Panama tax evasion

[Ad Lib]

good backtracking.

I'm not backtracking. I sarcastically used the word "shocker" to convey that this "revelation" was nothing of the sort.

Of course the rich and highly paid are extensively using Caribbean-based corporate structures to minimise their income, capital gains and corporation tax liabilities. If you can afford to hire a semi-competent accountant to manage your affairs, it would be more surprising if doing that hadn't been seriously discussed.

[Peppino Impastato]

I'm not backtracking. I sarcastically used the word "shocker" to convey that this "revelation" was nothing of the sort.

Of course the rich and highly paid are extensively using Caribbean-based corporate structures to minimise their income, capital gains and corporation tax liabilities. If you can afford to hire a semi-competent accountant to manage your affairs, it would be more surprising if doing that hadn't been seriously discussed.

sure thing champ, you've got morals oozing out of every pore

[Ad Lib]

sure thing champ, you've got morals oozing out of every pore

I don't think aggressive tax avoidance is immoral. It's amoral.

Clearly tax evasion is immoral. It's also illegal.

If the Western world don't like the fact that Caribbean islands provide tax haven status for profits and income they have more than the adequate military and diplomatic power to force those countries to change their tax laws.

[welshbairn]

I don't think aggressive tax avoidance is immoral. It's amoral.

You're amoral.

[Peppino Impastato]

I don't think aggressive tax avoidance is immoral. It's amoral.

Clearly tax evasion is immoral. It's also illegal.

If the Western world don't like the fact that Caribbean islands provide tax haven status for profits and income they have more than the adequate military and diplomatic power to force those countries to change their tax laws.

aggressive tax avoidance is a new term similar to collateral damage to act as a euphemism and distort the facts. It's simply tax evasion we can't prosecute yet. Both are immoral.

The Western world is too simplistic and inaccurate a term, it's people and leaders want different things. The people want these loopholes closed, the people who could do that use them to enrich themselves. Can you see an impasse there even through your blinkered Eyes?

Therefore your whatabouttery is misplaced. And you are amoral.

[Ad Lib]

aggressive tax avoidance is a new term similar to collateral damage to act as a euphemism and distort the facts. It's simply tax evasion we can't prosecute yet. Both are immoral. The Western world is too simplistic and inaccurate a term, it's people and leaders want different things. The people want these loopholes closed, the people who could do that use them to enrich themselves. Can you see an impasse there even through your blinkered Eyes? Therefore your whatabouttery is misplaced. And you are amoral.

Tax evasion is definitionally illegal. If you can't prosecute someone by reason of the fact it's not illegal then its definitionally not evasion.

If you can't prosecute them for a different reason, like insufficient proof because of secrecy laws, but they have in fact broken the law, that is tax evasion and not aggressive tax avoidance. The word aggressive does not relate to activities which are or were intended to be illegal. It distinguishes elaborate and extensive legal exposition of one or more tax codes to minimise liability from deliberate and conventional means of limiting tax liability like the use of an ISA or making maximum use of other conventional business or personal tax reliefs.

[Wee Willie]

aggressive tax avoidance is a new term similar to collateral damage to act as a euphemism and distort the facts. It's simply tax evasion we can't prosecute yet. Both are immoral. The Western world is too simplistic and inaccurate a term, it's people and leaders want different things. The people want these loopholes closed, the people who could do that use them to enrich themselves. Can you see an impasse there even through your blinkered Eyes? Therefore your whatabouttery is misplaced. And you are amoral.

 

Guid point.

[NotThePars]

Just because something isn't exactly shocking doesn't mean we shouldn't be jumping all over actual legit proof.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Pep making an arse of himself (yet again).

[Ad Lib]

Just because something isn't exactly shocking doesn't mean we shouldn't be jumping all over actual legit proof.

Proof of what though? As far as I understand it almost all of this "exposé" relates to legal activity.

[Peppino Impastato]

Tax evasion is definitionally illegal. If you can't prosecute someone by reason of the fact it's not illegal then its definitionally not evasion.

If you can't prosecute them for a different reason, like insufficient proof because of secrecy laws, but they have in fact broken the law, that is tax evasion and not aggressive tax avoidance. The word aggressive does not relate to activities which are or were intended to be illegal. It distinguishes elaborate and extensive legal exposition of one or more tax codes to minimise liability from deliberate and conventional means of limiting tax liability like the use of an ISA or making maximum use of other conventional business or personal tax reliefs.

