Ad Lib Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 It my own view is that Scots as a language is like Latin - a dead language that is not spoken day to day - certainly not in terms that Scots 200+ years ago might understand. There seems to be a confusion between what is Scots language and what is no more than regionalised variations of Scots English. Careful now. That's heretical stuff. You'll be accused of being a troll that hates your own country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Careful now. That's heretical stuff. You'll be accused of being a troll that hates your own country. Why is he Italian? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Why is he Italian? The Romans weren't Italians. Edited March 17, 2016 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) The Romans weren't Italians. And the celts weren't scots. What is your point? Where is Latium? Edited March 17, 2016 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 And the celts weren't scots. What is your point? Where is Latium? 21 Berners Street -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 21 Berners Street Very nice indeed btw, or certainly was a couple of years back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 It's my own view that Scots as a language is like Latin - a dead language that is not spoken day to day - certainly not in terms that Scots 200+ years ago might understand. There seems to be a confusion between what is Scots language and what is no more than regionalised variations of Scots English. To be fair, English as it was actually spoken 200-odd years ago is probably very different to what it is today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 To be fair, English as it was actually spoken 200-odd years ago is probably very different to what it is today. The point I making though is that I don't think there is a common spoken Scots language - certainly not day to day. It is much more a feature of literature - quite rightly and should be appreciated so. I wouldn't call, for example the day to day language of a broad Dundonian Scots but a variant on Scots English. From my understanding Scots as it once was was a more homogeneous language than the dialects of Scots English we have today. Yes it should be preserved and celebrated but for what it is and not some plastic artificial status. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 It's remarkable how many Britnats suddenly become deeply concened about modern language teaching, whenever the issue of people in Scotland even acknowledging, never mind teaching the Scots language is raised. Fear for the Welsh with their cul-de-sac of a language tbh - presumably if they ever get politically uppity, the West Britons will immediately squeal for the replacement of that language with a more sensible choice like, erm, Mandarin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arabdownunder Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 There is less difference between, to cite just one example, the Czech and Slovak languages than modern Scots and English. The term 'dialect' is a politically-determined, subjective category rather than an objective, linguistic definition, so you're barking up the wrong tree. This. Back when Yugoslavia was a thing they all spoke Serbo-Croat. Now they speak Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian or Montenegrin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 It's remarkable how many Britnats suddenly become deeply concened about modern language teaching, whenever the issue of people in Scotland even acknowledging, never mind teaching the Scots language is raised. Fear for the Welsh with their cul-de-sac of a language tbh - presumably if they ever get politically uppity, the West Britons will immediately squeal for the replacement of that language with a more sensible choice like, erm, Mandarin. Scots language is important in the right context. No-one is suggesting that there should not be teaching that relates to it. What I won't have those is people dictating that it should be treated like any other language to learn. Personally if we are going to go down that route then let's preserve the one living language we do have in Gaelic and not some pseudo plastic language that no-one can actually agree on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 My eldest daughter is taught about Scots words in primary school, and going on the homework she brings home they also get projects about Scots language. She also hears Scots words at home. My daughter also gets taught Spanish words at school. Learning Spanish or French would probably be more helpful to her in adult life, so I'd prefer the school focused on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 My eldest daughter is taught about Scots words in primary school, and going on the homework she brings home they also get projects about Scots language. She also hears Scots words at home. My daughter also gets taught Spanish words at school. Learning Spanish or French would probably be more helpful to her in adult life, so I'd prefer the school focused on this. What percentage of secondary school pupils studying French or Spanish right now will find it helpful in later life do you think, outside of ordering a couple of beers in a bar in Benidorm? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Scots language is important in the right context. No-one is suggesting that there should not be teaching that relates to it. What I won't have those is people dictating that it should be treated like any other language to learn. Personally if we are going to go down that route then let's preserve the one living language we do have in Gaelic and not some pseudo plastic language that no-one can actually agree on. The majority of us actually speak Scots. Probably easier to keep that alive than to try and re-introduce a language that hardly any of us speak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) What percentage of secondary school pupils studying French or Spanish right now will find it helpful in later life do you think, outside of ordering a couple of beers in a bar in Benidorm?If we do stay in Europe and ultimately want to be more pro-European and take up the advantages of being able to work and live in Europe, then it would make sense to try and teach kids a couple of extra languages.Being bilingual supposedly has educational benefits too. I just think that if we are going to teach kids a language or two, it may as well be ones that have a better chance of being used. I like the fact that my kids learn about Scottish stuff and Scots words, but I wouldn't agree with being 'officially' taught Scots as a language. Edited March 18, 2016 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 If we do stay in Europe and ultimately want to be more pro-European and take up the advantages of being able to work and live in Europe, then it would make sense to try and teach kids a couple of extra languages. Couldn't agree more, but you're still talking about a tiny percentage of kids studying foreign languages today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 What percentage of secondary school pupils studying French or Spanish right now will find it helpful in later life do you think, outside of ordering a couple of beers in a bar in Benidorm?True, but you could just as easily apply that to every subject studied at standard grade level. Even English at that stage isn't learning the language but reading texts that will have little use in later life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Couldn't agree more, but you're still talking about a tiny percentage of kids studying foreign languages today. What is the percentage of Scottish kids learning foreign languages today? I would have thought it would have crept up over the years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 I'm not suggesting we don't teach modern languages. They are a great thing. It broadens the mind, exposes you to different cultures and is generally all round a good thing to do. But I do wonder where all this guff comes from about it being useful in later life comes in. What's the return on investment for something apparently so vital. Even folk like myself who got their higher and can still speak half decent German will say when visiting Germany it is perfectly possible to live in English. Everyone from doctors to gästarbeiten driving taxis will speak in English even if you initiate a conversation in German. I can see the logic in saying it is important that a child is taking French or Spanish. I doubt the reality bears that out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 What is the percentage of Scottish kids learning foreign languages today? I would have thought it would have crept up over the years. Don't all schools teach foreign languages? It may have changed since I was at school but it was one of the core subjects that we had to do up until standard grade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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