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rhliston

Hampden Park has it had its Day ?

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Was listening to the Off the Ball radio programme on BBC Scotland on Saturday regarding whether we should be using Hampden Park for internationals etc due to numerous problems with the ground, such as poor atmosphere, too far away from the pitch, location difficulty in getting to Stadium

Majority of those who responded were in favour of not using Hampden for internationals.

 

Has Hampden Park had its day and should we be thinking of moving internationals away from Hampden and move them around the country like a number of major countries do like Germany, Italy. Spain.

 

We have 2 major grounds in Scotland for football capable of holding between 50 to 60,000 fans, not to mention Murrayfield in Edinburgh which I think holds roundabout 67,000.

 

What are football fans views on the subject.

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Hampden has been managed appallingly, but it is simply absolutely necessary to have it, and also in its location. Difficult to get to....my arse. It has better transport links than Wembley and the Millenium for a start. The only reason some think otherwise is that there's slightly more to do in London or Cardiff for two days, than there is in Glasgow for five hours. Poor atmosphere, not at it's optimum and with a genuine game being played at it. The last truly do-or-die match played there by Scotland was Italy in 2007, where Buffon, Panucci and Pirlo felt it necessary to.applaud and comment on the fervour created. Guys who i think know a thing or two about intimidating venues. Iniesta and Pique might have had the TA cumming in their sporrans over the Spain match, but really all they heard was a few oohs and aahs in a differrnt accent. Ever since, Scotland have been clinging on for life in every tournament, which has turned the atmos from fairly vociferous into a drunken, embarrassing rabble, even when it's full. Domestically, the abuse of the system by 1872-2012 and their liquidation, has left us with a horribly lop sided game, whereby every diddy club are taking turns at winning Cups at Hampden with hordes of weans and carpet-baggers filling the place, so naturally it's not going to be taking the roof down. This is certainly not the fault of the clubs, but there is a certain magic about a bouncing, terrifyingly loud and vociferous Hampden, which in my time ive seen us beat France twice, beat Holland, draw with Germany, and three England games which spread over 20 years isn't a lot, but then again i'm sure Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts Hibs and Dundee Utd, and maybe the neo-Gers too, have witnessed fitting atmospheres and hostilities at the ground worthy of its past. On the seating, yes i'd agree, behind the goals is shit, and there's no reason the North enclosure couldn't have had a higher tier added to make up the capacity, which itself should be a minimum of 60,000.

Cardiff Central station is about a 30 second walk from the Millennium.

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I think it would be a good idea to redevelop Hampden into 64,000 seater ground. I would keep the BT Scotland stand, and try and make the ground a two-tiered modern stadium. Maybe putting a roof on the stadium like the Millenium or the Polish National Stadium would be a good innovation. The top tier could be closed for semi-finals (such as Hibs vs United) were a crowd of less than 35,000 is expected.

Edited by Marr1

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I love Hampden when it is packed for big games, with Spain, Germany, France and Italy being the main ones, but when we play friendlies in front of 20,000 fans it really is soul-less. I don't understand why the SFA can't take these kind of game else where. I mean, play Denmark last week at Tynecastle and the atmosphere would have been 100 times better.

 

The only problem is, with over 30,000 SSC members, we can't afford to take games like Malta, Lithuania, Gibraltar etc to smaller grounds as they wouldn't be able to accommodate them all, but I would actually play them at Celtic Park and Ibrox. The scenes when Maloney scored against Ireland 18 months may be the best I've ever witnessed at a Scotland game.

 

Would I knock it down though? I'm in two minds, I'd hate to see it go but at the same time I'd love to see games played elsewhere.

 

PS the location is great. I can walk home in half an hour so no complaint from me there!! :D

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The idea of voluntarily pumping even more money into the coffers of Rangers and Celtic is entirely unappealing to me, so we need a national stadium of some sort.  Glasgow is the obvious place for that, given that it's the largest population centre.

