The Partick Thistle thread

[Fuctifano]

Think there's a slight bit of revision of history going on re: Barton, he played many games in midfield last season and was fine (one of the replies to the tweet below has him playing 17 at the back and 11 in midfield), although I'd imagine in almost all of the midfield games last season he had Osman beside him which he hasn't this year. But yes, he's been guff in midfield this year and likewise as part of a back 4.

My main problem with 3-5-2 and the balance of the squad is it only really leaves the position behind the strikers available for one of Lawless, Erksine, Spittal, and Edwards. With the form most of them are in at the moment that's not such an issue. I haven't seen anything in McCarthy at all to suggest he's an improvement on what we have in midfield, though that's probably due to the level of opposition he's facing.

[Nightmare]

12 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

Think there's a slight bit of revision of history going on re: Barton, he played many games in midfield last season and was fine (one of the replies to the tweet below has him playing 17 at the back and 11 in midfield), although I'd imagine in almost all of the midfield games last season he had Osman beside him which he hasn't this year. But yes, he's been guff in midfield this year and likewise as part of a back 4.

My main problem with 3-5-2 and the balance of the squad is it only really leaves the position behind the strikers available for one of Lawless, Erksine, Spittal, and Edwards. With the form most of them are in at the moment that's not such an issue. I haven't seen anything in McCarthy at all to suggest he's an improvement on what we have in midfield, though that's probably due to the level of opposition he's facing.

Right now, are we really missing much if only 1 of them is playing?

Lawless and Erskine have been miles off their usual level this season. Apart from a really good performance at CP in the Cup just there, Erskine has been pish for months. Has he actually had a good performance in a league game this season? Lawless I'd be willing to give some leeway to as he's been shunted into all sorts of positions to cover our injuries this year, but when he's been in an attacking position, he's still not been up to his usual standards. Spittal is Spittal and we all know what we're getting there; excellent set pieces and hiding the rest of the time.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Nightmare

[Fuctifano]

8 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Right now, are we really missing much if only 1 of them is playing?

Lawless and Erskine have been miles off their usual level this season. Apart from a really good performance at CP in the Cup just there, Erskine has been pish for months. Has he actually had a good performance in a league game this season? Lawless I'd be willing to give some leeway to as he's been shunted into all sorts of positions to cover our injuries this year, but when he's been in an attacking position, he's still not been up to his usual standards. Spittal is Spittal and we all know what we're getting there; excellent set pieces and hiding the rest of the time.

Yeah, that's what I said in the sentence after the one you quoted 

[Nightmare]

Just now, Fuctifano said:

Yeah, that's what I said in the sentence after the one you quoted 

You know, I actually highlighted that bit because I was going to say that I think that's probably got a lot to do with us reverting back to the 4-2-3-1 when the 3-5-2 was actually working pretty well. Archie has his favourites, and with good reason, Erskine, Lawless and Edwards are all players he's loyal to. To only be able to start 1 of them every week probably isn't ideal in his mind.

Then I got distracted, came back to the computer and made a completely different point to the one I'd originally intended to make. Still right, though. 

[cilitbang]

cba digging out my old posts but i've long been pissed off over the gametime that McCarthy in particular and Penrice get. Archie treats OF games as write offs so throws in the kids. The only "backfire" to this has been that McCarthy has always stepped up! The things that McCarthy needs to improve on (like cynical fouls and positioning) can only be learned through gametime. We were crying out for a CM 1st 1/2 of this season yet McCarthy didn't get a look in, we shoe-horned Edwards and Barton into roles they weren't familiar (or good at). Would the results have been much different if we persisted with a young McCarthy? I think marginally yes, but more importantly, he would have gained 1/2 a season of exp at the top flight. Felt bad for Penrice when he got benched to put Muzzy on the left for pace reasons against Cadden.

Really hope we don't squander two VERY promising youngsters with lack of gametime... Regardless of where we are next season, I fully expect us to still have 2 ghost CM's in the squad (Banzo and Fraser) and probably go through the same shit again.

*grumbles*

[Nizzy]

Penrice played CM for Livi - I've started viewing him as a potential substitute for Bannigan. He was on the bench on Saturday and could've replaced Woods as the second half wore on. Having a player capable of beating the first man at corners would've been an added bonus.

