Scots

[invergowrie arab]

Does The National pepper its articles with Scots? I've only read a couple of articles online and never noticed that

No they huv a dedikated opinion piece fae Matthew Fitt once a week whaur he says somehin bland (this week Scotland is nicer than Syria) but using wurds like edyukashun and bein' inconsistent whaur he is drapping his g's and whaur he is nae drappin' thum. It's a painful read.

[invergowrie arab]

All about politicisation and control. See Sudan, Ukraine, Rangers and Kincardine.

So if something is characterised by being a shite hole housing sectarian violence?

[ScotSquid]

No they huv a dedikated opinion piece fae Matthew Fitt once a week whaur he says somehin bland (this week Scotland is nicer than Syria) but using wurds like edyukashun and bein' inconsistent whaur he is drapping his g's and whaur he is nae drappin' thum. It's a painful read.

Presumably where this Wee Wullie character got the brain wave that's a good idea from then.

[sparky88]

No they huv a dedikated opinion piece fae Matthew Fitt once a week whaur he says somehin bland (this week Scotland is nicer than Syria) but using wurds like edyukashun and bein' inconsistent whaur he is drapping his g's and whaur he is nae drappin' thum. It's a painful read.

Just read that article. I thought he could have done better with generous - jeenorus or something. Just kept it the original English spelling. Poor show

[DeeTillEhDeh]

No they huv a dedikated opinion piece fae Matthew Fitt once a week whaur he says somehin bland (this week Scotland is nicer than Syria) but using wurds like edyukashun and bein' inconsistent whaur he is drapping his g's and whaur he is nae drappin' thum. It's a painful read.

When I first read that column I didn't know whether it was real or a parody.

[ICTChris]

I think the National published an issue where every article was in Scots?

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by ICTChris

[ICTChris]

An article in pidgin Scots by a parody Twitter account.  What a time to be alive.

[Mortar Bored]

I believe Scots is spoken far more widely than the neigh-sayers care to acknowledge.

I'm from a decidedly middle-class background but (modern) Scots, to a degree, was spoken by both my parents and their parents. It was also spoken in every household I visited within my group of friends.

For me, and I admit I am not a linguistics scholar, the difference between a language & dialect is the distinct use of different words as opposed to pronunciation.

The teaching of a few Burns poems isn't promotion of Scots, but it does assist those of us who would like to keep Scots alive, a look back at how we have become more English orientated in our speech and provides the opportunity to reinstate the language into everyday life.

[salmonbuddie]

I believe Scots is spoken far more widely than the neigh-sayers care to acknowledge.

I'm from a decidedly middle-class background but (modern) Scots, to a degree, was spoken by both my parents and their parents. It was also spoken in every household I visited within my group of friends.

For me, and I admit I am not a linguistics scholar, the difference between a language & dialect is the distinct use of different words as opposed to pronunciation.

The teaching of a few Burns poems isn't promotion of Scots, but it does assist those of us who would like to keep Scots alive, a look back at how we have become more English orientated in our speech and provides the opportunity to reinstate the language into everyday life.

 

If that's the case then the argument's won, it's a separate language. The example I like to use is the Norwegian word for vacuum cleaner - not Hoover, it's (pronounced) stoorsooker. Makes perfect sense to me, and to most Scots.

[Jacksgranda]

If that's the case then the argument's won, it's a separate language. The example I like to use is the Norwegian word for vacuum cleaner - not Hoover, it's (pronounced) stoorsooker. Makes perfect sense to me, and to most Scots.

 

That should be the Scots word for vacuum cleaner, never mind the Norwegian.

[vikingTON]

This is utter bollocks.  The essence of learning a language natively is getting to grips with its grammar.  Grammar is implicit rather than something which is codified.  English is the non plus ultra in this regard.

 

No, grammar is codified to a far greater extent in foreign languages than in English. You cannot write or respond correctly in just about any Slavonic language, for example, without an understanding of the specific case structure as well as general ideas such as the subject and object of sentences. 'Native' language learning yields no greater awareness of grammar than native English-speakers' understanding of their own grammar, which beyond an automatic, functional base level, is often non-existent.

[Wilky1878]

Except they don't hear any of these words at home. No one talks like Rabbie Burns these days you know. We have regional slang which changes with time.

Similarly, the English language has changed over the years too and if you go back there was a time they spoke completely different to what you would identify as English today.

Personally, I think the biggest challenge of Scots is the question of what is Scots? As already said in the thread there is no standardisation so there is no real resources to learn the Scots language.

When not in a formal setting I'd say I most definitely speak Scots (or at least a variation of it) and if I met someone from down south of the border and spoke to them the way I normally speak I'd be as well speaking French and throwing in a few token English words. That said I've been told from lots of people that I "use lots of slang" or something to that extent.

I think, first things first we need some sort of standardisation then I think people would realise that actually they do probably speak Scots without even realising rather than what they have always been told is "local dialect" or being told to "speak proper" in schools.

After standardisation you could then have more of a push in educational terms and have a legitimate claim of Scots as either a minority language or the national language (I'd say it probably is already the national language but people are under the assumption that they are speaking local dialect).

Another problem is the fact that Scots (or modern Scots or whatever you'd call the way Scots has developed itself) since the days of Rabbie Burns is very much a spoken language and literature from any modern times is near non-existent (unless you count Scottish twitter which is a language to itself these days) and some words are probably next to never written down and they would need an official spelling associated with it.

I'd love to see a push on Scots though and as has been similarly said their are so many languages in the world that are very similar to one another and probably near interchangeable yet are classed as different languages yet Scots is not.

[The OP]

My grandparents in Shetland spoke Scots or a Scots influenced dialect, I wish I'd learned some in school as half the time I had no idea what the hell they were saying. Scots is certainly more prominent in Shetland than anywhere else I've lived or spent time.

Funny, everyone I've ever spoken to from Shetland and Orkney has an English accent.

[invergowrie arab]

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14376621.West_coast_schools_dominate_The_Herald_s_exam_league_tables/#comments

Where is the Glasgow Mandarin school? Fucking naewhaur!!

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Bumping this up so I can post this

 

Ma pal is studying Scots at uni and needs folk to do a very quick survey if you can. May as well eh? Yer self isolating anyway

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScBkUAQakocSGv7KhHJQn_HNaPcOAk5OAE2Lh45xD6oNBVjFg/viewform?usp=sf_link
 

Go on. Whether ye think it's a language or not ye know ye want a rant about it and get it published in a Dutch university

[welshbairn]

Much better questionnaire than most of these things, doubt mine will be published.  

[Jacksgranda]

44 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Much better questionnaire than most of these things, doubt mine will be published.  

Fit wye nae?

[Jacksgranda]

On 19/03/2016 at 10:23, Mortar Bored said:

I believe Scots is spoken far more widely than the neigh-sayers care to acknowledge.

I'm from a decidedly middle-class background but (modern) Scots, to a degree, was spoken by both my parents and their parents. It was also spoken in every household I visited within my group of friends.

For me, and I admit I am not a linguistics scholar, the difference between a language & dialect is the distinct use of different words as opposed to pronunciation.

The teaching of a few Burns poems isn't promotion of Scots, but it does assist those of us who would like to keep Scots alive, a look back at how we have become more English orientated in our speech and provides the opportunity to reinstate the language into everyday life.

Horses speak English?

[Pet Jeden]

13 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Horses speak English?

Aye, cause they whinny speak French

[Jacksgranda]

Stop trotting out the old jokes.