 

That means we should stick at Hampden, but should also think about some form of redevelopment.

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Rebuild the stands, making them steeper and right on top of the pitch. I'm not a fan of needing binoculars to see what's going on down the other end of the pitch.

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  1. Move the pitch to directly beside the south stand.
  2. Nuke the east and west stands, build two steep kops in their place right by the pitch.
  3. Nuke the north stand as there's now a ~35 yard gap to the pitch, ~replicate the south stand, but with a smaller lower tier than top tier so the capacity can change significantly.

South Stand - 17,000 (~12 lower, ~5 upper)

East Stand - 10,000

West Stand - 10,000

North Stand - 17,000 (~8 lower, ~9 upper)

 

40, 45, 49 and 54k capacities available. Away fans situated in a bottom corner of the South stand.

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Hampden has been managed appallingly, but it is simply absolutely necessary to have it, and also in its location. Difficult to get to....my arse. It has better transport links than Wembley and the Millenium for a start. 

 

Wembley has Wembley Park underground and Wembley stadium overground. 

 

Wembley Park station has 6 platforms which has dedicated direct trains back to central London after the game meaning i have never queued more than 10 minutes to get on a train out of Wembley and usually have a pint in the Euston tap within 40 minutes of the final whistle going at the stadium.

 

What i do like about the train services to Hampden on the outward journey is all the idiots queuing at central for half an hour where Scotrail staff tell them to stand when there are a half dozen empty trains going just as close.

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I've been to Hampden three times this season and twice last week, all three games I've found shit. I'd like us to play our home games at murrayfield and then possibly redevelop hampden

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Lets look it at this from a realistic point of view

People have said for years that they should demolish Hampden and build a new ground........ How much will it cost for a 60000 stadium? Oh £500-700 million. Let me just check with the bank...... nope we are skint. Cant afford it.

Seriously lets be honest. Our long exodus from major tournaments has left the SFA with very little breathing room when it comes to finances. Everything from grassroots to TV deals to league reconstruction attepts are affected by lack of financial muscle.

The biggest problem we have with Hampden is Queen's Park playing on the pitch. A deal needs to be put in place for them to move to Lesser Hampden either permanently or at certain times of the year on order to preserve the pitch for Cups and International games.

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Lets look it at this from a realistic point of view

People have said for years that they should demolish Hampden and build a new ground........ How much will it cost for a 60000 stadium? Oh £500-700 million. Let me just check with the bank...... nope we are skint. Cant afford it.

Seriously lets be honest. Our long exodus from major tournaments has left the SFA with very little breathing room when it comes to finances. Everything from grassroots to TV deals to league reconstruction attepts are affected by lack of financial muscle.

The biggest problem we have with Hampden is Queen's Park playing on the pitch. A deal needs to be put in place for them to move to Lesser Hampden either permanently or at certain times of the year on order to preserve the pitch for Cups and International games.

Regarding the state of the pitch, how come Forthbank which has 2 teams playing on it is looking in much better shape than Hampden ?

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Lets look it at this from a realistic point of view

People have said for years that they should demolish Hampden and build a new ground........ How much will it cost for a 60000 stadium? Oh £500-700 million. Let me just check with the bank...... nope we are skint. Cant afford it.

Seriously lets be honest. Our long exodus from major tournaments has left the SFA with very little breathing room when it comes to finances. Everything from grassroots to TV deals to league reconstruction attepts are affected by lack of financial muscle.

The biggest problem we have with Hampden is Queen's Park playing on the pitch. A deal needs to be put in place for them to move to Lesser Hampden either permanently or at certain times of the year on order to preserve the pitch for Cups and International games.

