#BothVotesSNP

[doulikefish]

Next indy ref should be a doodle,some yoon won 22% of the vote on thursday and has been declared the winner by the press

 

Ps on that note when the tories got wiped out in 97 they won 24% of the vote

[Antlion]

5 years may be to long to wait for some SNP members/supporters who want it far quicker than that,Sturgeon will defo earn her pay in this parliament in managing the indy question from within her own party.

Next phase of the indy chapter,the EU vote.

A sensible post - isn't that more worthwhile? I agree. The last thing Sturgeon should do is now to the minority who want to declare UDI tomorrow. She should bide her time and whilst doing so ensure that her team is building a watertight blueprint for independence. The EU referendum is a sideshow, but a useful one for showing up the hypocrisy of people like Michael Gove who demand that the UK be self-governing for democracy's sake and caution about "close union" whilst staunchly opposing Scotland's independence from the UK union.

[Wee Willie]

Next indy ref should be a doodle,some yoon won 22% of the vote on thursday and has been declared the winner by the press

 

Ps on that note when the tories got wiped out in 97 they won 24% of the vote

I hope Sturgeon has that down in her notes.

Imagine if Ruth stands up in Parliament and says that her party won 22% of the vote and are the opposition.

Then Nicki stands up and says "in 97.... " 

[Jacksgranda]

It's a fact, if they didn't stand in davidsons constituency where they had no chance of winning thesnp would hhave won that seat. thats an undeniable fact, gifting a massive coupe tom the tories and damaging the cause of independence.

 

Did she have an closed top car parade down Princes Street?

[Granny Danger]

If you're interested in that kind of thing then I suggest you get a life.

FTFY

[The Master]

Next indy ref should be a doodle,some yoon won 22% of the vote on thursday and has been declared the winner by the press

Ps on that note when the tories got wiped out in 97 they won 24% of the vote

17.5% in Scotland.

[Mr Bairn]

That would hold true in a democracy. But we're not a democracy. It could be 70/30 in our favour and our odds of winning would still be 0%.

Would you care to elaborate on that comment?

[John Lambies Doos]

Would you care to elaborate on that comment?

I think he means that the establishment and mainstream media will just not allow it to happen?

[sparky88]

It's a fact, if they didn't stand in davidsons constituency where they had no chance of winning thesnp would hhave won that seat.thats an undeniable fact, gifting a massive coupe tom the tories and damaging the cause of independence.

Ruth Davidson winning her seat doesn't mean anything with regards to independence.

[Mr Bairn]

It's a fact, if they didn't stand in davidsons constituency where they had no chance of winning thesnp would hhave won that seat. thats an undeniable fact, gifting a massive coupe tom the tories and damaging the cause of independence.

 

 

The Greens would rather the Tories won Edinburgh Central than the SNP. The Greens would have been in a better position if they'd stood candidates in the Perthshire seats, Moray etc, allowing them to go blue. The SNP losing a few more seats would put the Greens in a great position for influence.

[Savage Henry]

The Greens would rather the Tories won Edinburgh Central than the SNP. The Greens would have been in a better position if they'd stood candidates in the Perthshire seats, Moray etc, allowing them to go blue. The SNP losing a few more seats would put the Greens in a great position for influence.

Forget that, quoted the wrong post.

Safe to say Wings Over Scotland and his acolytes would accuse the Greens of "reckless self interest" for not letting the SNP have things entirely their way.

[Mr Bairn]

Forget that, quoted the wrong post.

Safe to say Wings Over Scotland and his acolytes would accuse the Greens of "reckless self interest" for not letting the SNP have things entirely their way.

 

What the people's reverend tends to forget is that the Scottish Green party's raison d'etre is NOT Scottish independence. The Scottish Green Party exist to promote environmentalism and a more equal society in Scotland, and if the members of the party believed those values were best achieved through remaining in the union then they would support remaining in the union. The party officially says Yes to independence but the likes of Robin Harper was a very strong no voter and wasn't afraid to say so.

 

The Greens don't exist to white knight the SNP and as I've said elsewhere it's very much in their interest that the Tories take a few seats off the SNP and give them a reason to have to bargain with the Greens. The Greens won't mindlessly prop up Nicola Sturgeon for the sake of it in the next five years, they'll vote with her on occasion and the price of doing so will be some concessions from their own manifesto. They aren't going to get a 60p tax rate but they could persuade the SNP to get tougher on fracking and get some elements of their land reform stuff.

[Ad Lib]

What the people's reverend tends to forget is that the Scottish Green party's raison d'etre is NOT Scottish independence. The Scottish Green Party exist to promote environmentalism and a more equal society in Scotland, and if the members of the party believed those values were best achieved through remaining in the union then they would support remaining in the union. The party officially says Yes to independence but the likes of Robin Harper was a very strong no voter and wasn't afraid to say so.

