port-ton Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Thats not what you said, you said both him and Martial are as good as Benzema. They're not. Well that's not what I said but you make a compelling argument against the thing no one has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Well that's not what I said but you make a compelling argument against the thing no one has said. That's exactly what you said, you said they were 'more than capable of filling his boots' ie they're as good as he is and will have the same impact. That is patently not true, I am also capable of filling his boots as is Terry Wogan but that doesn't mean they would do as good a job. France are inevitably weakened by him missing out. You also said you don't think it will affect their chances of winning, which is an entirely different point (though also untrue if you lose a great player and replace him with a lesser one your chances obviously decline). But they are not 'more than capable of filling his boots' quite clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port-ton Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 That's exactly what you said, you said they were 'more than capable of filling his boots' ie they're as good as he is and will have the same impact. That is patently not true, I am also capable of filling his boots as is Terry Wogan but that doesn't mean they would do as good a job. France are inevitably weakened by him missing out. You also said you don't think it will affect their chances of winning, which is an entirely different point (though also untrue if you lose a great player and replace him with a lesser one your chances obviously decline). But they are not 'more than capable of filling his boots' quite clearly. They may be weakened by him not being there, but when the replacement is better than most countries starting strikers then that player is more than capable of filling in for him. If Benzema was never a footballer and Griezmann was their first choice striker then France would still have one of the best strikers in Europe so clearly he can fill Benzema's boots at the tournament. That's not even taking into consideration that most of the squad probably hate Benzema so having him in the squad actually declines France's chances of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 They may be weakened by him not being there, but when the replacement is better than most countries starting strikers then that player is more than capable of filling in for him. If Benzema was never a footballer and Griezmann was their first choice striker then France would still have one of the best strikers in Europe so clearly he can fill Benzema's boots at the tournament. That's not even taking into consideration that most of the squad probably hate Benzema so having him in the squad actually declines France's chances of winning. Well its really turning into a pointless argument, but regardless of how good Griezmann is if he isn't as good as Benzema he is not capable of filling Benzema's boots. He may be very good but the team will obviously be worse without him than it is with him. As for dislike you are talking top level professional sport, like doesn't come into it. Many players dislike each other but function very well together as they are top professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_14 Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 As for dislike you are talking top level professional sport, like doesn't come into it. Many players dislike each other but function very well together as they are top professionals. Look at France in a fair few of their campaigns now. Fall outs left right and centre and it completely derails their campaign. Euro 20081) Arsenal team-mates Samir Nasri and William Gallas fall out after Nasri refuses to give up his seat on the French team bus for Thierry Henry. Gallas then criticises Nasri in his book. ----- World Cup 2010 1) Chelsea’s Florent Malouda is axed from France’s opening match for being too aggressive in training. Coach Raymond Domenech leaves the winger out after he ignores pleas from captain Patrice Evra to calm down. 2) Nicolas Anelka launches foul-mouthed tirade against Domenech after the coach criticises him for straying out of position during the goalless first half of their 2-0 Group A defeat by Mexico. 3) French players boycott training in support of Anelka who was sent home for refusing to apologise to Domenech. The players had stormed off the training pitch after Evra rowed with fitness coach Robert Duverne. The team returns home in disgrace after coming bottom of their group. ----- Euro 2012 1) Hatem Ben Arfa has stand-up row with coach Laurent Blanc after 2-0 defeat by Sweden denies the chance to avoid Spain quarter-finals. "Yes, things got a bit heated," admits Blanc. 2) Nasri in expletive-filled attack on French journalist after he asks the Manchester City player for his opinion on France’s 2-0 Euro 2012 defeat by Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I hope they win tomorrow night against the Dutch, that will set the English media hype train, which has been pretty non existent since the world cup disaster, into overdrive, and we'll have a few months of hearing about how they're the best thing since sliced bread making their inevitable QF defeat on a penalty shootout absolutely hilarious. Having said that, I'm actually a bit of an England sympathiser this year. With us Hibsing it yet again it just feels a bit spiteful now and I'm sure the fans down south get a good laugh at us being all ABE when we can't even qualify. I would like to see all of the home nations do well, and I think having Wales and the two Ireland's qualify makes me want to see them all do well including England. I think their best chance is to go 4-4-2 with Vardy dropping off Kane when they don't have the ball. Sure it's outdated but football is a cyclical sport and 4-2-3-1 has had it's day. For 4-2-3-1 to work you need great wingers and a top class number 10, whereas England have more deep lying wingers and 2 strikers that are better than any number 10 in the squad. They should focus on ball retention because their back line is pretty rancid. Hart Clyne-Stones-Cahill-Rose Wilshere-Dier-Alli-Lallana Vardy Kane Raheem Sterling and the in form Danny Welbeck could be great impact subs. Rooney should be in the 23 but only used in emergencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Hart