 

Whether people like it or not, Queen's Park own the stadium and have done since it opened in 1903 so why should we have to make way? Imagine you owned a house and someone told you that you can't live in it at certain times of the year because someone else wants to use it. Would you move out? Of course you wouldn't. Try chucking Rangers and Celtic out of Ibrox and Celtic Park in similar circumstances. No-one would dare but because it's little Queen's Park, it's alright. Queen's already do accommodate cup semi finals etc, eg we're given away games when those games are scheduled. I agree that the pitch is atrocious but it would be a lot better if the company who manage the stadium (Hampden Park Ltd I believe) actually took their responsibilities more seriously and looked after it. I do feel we'd be better served in a more compact home ground but Hampden is our home and we're entitled to be there.

Edited by QPStu

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Whether people like it or not, Queen's Park own the stadium and have done since it opened in 1903 so why should we have to make way? Imagine you owned a house and someone told you that you can't live in it at certain times of the year because someone else wants to use it. Would you move out? Of course you wouldn't. Try chucking Rangers and Celtic out of Ibrox and Celtic Park in similar circumstances. No-one would dare but because it's little Queen's Park, it's alright. Queen's already do accommodate cup semi finals etc, eg we're given away games when those games are scheduled. I agree that the pitch is atrocious but it would be a lot better if the company who manage the stadium (Hampden Park Ltd I believe) actually took their responsibilities more seriously and looked after it. I do feel we'd be better served in a more compact home ground but Hampden is our home and we're entitled to be there.

If you had read my post i stated a deal should be made. i.e. Queen's Park to be payed money for sale of the stadium and redevelopment of Lesser Hampden, or a compensation deal so that a few weeks prior to cup or international games that you play games at Lesser Hampden to protect the pitch.

At no point did i say kick you out of your own home.

But if QP want to play in a 52000 stadium in front of 400 fans then so be it. In 2020 the SFA could just say f**k it and move out and play all internationals and Cup games away from Hampden.

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The biggest problem we have with Hampden is Queen's Park playing on the pitch. A deal needs to be put in place for them to move to Lesser Hampden either permanently or at certain times of the year on order to preserve the pitch for Cups and International games.

Utter pish.  QP play something like 21 games on Hampden in a year.  If a national stadium pitch can't cope with that, then you should be looking elsewhere for the problem.  The real damage is done when the pitch is covered for concerts and not uncovered quickly enough.  Quite often it looks poor at the start of the season when everyone else's pitch is terrific.

 

Edited to add:

A HUGE problem used to be that the SFL and the SFA didn't talk to each other re fixture dates.  It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to schedule QP matches so that there are two clear weeks before bigger games to allow pitch repairs etc, but that was not done.  We might now have the SPFL replacing the SFL, but it's the same this year.  We played at home on Saturday, yet there are three planned games in the next two weeks, plus there was the Scotland game against Denmark....a game that could have been accommodated comfortably at Aberdeen or in Edinburgh.  The SFA should have contacted the SPFL to ask them to reschedule QP's game on Saturday yet didn't.  In the past, QP have always been accommodating when requested to change games, even at short notice.  

 

A bit of planning on behalf of the football authorities shouldn't be beyond anyone...you'd think.  Another reason why we should have one body running our game.

Edited by Hampden Diehard

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Hampden is needed.

 

It would be unacceptable for everyone outwith the OF to play SFs / Finals and internationals at Ibrox or Parkhead. It would be carnage to play OF derby SFs & Finals at Murrayfield (imagine their fans having to share trains, buses and service stations). In any case with the SRU's autumn internationals, 6 Nations matches and Edinburgh Gunners commitments the pitch would quite possibly not cope.

 

 

Clearly there are some problems with the Hampden pitch but I don't believe that expelling Queen's Park is the answer. It's their ground anyway. There could perhaps be some better scheduling of their games (although HampdenDiehard... is the likelihood perhaps that they give you away games on SF and Final weeks to avoid your games getting cancelled? in which case, by definition, you'll be home the week before). Maybe also some investment in this hybrid plastic/grass stuff. As has been noted the SFA - through their subsidiary 'Hampden Park Ltd' - also bear some responsibility as they rent it out for concerts.

