know. 

As the sale goes through, 3BC's confirm they will buy and return the Propco Land to the Club within 7 days - The Training Complex is still going ahead.

3BC's appoint their own interim board including a couple of folk from The Trust set up by Colin Weir on the back of him previously buying some shares.

Only 1 member of TfE is appointed to the interim board.

Colin Weir suddenly, sadly dies. and what happens next, to some, beggars belief... for 4 WEEKS, the Press is filled with tributes as Weir's takeover and transfer to fan ownership is lauded up and down the Country. Weir is proclaimed the "Saviour" of Partick Thistle, i kid you not, our Saviour!!! what we needed saved from, no one is sure and so the wheels are set in motion as Colin's "legacy" must be fulfilled so that we can "realise his dream" of fan ownership. all the while a PR Spin exercise is set in full motion that would see the greatest comeback since Lazurus.

Who said smoke n mirrors? The land is still not transferred to the Club.

3BC's one remaining owner owns 50% of the Club's land. and it's now being stated that the Training Ground won't go ahead, it turns out that 3BC had originally sold us a pup. they never had enough money to do both. deciding without consultation to jack the training ground in favour of Fan Ownership(which carries little support). I've no idea what would have influenced Colin Weir to suddenly become a cheerleader for Fan Ownership. 

February's quite a quiet month, but that doesn't last long. Half 4 on the last Friday of the month, the interim Board announce the news that absolutely no one was surprised about. Our former Chairman Jacqui Low has returned to take control of the Club, apparently guys like Charan Gill and those 3BC appointed to the Interim Board have suddenly became incapable of Chairing meetings... despite having done so for the last couple of months.

along side this, an announcement that the Club will be meeting with the Working Group to revise the timetable for handover, yet again comes as absolutely no surprise to anyone. i'm going to be honest, i've no idea why there would need to be a revised date for handover.

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely spot on.

The only thing you missed was our saviour who had been a massive fan all his life, somehow managed to attend Firhill all these years without one fan coming out stating “they went to Firhill with him”, or “I used to see him on the North West bus”  or “here’s a picture of us at the 1991 player of the year dance with George Shaw”

This has been spun to hell and I wonder who the spin doctor is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This has been spun to hell and I wonder who the spin doctor is?


I can tell you who it definitely won’t have been - Jacqui Low. She hasn’t been involved with the club in any way until last Friday...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JudgeMudge said:

Big game tomorrow night. What are people thinking for team selection?

Probably thinking they'll put it on the match thread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, thenolly said:

Absolutely spot on.

The only thing you missed was our saviour who had been a massive fan all his life, somehow managed to attend Firhill all these years without one fan coming out stating “they went to Firhill with him”, or “I used to see him on the North West bus”  or “here’s a picture of us at the 1991 player of the year dance with George Shaw”

This has been spun to hell and I wonder who the spin doctor is?

It can't have been Jacqui Low. Whoever has spun this has managed to do so fairly effectively, which immediately means she couldn't have done it.

PR guru in her own mind. Couldn't promote smack to a junkie fs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a more positive note... heard on the radio earlier that McNamara is now home and recovering well.

Fantastic news for him and his family.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears that our new ticketing system is to be this week's shambles. After the game tonight you have to download an app to get in, the current cards will no longer work but you can pick up a new card by calling the office. 

To get the app you need two emails which absolutely no one seems to have received both of. 

Why change this mid season to cause maximum confusion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...