[GrahamJags]

I have absolutely no qualms with Barton playing in CM, as long as it's beside Osman. Like Fuctifano said above, he was fine there last season, albeit he was better when played in a back three.

The form of our attacking midfielders is primarily what's fucked us for the most part this season. Even with the wing-back situation, I thought Lawless was fine there, and it confused me why Archie would shunt Turnbull out there. Spittal pretty much only plays well in games we dominate, which are few and far between in the league, and is a total passenger against the bigger teams (aside from the second half of the The Rangers game at Firhill earlier in the season). Erskine has been woefully off form for months, and just as Lawless seemed to be coming onto a game again after being moved back into his "proper" position, he got injured. 

McCarthy has more than shown that he deserves a run in the team, in my opinion, rather than the odd game against Celtic. He's a natural successor to Bannigan, as they both have the same ability to bring the ball forward and feed our attacking players (and also the fact that they're both awful tacklers). It was unfortunate that Penrice was on loan when he was, as I think/hope that he would've got a run of games due to our injury situation. I've said before that I'm quite happy for him to play regularly, knowing that he may be prone to some mistakes, but safe in the knowledge that he has the ability to improve, a la Liam Lindsay. The main problem with Penrice, however, is that there seems to be some confusion as to where his best position is, and/or where we're likely to play him. Before sending him on loan, he was a left-back, but now that he has returned after playing well as a left/centre midfielder at Livi, it leaves us with the issue that we have a young player at a key stage of his development, that needs to be playing in his best position.

[the_paulo]

I don't understand Archie's unwillingness to trust McCarthy in particular.  He's shown himself as capable.  Osman and Woods can't play a full 90.  Weird.

 

Archie won't throw Penrice or McCarthy in to the team at this stage unless everyone in the squad plus the office staff are incapacitated. 

[Nightmare]

90 minutes for Christie tonight in the U20s. With any luck we'll have him back in the first team in the next couple of weeks.

In typical Thistle fashion, the lads lost 1-0 to a Celtic goal in the 89th minute.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Nightmare

[Fuctifano]

Archie said in the match preview if he came through tonight with no problems then he'd be in the squad for next week. Which only leaves Bannigan as injured, Fraser has played the last few dev squad games as well (and nearly ran me over on Queen St yesterday)

[cilitbang]

Since it was Friday I was thinking all things Thistle at work today and with the constant lapses in concentration when closing out games etc.

Would it make much difference if JHS fans were in the Colin Weir stand, OR, the dugouts were infront of the JHS? (except OF games). When <player x> is clearly blowing out his arse and Archie has enough of us prompting him/bringing it to his attention. He might make these subs a bit quicker rather than be stubborn or just leave it too late. That, and issues like shouting at the whole team to push out so we're not defending on the 18yard line with 20mins to go..

Or maybe Archie is quite happy with Thistle fans not being behind him being backseat managers?

*gets on the tinfoil hat*

[jagfox]

7 minutes ago, cilitbang said:

Since it was Friday I was thinking all things Thistle at work today and with the constant lapses in concentration when closing out games etc.

Would it make much difference if JHS fans were in the Colin Weir stand, OR, the dugouts were infront of the JHS? (except OF games). When <player x> is clearly blowing out his arse and Archie has enough of us prompting him/bringing it to his attention. He might make these subs a bit quicker rather than be stubborn or just leave it too late. That, and issues like shouting at the whole team to push out so we're not defending on the 18yard line with 20mins to go..

Or maybe Archie is quite happy with Thistle fans not being behind him being backseat managers?

*gets on the tinfoil hat*

I think you're correct that the manager is happy ti avoid the fans being regularly behind him. We're a fickle bunch at the best of times.

[cilitbang]

32 minutes ago, jagfox99 said:

I think you're correct that the manager is happy ti avoid the fans being regularly behind him. We're a fickle bunch at the best of times.

Indeed!

However, it is infuriating for me being in the NS and watching the team progressivley retreat. It just invites the opposition to come forward and if they lose it, will be miles away from their own goal - so less pressure. We then get the ball the back, there is no out-ball AND/OR our most attacking player is well before the 1/2 line so would still have atleast 60yards to carry the ball..