 

 

I'm not sure how any rebuild would work. They've already built up to the road on the North Stand, and the South Stand is free-standing.

 

You could square-off the ends - also improving views and proximity to the pitch - but unless you built them bigger than the sides you'd lose capacity.

 

Also who would pay for it, and what happens the next time the country wants to host a major athletics tournament or multi-sport games.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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If you had read my post i stated a deal should be made. i.e. Queen's Park to be payed money for sale of the stadium and redevelopment of Lesser Hampden, or a compensation deal so that a few weeks prior to cup or international games that you play games at Lesser Hampden to protect the pitch.

At no point did i say kick you out of your own home.

But if QP want to play in a 52000 stadium in front of 400 fans then so be it. In 2020 the SFA could just say f**k it and move out and play all internationals and Cup games away from Hampden.

 

As Hampden Diehard eludes to, the problem has nothing to do with Queen's Park playing there. We don't train on the pitch and only play on it an average of twice a month for 9.5 months a year, hardly overuse.  The condition of the pitch has everything to do with Hampden Park Limited and their failure to maintain it properly. Someone told me at Saturday's Queen's game that there isn't a full time groundsman. If this is true, it's appalling. Surely employing a groundsman would be cheaper than constantly having to rip up and relay the pitch? It's false economy. rhliston makes a great point about Forthbank having two teams playing there and the pitch being in better condition than Hampden. Queen's are not the problem.

 

Anyway, back on topic, has Hampden had its day? In its present form, maybe. The north, west and east stands are out of sync with the south stand, not surprising given they were built years apart. I agree that the west and east stands are too far away from the pitch. I was in the east for the Commonwealth athletics and couldn't see a thing at the other end. Ideally I'd keep the south and rebuild the others and try to get the capacity up to 60 odd thousand. I'd be happy with that. Funding it is another matter.

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I'm not sure how any rebuild would work. They've already built up to the road on the North Stand, and the South Stand is free-standing.

 

You could square-off the ends - also improving views and proximity to the pitch - but unless you built them bigger than the sides you'd lose capacity.

 

 

  1. Move the pitch to directly beside the south stand.
  2. Nuke the east and west stands, build two steep kops in their place right by the pitch.
  3. Nuke the north stand as there's now a ~35 yard gap to the pitch, ~replicate the south stand, but with a smaller lower tier than top tier so the capacity can change significantly.

South Stand - 17,000 (~12 lower, ~5 upper)

East Stand - 10,000

West Stand - 10,000

North Stand - 17,000 (~8 lower, ~9 upper)

 

40, 45, 49 and 54k capacities available. Away fans situated in a bottom corner of the South stand.

 

 

;)

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Hampden’s transport links are awful for anyone out with Glasgow, try negotiating the M8 in rush hour on supporters buses for midweek games. That said, I don’t think it’s a big enough issue to warrant moving the national stadium into the middle of nowhere, the much vaunted “next to the M9 near Stirling†suggestion.

Three sides of Hampden undoubtedly need replacing. The stadium is sitting on a large parcel of land but of course there was no opportunity to move the South Stand back 50 yards into the car park to create more space for an enlarged North Stand, that would have required a complete rebuild, that said there is plenty of scope to square off both ends into a two tier construction to match the South Stand and remove the track. That, along with moving the pitch closer to the South Stand should provide more wiggle room for something to be done to the North. I see no reason why 55,000/60,000 cannot be achieved.

However, as intimated above, where is the money going to come from? Well I guess if the SFA/QP don’t ask, they’ll never get. Scottish Govt involvement might be required. The chance was there with the CWG, put we went with the cheap option and a lick of paint.

Pitch? A hybrid pitch costs £1.2m, Murrayfield has one and can handle plenty of rugby matches and still remain in top condition. QP playing there isn’t really the problem and if it is, as has been said, fixture scheduling can help avoid heavy use prior to big matches.

Edited by Burnie_man

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