harry94 Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Hi guys. Just been thinking about the draw for the league cup next season as we're at a stage now where although we've got promotions and relegations still to play for, the final league placings are mostly complete. It was mentioned that the tournament will be regionalised and although it hasn't been mentioned, I would be very surprised if we don't see a seeding system in place. Have these details actually been discussed in more detail yet? I was thinking that it'd be along the north/south divide like the Challenge Cup and would have thought that since it's a group stage and it's on TV, they would set up 2 seeding groups. Seeds 1 Dundee Hamilton Inverness Killie Motherwell Partick Thistle Ross County St Johnstone Seeds 2 Dumbarton Dundee United Falkirk Morton Queen of Sth Raith Rovers Rangers /Hibs St Mirren From that, the only way I think it could be done is: North Dundee Inverness Ross County St Johnstone Dundee United Falkirk Raith Rovers Rangers /Hibs Arbroath Brechin Cove Rangers Cowdenbeath Dunfermline East Fife East Stirlingshire Elgin Forfar Montrose Peterhead Stenhousemuir South Hamilton Killie Motherwell Partick Thistle Dumbarton Morton Queen of Sth St Mirren Airdrie Albion Rovers Alloa Annan Ayr Berwick Clyde Edinburgh City Livingston Queen’s Park Stirling Stranraer It becomes a bit awkward there with Rangers/Hibs going north but it seems like there needs to be a switch somewhere. Or would they just collect all the seeds together and do 2 into each group? That'd still require Rangers/Hibs to play north but in future years, it might give a bit more flexibility if the regions lie awkwardly. Is this the right train of thought or will it be something much different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 It's the SPFL so we have no f**king clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Next to nothing has been announced about it AFAICS. All that I can recall being confirmed is (1) the Premiership clubs will be kept apart (however they didn't reckon on the possibility of Hibs not getting promoted plus winning the Scottish Cup: if that happens there'll have to be a section with a pair)... and (2) that there will be some kind of model to "keep distances down", which some people have interpreted as them actually placing neighbouring clubs in specific groups with no draw at all. I'd be surprised at that, since the Premiership seeds will not be evenly distributed; the quality between sections would vary considerably (e.g. compare Angus to Lanarkshire); the teams don't break down into perfect sets of 5; and it'd get boring after a season or two. Assuming that doesn't happen, conceivably there could be 2 regions... or 4... 2 pots... or 3... or 5... who knows. Knockout dates (except Final) aren't known either. In the sections there will presumably also be some kind of schedule, to decide who is home to who and in what order. If I was them and they really want to make games as local as possible I'd have 4 regions with 2 groups in each, e.g. North Seeds - Inverness, Ross County Unseeded - Elgin, Peterhead, Cove, Arbroath, Brechin, Dundee Utd, Forfar, Montrose East Seeds - Dundee, St Johnstone Unseeded - Berwick, Edinburgh City, Hibs, Livingston, Cowdenbeath, Dunfermline, East Fife, Raith South Seeds - Hamilton, Motherwell Unseeded - Albion Rovers, Airdrie, Alloa, East Stirlingshire, Falkirk, Stenhousemuir, Stirling, Clyde West Seeds - Kilmarnock, Partick Unseeded - Ayr, Queen's Park, Annan, Queen of the South, Stranraer, Dumbarton, Morton, St Mirren However there are significant quality variations there, and some of the geographic dividers don't work properly. Maybe just 2 regions like Challenge Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Next to nothing has been announced about it AFAICS. All that I can recall being confirmed is (1) the Premiership clubs will be kept apart (however they didn't reckon on the possibility of Hibs not getting promoted plus winning the Scottish Cup: if that happens there'll have to be a section with a pair)... and (2) that there will be some kind of model to "keep distances down", which some people have interpreted as them actually placing neighbouring clubs in specific groups with no draw at all. I'd be surprised at that, since the Premiership seeds will not be evenly distributed; the quality between sections would vary considerably (e.g. compare Angus to Lanarkshire); the teams don't break down into perfect sets of 5; and it'd get boring after a season or two. Assuming that doesn't happen, conceivably there could be 2 regions... or 4... 