cb_diamond Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I know this has been mentioned before but it boggles my mind that Wilson was a defender who played at such a good level. The lack of drilling of our defenders to do the very basics is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroyedByMadness Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Remove at least 10 obvious goals that Rohan has cost and at least 10 that the dodgy defence has cost and we'd be looking at a reasonable season. That's all on the poor strategy and lack of proper coaching and analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I don't know about that. As I've pointed out I'm no fan of Wilson by any means, however the main contributing factor is simply lack of ability in defence. Replace Ferguson, Boateng/Mensing and Gorman with Parry, Crighton and Lithgow I think we'd have finished 2nd. That's nothing to do with coaching, it's just better players for this level. Are either of those goals yesterday Wilson's fault? First one 100% no, second one if we're at the stage where we can't play a simple pass back to the keeper who then punts it first time up the park we may as well pack up. Banged on about it all season but recruitment is almost everything, our recruitment at the back was terrible and we've paid the price for it. As I've also gone on about numerous times, the known quantities of the likes of Crighton and Lithgow for at least one more season, who have now both been promoted twice from this league, would have made such a difference (also in helping Ferguson) during a transitional period, but the club messed up, anyway I'll let it go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroyedByMadness Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said: I don't know about that. As I've pointed out I'm no fan of Wilson by any means, however the main contributing factor is simply lack of ability in defence. Replace Ferguson, Boateng/Mensing and Gorman with Parry, Crighton and Lithgow I think we'd have finished 2nd. That's nothing to do with coaching, it's just better players for this level. Are either of those goals yesterday Wilson's fault? First one 100% no, second one if we're at the stage where we can't play a simple pass back to the keeper who then punts it first time up the park we may as well pack up. Banged on about it all season but recruitment is almost everything, our recruitment at the back was terrible and we've paid the price for it. As I've also gone on about numerous times, the known quantities of the likes of Crighton and Lithgow for at least one more season, who have now both been promoted twice from this league, would have made such a difference (also in helping Ferguson) during a transitional period, but the club messed up, anyway I'll let it go! Crighton I could've put up with and 100% definitely Parry but I personally couldn't stomach the sex offender under any circumstances. Your point is still valid with Parry and Crighton, no one would argue that. Keeping O'Neill and either Cadden or Cox would have enhanced things further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroyedByMadness Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 On 15/04/2017 at 20:43, Cooper81 said: I wouldn't call it pointless a fan is highlighting he felt McBride was a better manager and is backing it up with stats which are factual. They were less stats, more like facts and figures. You can prove anything facts. R+W's method of using instincts and blind prejudice is far more robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 27 minutes ago, DestroyedByMadness said: They were less stats, more like facts and figures. You can prove anything facts. R+W's method of using instincts and blind prejudice is far more robust. DBM where do you think we would be if 1 - McB stayed in charge 2- if he had been given the money its cost to get rid of him and spent on the radio team to buy the CB & CM he wanted to get at beginning of season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroyedByMadness Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 23 minutes ago, Yoda8 said: DBM where do you think we would be if 1 - McB stayed in charge Challenging 23 minutes ago, Yoda8 said: 2- if he had been given the money its cost to get rid of him and spent on the radio team to buy the CB & CM he wanted to get at beginning of season Much better shape - but it couldn't have happened as we were already snookered by King and Woleki's gross incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroyedByMadness Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I have given hard data to show Dalziel's incompetence. I can easily show it compared to crowds to show what he cost us. We could do a lot worse than get Young, Stark, McMinn and Hamilton in from the Rovers as they will be available in 4 weeks. We need to stop the rot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, DestroyedByMadness said: I have given hard data to show Dalziel's incompetence. I can easily show it compared to crowds to show what he cost us. We could do a lot worse than get Young, Stark, McMinn and Hamilton in from the Rovers as they will be available in 4 weeks. We need to stop the rot. I'm not convinced by them either. Theyre below us in league albeit part time but they've never played any decent style of football. Granted they would lose less goals but that would be at a cost of watching negative football with defence sitting in. They've also spent more than us and are below us in league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Even if we got rid of the radio pundits do you think TW would bring a full back room staff with him? Surely Young & Stark would be enough? An experienced assistant was what both McBride & Wilson could both have done with . Stark would have been a perfect fit I'd imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesadilla Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, DestroyedByMadness said: Challenging As much as I agree with a lot you say, I can't agree with that at all. McBride had a run of equally shit results, and shit football, until he was placed under pressure and the team started playing for him. They started to run to him when a goal was scored. The rumours on twitter started a month before he was sacked. The games McBride got out the players was more of a reaction to one of their own getting sacked than McBride being a manager. I say all that, but it was wrong to replace him with this bunch. I put my cards on the table early doors. Bollan's football was shite, but if we are to replace him, lets do it with somebody better. We went with Black/King. Lots thought that was an inspired move. I didn't. After they got found out we have the Dalziel/Wilson experiment, this time I was in the majority who thought "what the f**k?". We're a full time team with the joint worst goals against record in the professional game, a part time and an amateur team sit above us in the table.It's not going to get better. TW's recruitment policy needs to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Pesadilla said: As much as I agree with a lot you say, I can't agree with that at all. McBride had a run of equally shit results, and shit football, until he was placed under pressure and the team started playing for him. They started to run to him when a goal was scored. The rumours on twitter started a month before he was sacked. The games McBride got out the players was more of a reaction to one of their own getting sacked than McBride being a manager. I say all that, but it was wrong to replace him with this bunch. I put my cards on the table early doors. Bollan's football was shite, but if we are to replace him, lets do it with somebody better. We went with Black/King. Lots thought that was an inspired move. I didn't. After they got found out we have the Dalziel/Wilson experiment, this time I was in the majority who thought "what the f**k?". We're a full time team with the joint worst goals against record in the professional game, a part time and an amateur team sit above us in the table.It's not going to get better. TW's recruitment policy needs to be better. Agree with recruitment from TW but I though McB recruitment was overall decent. The rumours were down to the fact that it was common knowledge that McB wouldn't allow GD to go on his training pitch, have say in picking team whilst sitting on Radio Clyde. The players backed him wholeheartedly and rightly so. After Peterhead defeat he asked fans to direct abuse at him not the young players. That for me earned a lot of respect given he was a very young manager. I'd imagine it would have earned him a lot of respect from players.Compare and contrast that with Wilson who wants all blame diverted to players. You may disagree whether he made a good manager but can't disagree that he was spot on with Dalziel. I would have liked to have seen TW back him rather than sack him especially as the money it cost to pay him off and hire 2 replacements could have went on the player he needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesadilla Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Yoda8 said: Agree with recruitment from TW but I though McB recruitment was overall decent. The rumours were down to the fact that it was common knowledge that McB wouldn't allow GD to go on his training pitch, have say in picking team whilst sitting on Radio Clyde. The players backed him wholeheartedly and rightly so. After Peterhead defeat he asked fans to direct abuse at him not the young players. That for me earned a lot of respect given he was a very young manager. I'd imagine it would have earned him a lot of respect from players.Compare and contrast that with Wilson who wants all blame diverted to players. You may disagree whether he made a good manager but can't disagree that he was spot on with Dalziel. I would have liked to have seen TW back him rather than sack him especially as the money it cost to pay him off and hire 2 replacements could have went on the player he needed Yep. But we'd not be challenging, which was my assertion. The players, collectively, either do not have the mentality or are not good enough. McBride, before he was put under pressure, could not get a note out of them, I don't see how he could have got us near Livvy had he more time. Dalziel coming in galvanized the players for McBride. Prior to that it was as awful as the shite we're served now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pesadilla said: Yep. But we'd not be challenging, which was my assertion. The players, collectively, either do not have the mentality or are not good enough. McBride, before he was put under pressure, could not get a note out of them, I don't see how he could have got us near Livvy had he more time. Dalziel coming in galvanized the players for McBride. Prior to that it was as awful as the shite we're served now. I'd have to disagree with you there. he was fighting with one hand tied behind his back as couldn't get a CB. It was well known that he wanted Hugo away to free up a huge chunk as he was the best paid player in league. He banished him from first team squad as not good enough. The first thing MW & GD did was pay off Fariah. Had we backed McB by letting him get a CM & CB then we wouldn't have been far away. you are always going to get inconsistency with youngsters but that is the path our owners have chosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesadilla Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Yoda8 said: I'd have to disagree with you there. he was fighting with one hand tied behind his back as couldn't get a CB. It was well known that he wanted Hugo away to free up a huge chunk as he was the best paid player in league. He banished