And as said in my last post. If a dipshit like me can see someone like Woods is blowing out his arse and we have someone on the bench that can properly replace him, it's proper head scratching stuff when Archie holds off on some subs when killing a game.

Edited February 23, 2018 by cilitbang

[jagfox]

The North Stand is great  (and I've 3 flags on order, looked bare last week from the JHS) but it gives such a 2D impression of the game at times.

Then again your perspective seems spot on despite the vantage point.

Forza Thistle!

[Fuctifano]

I've still no idea why we don't shoot into the NS 2nd half, but I've said this for about 4 years now.

[Cerberus]

13 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

I've still no idea why we don't shoot into the NS 2nd half, but I've said this for about 4 years now.

Freudian Slip for the absolute state of our finishing here.

[Nightmare]

The logic seems to be because shooting towards the city end is the "traditional" thing to do in the second half. Which is stupid because it ignores the fact that traditionally that was the home end, with the away fans in the old north terrace - ergo, it made sense to do so back then.

We've definitely been more of a first half team in the past few years, and I wonder if that has been a factor.

[Reid]

Playing a back 3 without Barton. Bizarre.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

On 19/02/2018 at 22:13, Thistle_do_nicely said:

We've lost 12 points in total from goals on 76+ minutes (Ross County away to draw 1-1 with an 85th min Schalk goal; Motherwell away to draw 1-1 from Ciftci on about 85 mins; Aberdeen at home to go from 3-3 to lose 4-3 through a late Rooney goal; Dorrans goal in the 2-2 against Rangers was on 76 mins according to the OS so that's squeezed in; Hearts phantom Callachan goal in the 1-1 at Firhill on roughly 80 mins; Murray's double for Dundee in the 2-1 on Saturday just there on 85 and 90)

By contrast, by my count we've only salvaged 3 points from goals on 76+ minutes; the late winner against Dundee got us an extra 2 points and the late equaliser at Tynecastle.  Edited to add: I had to check for the sake of my own sanity for the Dundee game because I was sure both goals were in the last 10 mins, but the OS has Edwards goal down as being on the 74th minute. Both these late goals were rendered as being pretty much contra entries by the reverse fixtures tbh. An honourable mention due to Connor Sammon for his late goal against County in the 2-0 win at Firhill, saved a twitchy last few minutes at least.

Netting off our points gained from goals we've scored in 76+ mins against points we've lost from goals conceded on 76+ mins indicates that we've lost 9 points overall.

-

We've lost 20 points from winning positions (! : we led Hibs 1-0 via Erskine first day of the season and lost 3-1, we led Aberdeen 2-1 in the 4-3 loss, we led County 1-0 and drew 1-1, led Rangers 2-1 and drew 2-2 albeit with Erskine's red card mitigating things, 1-0 up to 1-1 against Hearts with the phantom Callaghan goal, 1-0 up on Celtic from the Sammon penalty to lose 2-1, 1-0 to 1-1 against Motherwell through Ciftci, and finally 1-0 to 1-2 against Dundee on Saturday).

By contrast, by my count we've only salvaged 5 points this season from losing positions; we salvaged a draw from Hearts away which sort of balanced out with the home draw against them, came back from 1-0 down to ultimately draw 2-2 against Rangers, and beat Dundee 2-1 at home from 1-0 down, thanks largely to luck and a Cerny pen save... which as per the Hearts game pretty much balanced out in the end.

Netting off the clubs points gained from losing positions vs. the clubs points lost from winning positions, we've chucked away 15 points this season.

I also had a look at our margins of victory and defeat for all wins and losses:

We're now up to 23 points flung away this season from league matches where we've been leading by a goal or more, and 14 points lost from goals on 76+ minutes. It's something you can get away with to an extent if you're also able to battle back when you're losing, but from every single match where we've been a goal or more down away from home in the league this season, we've came back to take a grand total of 1 point. Spineless. Would be nice to support a team like Kilmarnock that aren't complete bottle merchants tbh.

Why does this keep happening? Why hasn't it been fixed? Why are other teams able to come from behind to take points against us but we crumble so often? What's the fucking point?

Edited February 24, 2018 by Thistle_do_nicely

[cilitbang]

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