Clyne-Stones-Cahill-Rose Wilshere-Dier-Alli-Lallana Vardy Kane I hope thats how they line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Look at France in a fair few of their campaigns now. Fall outs left right and centre and it completely derails their campaign. No proof that any of these affected results though, fall outs happen all the time. We're not talking under 11s where one player won't pass to another cause he doesn't like him. I think you'll find fall outs and even punch ups are incredibly common at the top of the game dOmenech was a disaster cause he was an absolute bellpiece who was picking his team by astronomy, fall outs happen you're talking 20 alpha mals in a high stress environment. It happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port-ton Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No proof that any of these affected results though, fall outs happen all the time. We're not talking under 11s where one player won't pass to another cause he doesn't like him. I think you'll find fall outs and even punch ups are incredibly common at the top of the game dOmenech was a disaster cause he was an absolute bellpiece who was picking his team by astronomy, fall outs happen you're talking 20 alpha mals in a high stress environment. It happens all the time. The highly stressful environment of blackmailing one of your teammates isn't exactly the same as someone leaving a foot in in training. There's a reason that Ferdinand and Terry never played in the same England team after Terry was racist to his brother and that Wayne Bridge retired from international football a month after it was revealed that Terry had pumped his wife. You're highly overstating what professionalism is ever expected of human beings, especially footballers who on the whole are some of the most pampered and egotistical people on the planet. There are plenty examples of French, Dutch and Spanish squads failing miserably due to squad disharmony, of course it's going to have an impact when stuck together for over a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No proof that any of these affected results though, fall outs happen all the time. We're not talking under 11s where one player won't pass to another cause he doesn't like him. I think you'll find fall outs and even punch ups are incredibly common at the top of the game Did that not happen in the 2010 World Cup with France, Anelka and Ribery apparently refused to pass the ball to Gourcuff because they hated him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Since about 2002 the French are good for an absolute meltdown when they're tipped to do well but tend to do quite well when the pressures off. 2002 they were the defending world and European champions and went out in the groups without even scoring a goal. It was a bit like what happened to Spain in 2014. First of all they lost 1-0 to a Senegal team that was almost entirely made up of French lower league players, then they drew 0-0 with Uruguay then lost to Denmark. They were also well fancied in South Africa having been drawn in a group with the hosts but again could only manage a 0-0 draw and two defeats. The more unfancied French team of 2006 did fairly well knocking out defending champs Brazil en route to the final and only lost on penalties. If that trend continues expect another meltdown this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Since about 2002 the French are good for an absolute meltdown when they're tipped to do well but tend to do quite well when the pressures off. 2002 they were the defending world and European champions and went out in the groups without even scoring a goal. It was a bit like what happened to Spain in 2014. First of all they lost 1-0 to a Senegal team that was almost entirely made up of French lower league players, then they drew 0-0 with Uruguay then lost to Denmark. They were also well fancied in South Africa having been drawn in a group with the hosts but again could only manage a 0-0 draw and two defeats. The more unfancied French team of 2006 did fairly well knocking out defending champs Brazil en route to the final and only lost on penalties. If that trend continues expect another meltdown this summer. You could also argue they do better in European based finals and struggle on other continents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 You could also argue they do better in European based finals and struggle on other continents? Interesting but they did fairly well in Brazil. I would argue that the quarter final against Germany was the real World Cup final tbh and they only lost 1-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 The highly stressful environment of blackmailing one of your teammates isn't exactly the same as someone leaving a foot in in training. There's a reason that Ferdinand and Terry never played in the same England team after Terry was racist to his brother and that Wayne Bridge retired from international football a month after it was revealed that Terry had pumped his wife. You're highly overstating what professionalism is ever expected of human beings, especially footballers who on the whole are some of the most pampered and egotistical people on the planet. There are plenty examples of French, Dutch and Spanish squads failing miserably due to squad disharmony, of course it's going to have an impact when stuck together for over a month. yeah whatever. I don't think you're not understanding this happens all the time in all teams and these are just theIones you hear about. Top level professional footballers are capable of levels of professionalism people in normal jobs can't even comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Did that not happen in the 2010 World Cup with France, Anelka and Ribery apparently refused to pass the ball to Gourcuff because they hated him? extremely unlikely, possible someone wrote that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port-ton Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 yeah whatever. I don't think you're not understanding this happens all the time in all teams and these are just theIones you hear about. Top level professional footballers are capable of levels of professionalism people in normal jobs can't even comprehend. So why is Benzema banned from the national team and why will he and Valbuena never be in the same squad ever again if things like this happen all the