him from first team squad as not good enough. The first thing MW & GD did was pay off Fariah. Had we backed McB by letting him get a CM & CB then we wouldn't have been far away. you are always going to get inconsistency with youngsters but that is the path our owners have chosen Nonsense. You think that banishing Hugo and bringing in A.N.Other would have us near Livvy? We've one quality player this year, and without him we'd be sunk. At no point, whatso-fucking-ever, are we looking like getting near them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Pesadilla said: Nonsense. You think that banishing Hugo and bringing in A.N.Other would have us near Livvy? We've one quality player this year, and without him we'd be sunk. At no point, whatso-fucking-ever, are we looking like getting near them. I'm not saying we'd have wrestled the title away but would have gave them a run for it, and we'd have been assured of playoffs. We had won 4/5 when he was sacked. Hugo was on enough money to bring in 2 decent players add to that we paid off McBride and had to pay MW plus GD have then brought in Hutton and McGregor. Had we gave McB that money then we'd be a lot better off. If you struggle to see that your either deluded , or one of mark wilson or Gordon Dalziel, or both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesadilla Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Yoda8 said: I'm not saying we'd have wrestled the title away but would have gave them a run for it, and we'd have been assured of playoffs. We had won 4/5 when he was sacked. Hugo was on enough money to bring in 2 decent players add to that we paid off McBride and had to pay MW plus GD have then brought in Hutton and McGregor. Had we gave McB that money then we'd be a lot better off. If you struggle to see that your deluded First, how much was Hugo on...and how do you know that? Secondly, I've already explained that McBride wasn't getting a tune from this outfit before he was rumoured to be punted, but you think had he brought in two players we'd be almost 20 points better off? Aye mate I'm deluded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda8 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Pesadilla said: First, how much was Hugo on...and how do you know that? Secondly, I've already explained that McBride wasn't getting a tune from this outfit before he was rumoured to be punted, but you think had he brought in two players we'd be almost 20 points better off? Aye mate I'm deluded... He was on as much as Russell plus a car, flat and A license was being paid for him. All a result of King thinking he was Peter Kenyon He was sacked after 17 points from 11 games. Although it's a poor way of working out where we'd be (there is no real way of knowing or there wouldn't be forums for mugs like us talking at 1:30 am) if we'd continued that we'd be 5 points better off and teams around us would be lower on points as a result. Add to this around £40k of money wasted on McBride payoff GD wage (I'll not count MW as imagine he'll be similar wage) and Hugo, throw this at CB's and a Hutton type player and you'd like to think we'd be at least another 8-10 points better off. Had we beaten Livi then gap would be significantly reduced. All ifs buts and maybes I know but that's what being a fan on a forum is all about. By the same token he could have got us relegated please accept my apology for saying you could have been Dalziel. A low blow that shouldn't be leveled at anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroyedByMadness Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Pesadilla said: As much as I agree with a lot you say, I can't agree with that at all. McBride had a run of equally shit results, and shit football, until he was placed under pressure and the team started playing for him. They started to run to him when a goal was scored. The rumours on twitter started a month before he was sacked. The games McBride got out the players was more of a reaction to one of their own getting sacked than McBride being a manager. Mate, can I clarify AGAIN that I am not in any way pining or rooting for McBride, I was on here every week pointing out massive flaws in his tactics and personnel choices. He started to get it right after the 2-0 Rovers defeat about a fortnight before Dalziel and when taking my advice to get Gorman back in to defence, I pointed out the massive difference in goals conceded thereafter. What I'm saying repeatedly is the exact same as yourself really - we should have replaced McBride with better and I've used facts and figures to prove Dalziel's incompetence. I was asked by Yoda how I think we'd be doing if McBride had gotten better support (better CD and CDM) pre-season and in-season. Remember we weren't far of LIVVY around xmas before our horrific change of style and run of defeats. 7 hours ago, Pesadilla said: I put my cards on the table early doors. Bollan's football was shite, but if we are to replace him, lets do it with somebody better. 2 chances TW had and 2 worsening disasters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waysider Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Playing devil's advocate a bit here. One thing I've noticed from recent posts is a theme which has been current all season. That is statements from posters who seem to know things which you wouldn't expect ordinary punters like us to know. Recent examples are Russell on a huge wage, Faria on the same wage as Russell PLUS a car, McBride defying Dalziel, McBride getting a payout of 40k. Earlier posts this year had everyone and their uncle being offered contracts and then having them whipped away. Do people actually know these things as facts or did they hear it from someone who knows someone whose granny is the tea lady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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