2 pots... or 3... or 5... who knows. Knockout dates (except Final) aren't known either. In the sections there will presumably also be some kind of schedule, to decide who is home to who and in what order. If I was them and they really want to make games as local as possible I'd have 4 regions with 2 groups in each, e.g. However there are significant quality variations there, and some of the geographic dividers don't work properly. Maybe just 2 regions like Challenge Cup. Dingwall to Dundee is roughly 130 miles or 3.5 hours by car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 I know - Berwick to Dundee is hardly a short hop either. However the 8 (or 9) Premiership clubs not in Europe aren't evenly distributed over the nation. If you end-up with say Kilmarnock getting relegated but Rangers winning the Scottish Cup then you'll get an even more noticeable skew towards north and east. Ultimately it's unavoidable. Similarly the 'North' group only has 3 full-time clubs - whichever of Ross County or Inverness didn't draw Dundee Utd would virtually have a free run to knockouts - with most unseeded teams hailing from SPFL2. Whereas the 'East' group has 6 full-time clubs and unseeded includes 4 Championship. That would be an argument for having only 2 regions. More regions you have, the less likely it is that the quality factor will even itself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Thankfully, we won't be part of this joke section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur's Seat Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 ^^^ Are you ok mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Why would Dundee and Dundee United be in different regions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 If you divide the 8 seeded Premiership teams into 4 regions in this scenario, and similarly the 32 lower-league teams, they do not entirely match up. To get both Dundee clubs together would entail putting East Fife in with the Highland/Angus teams, or Inverness with the Fife/Lothians teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'd imagine the telly people might want the Dundee clubs in the same section. Maybe just two regions would make more sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadgerTheBadger Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Hibs or Rangers won't be in the group stages due to European involvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Minertaur Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Will be the Betfred Cup next season. Hopefully a decent bit of cash into the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Is there something about Scottish Football in particular that bookmakers like - we've now got Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Is there something about Scottish Football in particular that bookmakers like - we've now got Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred. We're all mad gamblers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I suppose it reflects where the money is in sport sponsorships just now. Go back a few decades and it was all in alcohol - Tennents Scottish Cup, Skol League Cup, Bells League and Challenge Cup (and League Cup briefly), Drybrough Cup, OVD Junior Cup, etc. etc. Now it's bookmakers and pawn shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 But no further basic information as to how they plan to run the organise first round of the tournament? Given that they have secured TV rights and sponsorship you'd have to suspect that we'll be looking at very local, semi-permanent groups - matches like the Dundee (and potentially Ayrshire) derbies being effectively guaranteed. There's no other good explanation as to why the tournament has suddenly found sponsors willing to buy rights weeks in advance for an entirely new format. If so then I can see the new format growing very, very stale beyond a handful of derby matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 How will they choose the telly games? If they pick them all in advance there's a strong likelihood that they'll be showing dead rubbers in the last couple of group matches. If they choose them as they go along it'll be a pain for fans to make travel arrangements with matches moved with a few days notice. I assume they'll just go with the latter option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im_Rodger Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Is there something about Scottish Football in particular that bookmakers like - we've now got Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred. Scotland gambles more on average than the other 3 UK countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Has a date been given for the Group Stage draw yet? Why is it you just know already this half baked shambles will either: - Not happen at all - Be canned after one season Or am I being cynical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 How will they choose the telly games? If they pick them all in advance there's a strong likelihood that they'll be showing dead rubbers in the last couple of group matches. If they choose them as they go along it'll be a pain for fans to make travel arrangements with matches moved with a few days notice. I assume they'll just go with the latter option. The Saturday rounds are the 1st, 3rd and 5th (last). It's unlikely that anything will be decided by the 3rd round, so games up until then will be picked in advance; the 4th round is midweek, so no problems, then the 5th round will possibly kick off at 12.30 across the board to allow any game to be picked. Or, the SFA don't ask UEFA to impose the blackout, allowing games to be shown Saturday 3pm. Which, given it will be the only football on in Scotland that weekend, is substantively no different to all games being 12.30 with one shown live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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