 

The Greens don't exist to white knight the SNP and as I've said elsewhere it's very much in their interest that the Tories take a few seats off the SNP and give them a reason to have to bargain with the Greens. The Greens won't mindlessly prop up Nicola Sturgeon for the sake of it in the next five years, they'll vote with her on occasion and the price of doing so will be some concessions from their own manifesto. They aren't going to get a 60p tax rate but they could persuade the SNP to get tougher on fracking and get some elements of their land reform stuff.

I don't think you understand what white knighting is.

[Mr Bairn]

I don't think you understand what white knighting is.

 

Huh?

[Savage Henry]

What the people's reverend tends to forget is that the Scottish Green party's raison d'etre is NOT Scottish independence. The Scottish Green Party exist to promote environmentalism and a more equal society in Scotland, and if the members of the party believed those values were best achieved through remaining in the union then they would support remaining in the union. The party officially says Yes to independence but the likes of Robin Harper was a very strong no voter and wasn't afraid to say so.

The Greens don't exist to white knight the SNP and as I've said elsewhere it's very much in their interest that the Tories take a few seats off the SNP and give them a reason to have to bargain with the Greens. The Greens won't mindlessly prop up Nicola Sturgeon for the sake of it in the next five years, they'll vote with her on occasion and the price of doing so will be some concessions from their own manifesto. They aren't going to get a 60p tax rate but they could persuade the SNP to get tougher on fracking and get some elements of their land reform stuff.

Well, the "Rev" is only a fan of democracy so long as at it suits his own raison d'être - which may or may not include his own ego. The man is completely incapable of accepting that Yes is a minority view, and it doesn't actually matter to him which parties detract from that. It's almost as if he thinks the louder he yells at clouds, the more likely independence is. He seems unwilling to accept that people don't always vote the way he tells us to. From his house in Bath. Also, he's batshit mental.

I actually think your first paragraph could represent much of the Scottish left. Hence they become the target of the ire of the Yes lunatic fringe.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Well, the "Rev" is only a fan of democracy so long as at it suits his own raison d'être - which may or may not include his own ego. The man is completely incapable of accepting that Yes is a minority view, and it doesn't actually matter to him which parties detract from that. It's almost as if he thinks the louder he yells at clouds, the more likely independence is. He seems unwilling to accept that people don't always vote the way he tells us to. From his house in Bath. Also, he's batshit mental.

I actually think your first paragraph could represent much of the Scottish left. Hence they become the target of the ire of the Yes lunatic fringe.

Absolutely this - independence is not the goal of the likes of the SSP and Greens but a vehicle to another goal.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Actually the SNP dropping constituencies will generally work in the Greens' favour.

Splitting the anti-Tory vote further here in Edinburgh Central allowed Ruth Davidson in which freed up a list seat and list seats are currently the real target for the Greens.

They may have missed a trick by not going #bothvotesgreen

[ayrmad]

Absolutely this - independence is not the goal of the likes of the SSP and Greens but a vehicle to another goal.

Both know their other goals can't be reached without independence, The Greens are on a sticky wicket now as far as yessers are concerned.

[Mr Bairn]

Actually the SNP dropping constituencies will generally work in the Greens' favour.

Splitting the anti-Tory vote further here in Edinburgh Central allowed Ruth Davidson in which freed up a list seat and list seats are currently the real target for the Greens.

They may have missed a trick by not going #bothvotesgreen

And even if the Greens don't gain a seat out of it, the SNP being further away from 65 increases the extent to which they'll have to make concessions to the Greens to get some votes from them.

A dream election for Patrick Harvie would've been something like the SNP getting 55 seats and the Greens getting 10

[topcat(The most tip top)]

And even if the Greens don't gain a seat out of it, the SNP being further away from 65 increases the extent to which they'll have to make concessions to the Greens to get some votes from them.

A dream election for Patrick Harvie would've been something like the SNP getting 55 seats and the Greens getting 10

 

With Scottish politics being as fractured as it is and the hybrid electoral system being as mathematically unstable as it is there are always going to be unintended consequences.

The massive effort by Conservatives in Edinburgh Pentlands to get David McLetchie elected in 2003 for example simply meant that he didn't need to take a list seat which freed one up for Colin Fox of the SSP who somehow forgot to thank the Range Rover drivers of Colinton for making it possible for the people of the Lothians to be represented by a barely reconstructed  Trotskyite

 

Given the chaotic nature of the system it's probably best to just try and get as many votes as possible in both ballots and hope for the best as opposed to attempting to second guess the finer details of what outcome will shake down out of the final result.