Yeah no suitsherlock , we were discussing the morality of the two not legality, I already acknowledged in my post avoidance isn't illegal.

[strichener]

Tax evasion is definitionally illegal. If you can't prosecute someone by reason of the fact it's not illegal then its definitionally not evasion.

If you can't prosecute them for a different reason, like insufficient proof because of secrecy laws, but they have in fact broken the law, that is tax evasion and not aggressive tax avoidance. The word aggressive does not relate to activities which are or were intended to be illegal. It distinguishes elaborate and extensive legal exposition of one or more tax codes to minimise liability from deliberate and conventional means of limiting tax liability like the use of an ISA or making maximum use of other conventional business or personal tax reliefs.

The reality of this revelation is the extent to which people will go to hide their ownership of assets.  This is evasion.

[Ad Lib]

Yeah no suitsherlock , we were discussing the morality of the two not legality, I already acknowledged in my post avoidance isn't illegal.

But tax avoidance, aggressive or otherwise, isn't immoral.

[Ad Lib]

The reality of this revelation is the extent to which people will go to hide their ownership of assets. This is evasion.

No this doesn't follow. There are many perfectly legitimate reasons people can have for wanting their assets and business affairs to attract higher levels of secrecy which don't relate as such to misinforming or concealing the minimum accurate information necessary to establish their legal tax liability.

[welshbairn]

Tax evasion is definitionally illegal. If you can't prosecute someone by reason of the fact it's not illegal then its definitionally not evasion.

If you can't prosecute them for a different reason, like insufficient proof because of secrecy laws, but they have in fact broken the law, that is tax evasion and not aggressive tax avoidance. The word aggressive does not relate to activities which are or were intended to be illegal. It distinguishes elaborate and extensive legal exposition of one or more tax codes to minimise liability from deliberate and conventional means of limiting tax liability like the use of an ISA or making maximum use of other conventional business or personal tax reliefs.

When people with power to influence tax laws are exploiting loop holes in them you have to question their morality, especially as these vehicles are only available to the wealthy. And ISAs are nothing like hiding your money offshore.

[strichener]

No this doesn't follow. There are many perfectly legitimate reasons people can have for wanting their assets and business affairs to attract higher levels of secrecy which don't relate as such to misinforming or concealing the minimum accurate information necessary to establish their legal tax liability.

If a UK citizen has earned money from offshore and not declared it, then this is tax evasion.

[AUFC90]

Tax evasion is definitionally illegal. If you can't prosecute someone by reason of the fact it's not illegal then its definitionally not evasion.

If you can't prosecute them for a different reason, like insufficient proof because of secrecy laws, but they have in fact broken the law, that is tax evasion and not aggressive tax avoidance. The word aggressive does not relate to activities which are or were intended to be illegal. It distinguishes elaborate and extensive legal exposition of one or more tax codes to minimise liability from deliberate and conventional means of limiting tax liability like the use of an ISA or making maximum use of other conventional business or personal tax reliefs.

Who gives a f**k mate ? You're quite happy with politicians doing whatever the hell they like, we get it. It's that sort of attitude that will see your party compete with UKIP as Scotlands most pointeless party.

[williemillersmoustache]

Proof of what though? As far as I understand it almost all of this "exposé" relates to legal activity.

 

Bit of a redneck for the PM though, getting all worked up about being tough on off-shoring and aggressive tax-avoidance while his Da's fortune is hidden in the BVI's. I wonder if Dave inherited anything from him?

 

I know the idea of hypocrisy as a political news story is an anathema for a LibDem but you don't have to go leaping to their defence anymore, they're not about to offer you another shot at playing government.

[ICTChris]

One of the main launderers of the Brinks Mat robbery used this company to help wash the money from the bullion.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/04/brinks-mat-how-mossack-fonseca-helped-hide-millions

 

“The company itself has not behaved illegally,†Mossack noted, copying the memo to his partner, Ramón Fonseca. “But it could be that the company invested money through bank accounts and properties that was illegitimately sourced.

 

 

"Illegitimately sourced"  

[Wee Willie]

Bit of a redneck for the PM though, getting all worked up about being tough on off-shoring and aggressive tax-avoidance while his Da's fortune is hidden in the BVI's. I wonder if Dave inherited anything from him?

 

I know the idea of hypocrisy as a political news story is an anathema for a LibDem but you don't have to go leaping to their defence anymore, they're not about to offer you another shot at playing government.

Sair yin