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harry94

League Cup 16/17 Draw

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Hi guys. Just been thinking about the draw for the league cup next season as we're at a stage now where although we've got promotions and relegations still to play for, the final league placings are mostly complete.

 

It was mentioned that the tournament will be regionalised and although it hasn't been mentioned, I would be very surprised if we don't see a seeding system in place. Have these details actually been discussed in more detail yet?

 

I was thinking that it'd be along the north/south divide like the Challenge Cup and would have thought that since it's a group stage and it's on TV, they would set up 2 seeding groups.

 

Seeds 1

 

Dundee
Hamilton
Inverness
Killie
Motherwell
Partick Thistle
Ross County
St Johnstone
 
Seeds 2
 

Dumbarton

Dundee United                

Falkirk                 

Morton

Queen of Sth                    

Raith Rovers                     

Rangers /Hibs     

St Mirren

 

From that, the only way I think it could be done is:

 

North

 

Dundee
Inverness
Ross County
St Johnstone
 

Dundee United                

Falkirk                                   

Raith Rovers                     

Rangers /Hibs

 

Arbroath

Brechin

Cove Rangers

Cowdenbeath

Dunfermline

East Fife

East Stirlingshire

Elgin

Forfar

Montrose

Peterhead

Stenhousemuir

 

South

 
Hamilton
Killie
Motherwell
Partick Thistle
 
 

Dumbarton                            

Morton

Queen of Sth  

St Mirren

 

Airdrie

Albion Rovers

Alloa

Annan

Ayr

Berwick

Clyde

Edinburgh City

Livingston

Queen’s Park

Stirling

Stranraer

 

 

It becomes a bit awkward there with Rangers/Hibs going north but it seems like there needs to be a switch somewhere. Or would they just collect all the seeds together and do 2 into each group? That'd still require Rangers/Hibs to play north but in future years, it might give a bit more flexibility if the regions lie awkwardly.

 

Is this the right train of thought or will it be something much different?

Edited by harry94

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Next to nothing has been announced about it AFAICS.

 

 

All that I can recall being confirmed is (1) the Premiership clubs will be kept apart (however they didn't reckon on the possibility of Hibs not getting promoted plus winning the Scottish Cup: if that happens there'll have to be a section with a pair)... and (2) that there will be some kind of model to "keep distances down", which some people have interpreted as them actually placing neighbouring clubs in specific groups with no draw at all.

 

I'd be surprised at that, since the Premiership seeds will not be evenly distributed; the quality between sections would vary considerably (e.g. compare Angus to Lanarkshire); the teams don't break down into perfect sets of 5; and it'd get boring after a season or two.

 

 

Assuming that doesn't happen, conceivably there could be 2 regions... or 4... 2 pots... or 3... or 5... who knows.

 

Knockout dates (except Final) aren't known either. In the sections there will presumably also be some kind of schedule, to decide who is home to who and in what order.

 

 

 

 

If I was them and they really want to make games as local as possible I'd have 4 regions with 2 groups in each, e.g.

 


North

Seeds - Inverness, Ross County

Unseeded - Elgin, Peterhead, Cove, Arbroath, Brechin, Dundee Utd, Forfar, Montrose

 

East

Seeds - Dundee, St Johnstone

Unseeded - Berwick, Edinburgh City, Hibs, Livingston, Cowdenbeath, Dunfermline, East Fife, Raith

 

South

Seeds - Hamilton, Motherwell

Unseeded - Albion Rovers, Airdrie, Alloa, East Stirlingshire, Falkirk, Stenhousemuir, Stirling, Clyde

 

West

Seeds - Kilmarnock, Partick

Unseeded - Ayr, Queen's Park, Annan, Queen of the South, Stranraer, Dumbarton, Morton, St Mirren

 

However there are significant quality variations there, and some of the geographic dividers don't work properly.

 

Maybe just 2 regions like Challenge Cup.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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Next to nothing has been announced about it AFAICS.

 

 

All that I can recall being confirmed is (1) the Premiership clubs will be kept apart (however they didn't reckon on the possibility of Hibs not getting promoted plus winning the Scottish Cup: if that happens there'll have to be a section with a pair)... and (2) that there will be some kind of model to "keep distances down", which some people have interpreted as them actually placing neighbouring clubs in specific groups with no draw at all.