time? If no one ever hears about it then how exactly do you know it happens all the time? Do you have a part time job as a training cone? Even French players like Giroud have came out and said the spirit could be polluted because of the Benzema scandal so obviously even the players think there could be problems due to it. I think I will judge it on the evidence based record I have provided with 100% success rate of players being unwilling to play together when massive life altering situations happen compared to your pie in the sky assumption that people are getting blackmailed and racially abused by their teammates constantly and then kissing them on the pitch when celebrating a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 So why is Benzema banned from the national team and why will he and Valbuena never be in the same squad ever again if things like this happen all the time? If no one ever hears about it then how exactly do you know it happens all the time? Do you have a part time job as a training cone? Even French players like Giroud have came out and said the spirit could be polluted because of the Benzema scandal so obviously even the players think there could be problems due to it. I think I will judge it on the evidence based record I have provided with 100% success rate of players being unwilling to play together when massive life altering situations happen compared to your pie in the sky assumption that people are getting blackmailed and racially abused by their teammates constantly and then kissing them on the pitch when celebrating a goal. well firstly benzema is much better than value name so the normal 9rocedure is Valbuena goes no benzema, W's it bridge or Terry that missed out btw and who was in the wrong there. Secondly this all started because you insisted they would be as good or better without benzema which is patently nonsense. And I know this happens all the time as I know quite a few footballers and live in the real world. Take 20 alpha males put them in close proximity in a high pressure environment this literally happens all the time in every team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_14 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No proof that any of these affected results though, fall outs happen all the time. We're not talking under 11s where one player won't pass to another cause he doesn't like him. I think you'll find fall outs and even punch ups are incredibly common at the top of the game dOmenech was a disaster cause he was an absolute bellpiece who was picking his team by astronomy, fall outs happen you're talking 20 alpha mals in a high stress environment. It happens all the time. Well I disagree with you there, so that's that from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port-ton Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 well firstly benzema is much better than value name so the normal 9rocedure is Valbuena goes no benzema, W's it bridge or Terry that missed out btw and who was in the wrong there. Secondly this all started because you insisted they would be as good or better without benzema which is patently nonsense. And I know this happens all the time as I know quite a few footballers and live in the real world. Take 20 alpha males put them in close proximity in a high pressure environment this literally happens all the time in every team. Wayne Bridge was the one that missed out and John Terry went to that tournament in 2010. Tell me again just how successful that England team was with John Terry in the squad. One win in four games in a group with USA, Algeria, and Slovenia culminating in a humiliating 4-1 loss to Germany. You should ask your men on the inside if that horrific tournament performance had anything to do with squad harmony or not. I said that without Benzema France still have as good a chance as winning the tournament, which is patently true when his replacement is still better than almost every other nation's first choice striker. If the replacement is better than what he's going up against then their tournament isn't exactly going to fall apart without him. I'm glad you're a friend to the stars, but i'm afraid in the real world footballers are still human beings in a working environment who are subject to demotivating factors that effect performance and team morale. Considering you know so much about squad dynamics i thought you would clearly know that in a squad of 20, the chances of all 20 of them being even close to being all alpha males are even slimmer than your chance of grasping the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Wayne Bridge was the one that missed out and John Terry went to that tournament in 2010. Tell me again just how successful that England team was with John Terry in the squad. One win in four games in a group with USA, Algeria, and Slovenia culminating in a humiliating 4-1 loss to Germany. You should ask your men on the inside if that horrific tournament performance had anything to do with squad harmony or not. I said that without Benzema France still have as good a chance as winning the tournament, which is patently true when his replacement is still better than almost every other nation's first choice striker. If the replacement is better than what he's going up against then their tournament isn't exactly going to fall apart without him. I'm glad you're a friend to the stars, but i'm afraid in the real world footballers are still human beings in a working environment who are subject to demotivating factors that effect performance and team morale. Considering you know so much about squad dynamics i thought you would clearly know that in a squad of 20, the chances of all 20 of them being even close to being all alpha males are even slimmer than your chance of grasping the point. the same as they do in most tournaments, made no difference whatsoever. Shute team shite managr group stage exit, noting to do with anything else. They patently don't have as good a chance if they lose one of their best players, it's a very simple point you seem to have extreme difficulty accepting. Again displaying your lack of understanding I picked 20 deliberately as that's about right, there will be 5 that are not. To get to the top of a competitive contact sport like that they're virtually all alpha types to varying degrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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