 

I'd be surprised at that, since the Premiership seeds will not be evenly distributed; the quality between sections would vary considerably (e.g. compare Angus to Lanarkshire); the teams don't break down into perfect sets of 5; and it'd get boring after a season or two.

 

 

Assuming that doesn't happen, conceivably there could be 2 regions... or 4... 2 pots... or 3... or 5... who knows.

 

Knockout dates (except Final) aren't known either. In the sections there will presumably also be some kind of schedule, to decide who is home to who and in what order.

 

 

 

 

If I was them and they really want to make games as local as possible I'd have 4 regions with 2 groups in each, e.g.

 

 

However there are significant quality variations there, and some of the geographic dividers don't work properly.

 

Maybe just 2 regions like Challenge Cup.

Dingwall to Dundee is roughly 130 miles or 3.5 hours by car.

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I know - Berwick to Dundee is hardly a short hop either. However the 8 (or 9) Premiership clubs not in Europe aren't evenly distributed over the nation. If you end-up with say Kilmarnock getting relegated but Rangers winning the Scottish Cup then you'll get an even more noticeable skew towards north and east. Ultimately it's unavoidable.

 

Similarly the 'North' group only has 3 full-time clubs - whichever of Ross County or Inverness didn't draw Dundee Utd would virtually have a free run to knockouts - with most unseeded teams hailing from SPFL2. Whereas the 'East' group has 6 full-time clubs and unseeded includes 4 Championship.

 

 

That would be an argument for having only 2 regions.

 

More regions you have, the less likely it is that the quality factor will even itself out.

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Thankfully, we won't be part of this joke section. greggy.png

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If you divide the 8 seeded Premiership teams into 4 regions in this scenario, and similarly the 32 lower-league teams, they do not entirely match up.

 

To get both Dundee clubs together would entail putting East Fife in with the Highland/Angus teams, or Inverness with the Fife/Lothians teams.

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I'd imagine the telly people might want the Dundee clubs in the same section. Maybe just two regions would make more sense?

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Will be the Betfred Cup next season. Hopefully a decent bit of cash into the game!

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Is there something about Scottish Football in particular that bookmakers like - we've now got Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred.

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Is there something about Scottish Football in particular that bookmakers like - we've now got Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred.

We're all mad gamblers

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I suppose it reflects where the money is in sport sponsorships just now. Go back a few decades and it was all in alcohol - Tennents Scottish Cup, Skol League Cup, Bells League and Challenge Cup (and League Cup briefly), Drybrough Cup, OVD Junior Cup, etc. etc.

 

Now it's bookmakers and pawn shops.

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But no further basic information as to how they plan to run the organise first round of the tournament? Given that they have secured TV rights and sponsorship you'd have to suspect that we'll be looking at very local, semi-permanent groups - matches like the Dundee (and potentially Ayrshire) derbies being effectively guaranteed. There's no other good explanation as to why the tournament has suddenly found sponsors willing to buy rights weeks in advance for an entirely new format.

 

If so then I can see the new format growing very, very stale beyond a handful of derby matches.

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How will they choose the telly games? If they pick them all in advance there's a strong likelihood that they'll be showing dead rubbers in the last couple of group matches. If they choose them as they go along it'll be a pain for fans to make travel arrangements with matches moved with a few days notice.

I assume they'll just go with the latter option.

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Is there something about Scottish Football in particular that bookmakers like - we've now got Ladbrokes, William Hill and Betfred.

Scotland gambles more on average than the other 3 UK countries.

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Has a date been given for the Group Stage draw yet?

Why is it you just know already this half baked shambles will either:

- Not happen at all

- Be canned after one season

Or am I being cynical?

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How will they choose the telly games? If they pick them all in advance there's a strong likelihood that they'll be showing dead rubbers in the last couple of group matches. If they choose them as they go along it'll be a pain for fans to make travel arrangements with matches moved with a few days notice.

I assume they'll just go with the latter option.

The Saturday rounds are the 1st, 3rd and 5th (last). It's unlikely that anything will be decided by the 3rd round, so games up until then will be picked in advance; the 4th round is midweek, so no problems, then the 5th round will possibly kick off at 12.30 across the board to allow any game to be picked.

Or, the SFA don't ask UEFA to impose the blackout, allowing games to be shown Saturday 3pm. Which, given it will be the only football on in Scotland that weekend, is substantively no different to all games being 12.30 with one shown live.

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